Energy for lifting
beatua1
Posts: 98 Member
I am lifting SL5x5 3 days a week and eating at about a 750 cal deficit (I currently am 6'2" 235). Over the last few weeks I have gotten to the point where all 5 lifts in SL5x5 are maximum exertion and I am completely dead by the end. When I say dead I mean it is extremely difficult to do my last few sets (not because of the weight, if I had done them first they would have been manageable) and it is then difficult to then get into my day for the next 30 minutes or so (I lift in the morning).
I also find it difficult to get many carbs. I am trying to stay at a minimum .8g/lb protein and .45g/lb fat. When I do that I am at about 180 g protein and 100 g fat daily. I usually eat between 2000-2200 calories a day depending on how much walking I do during the day. So on days when I eat closer to 2000 calories that mean as low as 100 g carbs and on days when I walk more as much as 150g.
My primary fitness/weight goal is to lose fat while not losing muscle. This is why I am eating a lot of protein and lifting heavy.
I am mostly interested if others experience similar fatigue, and am wondering if anyone has opinions of if I should perhaps back off the deficit or the lifting a bit. Or perhaps I should just keep pushing myself this hard and eventually as I get closer to my goal and I am eating more it will get easier.
Any opinions on which option (or some other course of action) would likely be more beneficial to losing fat while maintaining muscle.
I also find it difficult to get many carbs. I am trying to stay at a minimum .8g/lb protein and .45g/lb fat. When I do that I am at about 180 g protein and 100 g fat daily. I usually eat between 2000-2200 calories a day depending on how much walking I do during the day. So on days when I eat closer to 2000 calories that mean as low as 100 g carbs and on days when I walk more as much as 150g.
My primary fitness/weight goal is to lose fat while not losing muscle. This is why I am eating a lot of protein and lifting heavy.
I am mostly interested if others experience similar fatigue, and am wondering if anyone has opinions of if I should perhaps back off the deficit or the lifting a bit. Or perhaps I should just keep pushing myself this hard and eventually as I get closer to my goal and I am eating more it will get easier.
Any opinions on which option (or some other course of action) would likely be more beneficial to losing fat while maintaining muscle.
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Replies
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Make it a goal to eat more carbs if you need them. Rice, potatoes, oats, fruit, vegetables and sweet treats.
You might have to lessen the caloric deficit to 500 and see if you can handle the last few sets, or take a few days rest or deload.0 -
For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!0 -
Personally, when I'm eating at a deficit I figure I'm doing well to not regress on my lifts. Assuming you're past the newbie gains stage, I'd hold steady or even deload a little as long as you're in deficit -- this is a great time to work on form, range of motion, etc.. And if you're having energy problems, eat some more carbs and less protein (0.8 g / lb is great if you're trying to put on muscle, but it's serious overkill if you're just doing muscle sparing).0
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We're almost the same size and have cut on almost the same exact calorie intake. I recommend a bit of a shift in macros. 100g of carbs is not gonna cut it. When I cut at 2250 calories I was doing something like ~225-250c/~50-75f/~175-200p.
Having said that, a 750cal deficit is going to impact your recovery in the first place. You may need to drop the weight progression or even the sets. I moved to 3x5 within 6 months instead of 5x5. And then to madcow (1x5) after that.
Play with these factors a bit and you'll find a sustainable middle-ground. It takes trial and error.
Having said all that, feeling worn down for 30 minutes after training is normal. I've never not felt that way, whether cutting, maintaining or bulking. If you feel perfectly fine after your training you are probably mailing in your workout. So don't sweat that part too much.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
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Thanks!Personally, when I'm eating at a deficit I figure I'm doing well to not regress on my lifts. Assuming you're past the newbie gains stage, I'd hold steady or even deload a little as long as you're in deficit -- this is a great time to work on form, range of motion, etc.. And if you're having energy problems, eat some more carbs and less protein (0.8 g / lb is great if you're trying to put on muscle, but it's serious overkill if you're just doing muscle sparing).
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nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
He was basically asking if you eat back any calories burned. If you're in a 750 calorie deficit and burn say another 250 lifting then you're in a 1000 cal deficit.0 -
We're almost the same size and have cut on almost the same exact calorie intake. I recommend a bit of a shift in macros. 100g of carbs is not gonna cut it. When I cut at 2250 calories I was doing something like ~225-250c/~50-75f/~175-200p.
Having said that, a 750cal deficit is going to impact your recovery in the first place. You may need to drop the weight progression or even the sets. I moved to 3x5 within 6 months instead of 5x5. And then to madcow (1x5) after that.
Play with these factors a bit and you'll find a sustainable middle-ground. It takes trial and error.
Having said all that, feeling worn down for 30 minutes after training is normal. I've never not felt that way, whether cutting, maintaining or bulking. If you feel perfectly fine after your training you are probably mailing in your workout. So don't sweat that part too much.
Thanks DopeItUp, this is really useful information. Thanks for the really good info. I hadn't even considered going to fewer sets, that is a good idea.
Also, at 50-75 g fat / day I am well less than the .45g / lb recommendation I always read, though I've never actually seen the research that backs up that figure. You don't have any concerns going below that level?0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
He was basically asking if you eat back any calories burned. If you're in a 750 calorie deficit and burn say another 250 lifting then you're in a 1000 cal deficit.
I calculate my TDEE to between 2800 and 3000 calories most days and am eating about 750 less than that which has me eating about 2000-2200 calories per day.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
He was basically asking if you eat back any calories burned. If you're in a 750 calorie deficit and burn say another 250 lifting then you're in a 1000 cal deficit.
I calculate my TDEE to between 2800 and 3000 calories most days and am eating about 750 less than that which has me eating about 2000-2200 calories per day.
Good Good. Like you said, Dope's info is excellent; always is. I too had to move to a 3x5 for cutting.0 -
2200 - 750 - 250 = 1200? No?nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »
2200 - 750 - 250 = 1200? No?nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
Nah, 2200 is after the deficit. TDEE is 2800-3000.0 -
nakedraygun wrote: »
2200 - 750 - 250 = 1200? No?nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
Nah, 2200 is after the deficit. TDEE is 2800-3000.
Math. This is why I stick to design and coffee. Speaking of which... coffee break. I think I need one.nakedraygun wrote: »
2200 - 750 - 250 = 1200? No?nakedraygun wrote: »For the sake of brevity, lets say each SL session burns 250 calories while your cutting another 750 calories from your diet which leaves you a grand total deficit of a 1000.
1000!
1000!
Are you kidding me? This puts you around or under 1200 a day! Increase your calories! Eat a carb or 500!
Eating all the protein in the world isn't going to save the muscle you're burning up. All that muscle atrophy will backfire by lowering your overall metabolism.
Then go lift heavy!
I'm not sure if you read my post at all, but I literally wrote I am eating 2000-2200 calories per day. Not sure how you get to 1000.
Nah, 2200 is after the deficit. TDEE is 2800-3000.
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^ThisWe're almost the same size and have cut on almost the same exact calorie intake. I recommend a bit of a shift in macros. 100g of carbs is not gonna cut it. When I cut at 2250 calories I was doing something like ~225-250c/~50-75f/~175-200p.
Having said that, a 750cal deficit is going to impact your recovery in the first place. You may need to drop the weight progression or even the sets. I moved to 3x5 within 6 months instead of 5x5. And then to madcow (1x5) after that.
Play with these factors a bit and you'll find a sustainable middle-ground. It takes trial and error.
Having said all that, feeling worn down for 30 minutes after training is normal. I've never not felt that way, whether cutting, maintaining or bulking. If you feel perfectly fine after your training you are probably mailing in your workout. So don't sweat that part too much.
Primarily,
~50 grams-75 grams of fat with more carbs.
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How close to the start of your workout do you eat?
And I echo what others are saying, feeling tired to the point of barely functioning after the weight room seems totally normal. More than once I've had to sit in my car until my hands were steady enough to drive.0 -
iplayoutside19 wrote: »How close to the start of your workout do you eat?
This a great question, i should have mentioned it. I usually only have a protein shake before my workout because I work out immediately after I get up in the morning. Maybe if I add some carbs before I work out that could help.0 -
_benjammin wrote: »
^ThisWe're almost the same size and have cut on almost the same exact calorie intake. I recommend a bit of a shift in macros. 100g of carbs is not gonna cut it. When I cut at 2250 calories I was doing something like ~225-250c/~50-75f/~175-200p.
Having said that, a 750cal deficit is going to impact your recovery in the first place. You may need to drop the weight progression or even the sets. I moved to 3x5 within 6 months instead of 5x5. And then to madcow (1x5) after that.
Play with these factors a bit and you'll find a sustainable middle-ground. It takes trial and error.
Having said all that, feeling worn down for 30 minutes after training is normal. I've never not felt that way, whether cutting, maintaining or bulking. If you feel perfectly fine after your training you are probably mailing in your workout. So don't sweat that part too much.
Primarily,
~50 grams-75 grams of fat with more carbs.
Thanks, looks like several think it is fine to drop below the .45g/lb minimum fat recommendation.0 -
iplayoutside19 wrote: »How close to the start of your workout do you eat?
This a great question, i should have mentioned it. I usually only have a protein shake before my workout because I work out immediately after I get up in the morning. Maybe if I add some carbs before I work out that could help.
That might be something you want to experiment with, eating 45-30 before you start. I like to lift (or run or swim) on an empty stomach too. But, if I know I'm going to be trying to extend my envelope I eat something before.
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We're almost the same size and have cut on almost the same exact calorie intake. I recommend a bit of a shift in macros. 100g of carbs is not gonna cut it. When I cut at 2250 calories I was doing something like ~225-250c/~50-75f/~175-200p.
Having said that, a 750cal deficit is going to impact your recovery in the first place. You may need to drop the weight progression or even the sets. I moved to 3x5 within 6 months instead of 5x5. And then to madcow (1x5) after that.
Play with these factors a bit and you'll find a sustainable middle-ground. It takes trial and error.
Having said all that, feeling worn down for 30 minutes after training is normal. I've never not felt that way, whether cutting, maintaining or bulking. If you feel perfectly fine after your training you are probably mailing in your workout. So don't sweat that part too much.
Thanks DopeItUp, this is really useful information. Thanks for the really good info. I hadn't even considered going to fewer sets, that is a good idea.
Also, at 50-75 g fat / day I am well less than the .45g / lb recommendation I always read, though I've never actually seen the research that backs up that figure. You don't have any concerns going below that level?
The general guidelines that I see are usually .35-.45g/lb which is about 75-100g for you (us). It depends on how much of a stickler you want to be I guess. I've found that carbs heavily influence my gym performance so while cutting weight I was willing to push the fat down a little to raise up my carbs. I didn't die so that's good. When I'm not cutting I'm right in that 75-100g range and that's where I am most of the time so it doesn't bother me much. Your mileage may vary.0 -
iplayoutside19 wrote: »How close to the start of your workout do you eat?
This a great question, i should have mentioned it. I usually only have a protein shake before my workout because I work out immediately after I get up in the morning. Maybe if I add some carbs before I work out that could help.
That could be a big thing too. Some people prefer to workout fasted, some people get upset stomachs. But some people (like me) will die if we don't eat before we workout. I actually get the majority of my carbs right before my workout and I feel best that way. I typically take in 100-200g of carbs (or more if bulking) within 2 hours of my workout.
Again, play with these variables. You might find that you end up puking during your workout or you might find that you're a new person in the gym.0 -
Thanks again all, very helpful discussion. I really appreciate all of the good advice.
I'm going to try dropping my fat a bit and eating some carbs in the morning with my protein shake before my workout.0 -
I've seen fat recommendations as low as 0.3 to 0.35 g. No way I could workout out without some carbs...or caffeine.0
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