Cut vs Gain - Introducing exercise while dieting - Help needed
marcae70
Posts: 72 Member
Hello Everyone,
I'm a bit confused about introducing exercise while I'm eating at a calorie deficit. Most weight loss success stories consist of people who cut calories and worked out at the same time. I’m also under the impression that you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You are either cutting, or bulking, not both at the same time.
I weigh myself every day and I know some people are against that, but it really helps me become in tune with my body and learn how certain foods affect me. I was planning on doing a Vinyasa Yoga class tonight so I am expecting a slight gain tomorrow from water weight. I’m just curious if I will be able to gain any muscle from exercising even if my calories are a little low. I’m planning on eating back some of my calories but not all. Can I expect to gain any muscle or will my calorie deficit make it futile?
Should I just get to my goal weight first then start concentrating on building muscle?
Stats:
CW: 127 lbs
GW: 120 lbs
Height: 5'3"
1200 cal/day
60g protein/day
100g fat/day
Thank you for taking the time to read.
P.S. Before you say that a yoga class will not build muscle, trust me, this Vinyasa class is very intense. It requires a lot of strength and dedication to even make it through a class. It's like doing burpees over and over again with poses in between sets. My heart is pounding after a class and I'm sore in the morning!
I'm a bit confused about introducing exercise while I'm eating at a calorie deficit. Most weight loss success stories consist of people who cut calories and worked out at the same time. I’m also under the impression that you cannot build muscle and lose fat at the same time. You are either cutting, or bulking, not both at the same time.
I weigh myself every day and I know some people are against that, but it really helps me become in tune with my body and learn how certain foods affect me. I was planning on doing a Vinyasa Yoga class tonight so I am expecting a slight gain tomorrow from water weight. I’m just curious if I will be able to gain any muscle from exercising even if my calories are a little low. I’m planning on eating back some of my calories but not all. Can I expect to gain any muscle or will my calorie deficit make it futile?
Should I just get to my goal weight first then start concentrating on building muscle?
Stats:
CW: 127 lbs
GW: 120 lbs
Height: 5'3"
1200 cal/day
60g protein/day
100g fat/day
Thank you for taking the time to read.
P.S. Before you say that a yoga class will not build muscle, trust me, this Vinyasa class is very intense. It requires a lot of strength and dedication to even make it through a class. It's like doing burpees over and over again with poses in between sets. My heart is pounding after a class and I'm sore in the morning!
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Replies
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When you are cutting it's more about maintaining the muscle mass you already have. You aren't going to build muscle in a deficit (generally speaking) but you can still condition them to a workload. Your body won't get rid of something it needs, in that if you are working those muscles it wont break them down as an energy source (again generally speaking).
I know what you mean about that kind of class. I took up some classes I initially thought wouldn't build muscle but they so did...the pain lol. It's common on here for people to say certain exercises won't build muscle but it's entirely dependent on what your body is used to.0 -
If you add exercise, you will simply need to eat back those calories you burned to keep at your deficit. Your goal is 1200 calories a day and you do an exercise that burns 300 calories, that's 300 extra calories to eat. You don't want to drop too low below your deficit because that can be harmful to your health. Since your goal is already set to include a deficit, eating back those exercise calories will make sure your body does get the nutrition it needs.
A word of caution, though, if you only use MFP to calculate your burn, eat back about half. MFP is notorious for overestimating calorie burn since it uses averages to calculate it and there are a LOT of variables involved. If you want to be more accurate, get a heart rate monitor and calculate it yourself.0 -
New lifters may be able to add some muscle mass in a deficit. Regardless, as mentioned, strength training will help preserve existing muscle and if lifting is new to you, you can make tremendous strength gains while in a deficit.0
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@_benjammin I've been very sedentary this past year and was eager to my strength back. As i lost weight, it got easier to move around. I felt stronger but didn't know if it was a placebo effect or what. Thanks for your insight.0
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_benjammin wrote: »
I knew that in my head but really needed someone to say it out loud. I used to easily get a lot of protein but seem to be struggling lately. I'll try to eat more chicken and eggs. Thanks!0 -
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That's the exact one I was looking at! How funny
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what is your current body fat %? The range where most females should bulk at is about 18-22%....0
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Be aware the HR-based calorie burn is only valid for steady-state aerobic exercise.
Strength training if done right is no where near steady-state, HR up and down and delayed more on down, and it should be anaerobic.
So the calorie estimate is inflated then.
So that workout is best to manually log for the actual workout time - and database is good on that one, especially Fitbit's where they actually use your resting metabolism to figure the calories, rather than converting to weight-based first like MFP does.
Weights on Fitbit (Strength Training on MFP) is for sets and reps of 5-15 and rests of 2-4 min.
Circuit training on both is for reps 15 - 20 rests up to 1 min.
Calisthenics on both is for reps over 20 and rests below 1 min.
Don't count warm-up/cool-down time, or extra talking or waiting for equipment time, even if it does happen, then it's not as accurate as it could be.
It may seem like smaller calorie burn than equal time cardio - but that's exactly true. So it won't give you much more to eat, but it'll transform the body more. Do extra cardio afterwards if time allows and you want more to eat.0 -
I would also suggest looking into a structured lifting program like strong lifts, strong curves, or all pro beginner routine. Also, just because your "heart is pounding" does not mean you are building muscle. And if you are doing yoga and only eating 1200 calories a day you are not building any appreciable mass.0
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It will be difficult to build muscles doing yoga eating at a deficit. Not that you can't at all, but it will be limited. When building muscle people recommend progressive resistance - essentially your body adapts to what you are doing and you will need to continue to make it harder. Weight lifting it's easy to do that, you just add more weight. For body weight exercises, you can add new variations that making things more difficult (one handed pushups, handstand pushups, etc).
I doubt that the yoga class is designed to progress each week (or even each month) to get progressively harder. You could talk to your teachers about variations to make things harder and incorporate those as the routine you're doing becomes easier.
It's difficult to build muscle at a deficit regardless of what you're doing; that said, do I think it's pointless to do the yoga? No. Could you see better muscle mass definition doing some other form of exercise? Depends. You might see better muscle retention if you lift weights, but if you hate it and don't do it? Not going to help at all.
Bottom line, do what you enjoy. If it doesn't get you where you want to be, reassess when you're closer.0 -
Since you only have 7 lbs to lose you might want to consider recomposition with a very small deficit (250 calories). Even at a slight deficit any resistance training will help you maintain muscle, gain strength and build a good foundation to build muscle. How is your energy level on keto?0
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@auddii I would have said the same thing about yoga two months ago. How can yoga be challenging? Traditional yoga is supposed to be for mediation so I can see your point there. This specific class I am taking is a specialized yoga called Vinyasa and it's crazy. The beauty of this class is that it does differ every day with new positions and the instructor will also change the pace depending on the average skill level of the class. The instructor will also do a basic position for beginners and then move into the advanced version of the pose for more seasoned class members.
I started doing yoga just for fun and it has become a passion. I highly suggest taking a Vinyasa class since it is very challenging and pretty fascinating!
Taking your advice though...once I get to my goal weight I will start lifting weights since that has been my goal from the beginning.0 -
Add exercise. You can build strength whe on a deficit even tho u can it build mass go for it!!0
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Ditto to minimum deficit than, 250, so that yoga can have the best effect possible transforming the body.
The bigger the deficit - the better the resistance training needs to be to counter-balance the deficit.0 -
@auddii I would have said the same thing about yoga two months ago. How can yoga be challenging? Traditional yoga is supposed to be for mediation so I can see your point there. This specific class I am taking is a specialized yoga called Vinyasa and it's crazy. The beauty of this class is that it does differ every day with new positions and the instructor will also change the pace depending on the average skill level of the class. The instructor will also do a basic position for beginners and then move into the advanced version of the pose for more seasoned class members.
I started doing yoga just for fun and it has become a passion. I highly suggest taking a Vinyasa class since it is very challenging and pretty fascinating!
Taking your advice though...once I get to my goal weight I will start lifting weights since that has been my goal from the beginning.
I've taken Vinyasa classes including advances classes and while yes, they are challenging, it's not the type of challenging that allows for the progressive overload needed to build muscle aside from maybe some small noob gains. It's worth doing for sure but I think that it's good that you plan to start lifting because that will make the biggest difference.
ETA: Regardless of the type of exercise, you'll see very little change, muscle wise, at such a deficit.0 -
@Since you only have 7 lbs to lose you might want to consider recomposition with a very small deficit (250 calories). Even at a slight deficit any resistance training will help you maintain muscle, gain strength and build a good foundation to build muscle. How is your energy level on keto?
My energy level is great! The problem most people have is they cheat and have to go through the initiation phase over and over again which kinda sucks but once that first week is out of the way it's smooth sailing.
The only thing is that I'm scared to reduce my deficit since I also am insulin resistant so my BMR is lower than most woman at my height and weight.0 -
@auddii I would have said the same thing about yoga two months ago. How can yoga be challenging? Traditional yoga is supposed to be for mediation so I can see your point there. This specific class I am taking is a specialized yoga called Vinyasa and it's crazy. The beauty of this class is that it does differ every day with new positions and the instructor will also change the pace depending on the average skill level of the class. The instructor will also do a basic position for beginners and then move into the advanced version of the pose for more seasoned class members.
I started doing yoga just for fun and it has become a passion. I highly suggest taking a Vinyasa class since it is very challenging and pretty fascinating!
Taking your advice though...once I get to my goal weight I will start lifting weights since that has been my goal from the beginning.
I've taken Vinyasa classes including advances classes and while yes, they are challenging, it's not the type of challenging that allows for the progressive overload needed to build muscle aside from maybe some small noob gains. It's worth doing for sure but I think that it's good that you plan to start lifting because that will make the biggest difference.
ETA: Regardless of the type of exercise, you'll see very little change, muscle wise, at such a deficit.
Okay, thanks for letting me know! I know I'm not going to gain muscle, I was really just concerned with losing it while at a deficit. Should I get to my goal weight first before lifting?0 -
May be a stupid question, but if your ultimate goal has been to lift weights, what is preventing you that wouldn't prevent you at goal?
I personally started lifting when I was 230lbs, and I'm still at least 30lbs away from my goal. I love lifting (I do realize not everyone feels this way though).0 -
@auddii I would have said the same thing about yoga two months ago. How can yoga be challenging? Traditional yoga is supposed to be for mediation so I can see your point there. This specific class I am taking is a specialized yoga called Vinyasa and it's crazy. The beauty of this class is that it does differ every day with new positions and the instructor will also change the pace depending on the average skill level of the class. The instructor will also do a basic position for beginners and then move into the advanced version of the pose for more seasoned class members.
I started doing yoga just for fun and it has become a passion. I highly suggest taking a Vinyasa class since it is very challenging and pretty fascinating!
Taking your advice though...once I get to my goal weight I will start lifting weights since that has been my goal from the beginning.
I've taken Vinyasa classes including advances classes and while yes, they are challenging, it's not the type of challenging that allows for the progressive overload needed to build muscle aside from maybe some small noob gains. It's worth doing for sure but I think that it's good that you plan to start lifting because that will make the biggest difference.
ETA: Regardless of the type of exercise, you'll see very little change, muscle wise, at such a deficit.
Okay, thanks for letting me know! I know I'm not going to gain muscle, I was really just concerned with losing it while at a deficit. Should I get to my goal weight first before lifting?
I think the sooner the lifting the better. You will retain muscle and can greatly increase your strength even if not adding much muscle while in deficit. Lifting helped my yoga and vice versa.0 -
May be a stupid question, but if your ultimate goal has been to lift weights, what is preventing you that wouldn't prevent you at goal?
I personally started lifting when I was 230lbs, and I'm still at least 30lbs away from my goal. I love lifting (I do realize not everyone feels this way though).
I guess I just want to be at 120lbs and if i'm not eating at a deficit, i'll never get there. In my head, i'f i'm at 120lbs then it will be okay for me to work out and when that number rises on the scale, i'll be okay with it because it will be muscle, not fat.0 -
Start lifting yesterday. Forget the number on the scale, focus on body fat %. I'm willing to bet that you would be happier with the results regardless of whether the scale reads 120 or 125. Push you'll feel like a badas*.0
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May be a stupid question, but if your ultimate goal has been to lift weights, what is preventing you that wouldn't prevent you at goal?
I personally started lifting when I was 230lbs, and I'm still at least 30lbs away from my goal. I love lifting (I do realize not everyone feels this way though).
I guess I just want to be at 120lbs and if i'm not eating at a deficit, i'll never get there. In my head, i'f i'm at 120lbs then it will be okay for me to work out and when that number rises on the scale, i'll be okay with it because it will be muscle, not fat.
instead of focusing on a scale number focus on how you look …120 pound with no muscle is way different than 120 pounds with muscle. ..0 -
@marcae70 - hi, there. the question no one seems to have asked is...what direction do you want to go in? is weight loss/fat burn a priority, or are you looking at a long-term plan to build muscle and attack lifting with a vengeance?
honestly, i don't know if that information necessarily impacts whether or not you should START lifting, because i agree with the others who've said that you should...but if you're primarily focused on reaching your goal weight and then maintaining a degree of physique from there, it'd inform just how heavily you might want to jump into it.
i adopted a similar stance once I accepted the notion that winter was coming and I was gonna have to take my exercise indoors. after i joined the gym, i started doing some rudimentary weight training for the very same reason - to avoid the whole process of burning off muscle, only to have to put it back later. there's a line to be walked, and I doubt that I'm walking it the best possible way, but - I can say that I'm seeing the benefits of both eating at a deficit AND the basic weight training I've been doing, so I'm happy.
as others pointed out, if you plan on jumping in with both feet, you're going to have to make some adjustments to your diet - increase your intake and such - and that will definitely slow your weight loss progress, as you'll need to "fuel" your workouts, and that'll affect the degree to which you can eat at a deficit...and, as such, the degree to which you'll lose weight.
it sounds like you're in a great place, though...less than 10 pounds to your goal weight, and with a lot of motivation. you've totally got this.0 -
I say - do whatever works for you and don't listen to anyone who criticizes you for it.
My husband likes to weigh every day but doing that stresses me out so I don't. And if yoga helps you (I know a lot of people who like it), then do it.
My husband has done the P903. He was burning LOADS of calories. The first time he did this, he didn't adjust for the extra calories he burned and my family thought he looked anorexic. He also said he was hungry. The second time he did it, he actually tracked his activity and noticed he actually could have more food due to the exercise he was doing and still lost weight and felt better.
Track your numbers - burning vs taking in, and watch the data pretty closely. You'll be able to tell from the data how you need to proceed.
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hamptontom wrote: »@marcae70 - hi, there. the question no one seems to have asked is...what direction do you want to go in? is weight loss/fat burn a priority, or are you looking at a long-term plan to build muscle and attack lifting with a vengeance?
honestly, i don't know if that information necessarily impacts whether or not you should START lifting, because i agree with the others who've said that you should...but if you're primarily focused on reaching your goal weight and then maintaining a degree of physique from there, it'd inform just how heavily you might want to jump into it.
i adopted a similar stance once I accepted the notion that winter was coming and I was gonna have to take my exercise indoors. after i joined the gym, i started doing some rudimentary weight training for the very same reason - to avoid the whole process of burning off muscle, only to have to put it back later. there's a line to be walked, and I doubt that I'm walking it the best possible way, but - I can say that I'm seeing the benefits of both eating at a deficit AND the basic weight training I've been doing, so I'm happy.
as others pointed out, if you plan on jumping in with both feet, you're going to have to make some adjustments to your diet - increase your intake and such - and that will definitely slow your weight loss progress, as you'll need to "fuel" your workouts, and that'll affect the degree to which you can eat at a deficit...and, as such, the degree to which you'll lose weight.
it sounds like you're in a great place, though...less than 10 pounds to your goal weight, and with a lot of motivation. you've totally got this.
Thanks for your insight! I guess my goal is to have visible abs? I know that all the muscle in the world would not show when hidden under a layer of fat so I guess i'm just confused on how people lose body fat and gain muscle to achieve that look. I really don't want to spend all my time in the gym if no one can see the results.
Thank you for the encouraging words too. It has taken a lot of work to lose this weight since I am also insulin resistant. I am so close to my goal so I just want to plan out my next steps rationally and realistically. I just want to make sure that what I am doing will have actual results.0 -
I say - do whatever works for you and don't listen to anyone who criticizes you for it.
My husband likes to weigh every day but doing that stresses me out so I don't. And if yoga helps you (I know a lot of people who like it), then do it.
My husband has done the P903. He was burning LOADS of calories. The first time he did this, he didn't adjust for the extra calories he burned and my family thought he looked anorexic. He also said he was hungry. The second time he did it, he actually tracked his activity and noticed he actually could have more food due to the exercise he was doing and still lost weight and felt better.
Track your numbers - burning vs taking in, and watch the data pretty closely. You'll be able to tell from the data how you need to proceed.
Yes, I've upped my calories and will actually try to hit that limit instead of trying to remain even further under. I just bought a fitbit so I should be able to track my calories much more accurately. When you have a lot to lose I feel you have much more wiggle room but when you get down to the wire you have to be very diligent and strict. I'm still trying to find that balance. Thank you for your kind words!0
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