Help with squats

dlm7507

Josh, Happy to read that doing something to help your form is helping you squat. Keep on keeping on.

dlm7507

Relevance comes from your objectives. I'm 65 and want to keep the ability to get a hot water heater on and off the back of my truck by myself, to carry bundles of shingles up a ladder, to do real life tasks that require functional strength. Various front squats, loaded carries, Turkish get-ups, push-ups, pull-ups and such contribute to that, so that's what I do. At this point in my life, neither competitive lifting or body building have appeal.

I'm not saying that back squats are bad. If you want to compete in power lifting, it's a must. I don't need it, but if you like it, go for it. But your remark about my advising someone to not back squat until they can front squat is very misguided. Josh described himself wanting to do something to improve his form so he could squat without injury. He described a form of dysfunction that involved having to bend too far forward to squat. Loading dysfunction is a recipe for disaster. Advising someone to not do regressions designed to teach good form is irresponsible.

The world is full of people who don't think they need to master basics before progressing. You don't often find them still training when they get old.

utahmomof10

dlm7507 wrote: »

Relevance comes from your objectives. I'm 65 and want to keep the ability to get a hot water heater on and off the back of my truck by myself, to carry bundles of shingles up a ladder, to do real life tasks that require functional strength. Various front squats, loaded carries, Turkish get-ups, push-ups, pull-ups and such contribute to that, so that's what I do. At this point in my life, neither competitive lifting or body building have appeal.

I'm not saying that back squats are bad. If you want to compete in power lifting, it's a must. I don't need it, but if you like it, go for it. But your remark about my advising someone to not back squat until they can front squat is very misguided. Josh described himself wanting to do something to improve his form so he could squat without injury. He described a form of dysfunction that involved having to bend too far forward to squat. Loading dysfunction is a recipe for disaster. Advising someone to not do regressions designed to teach good form is irresponsible.

The world is full of people who don't think they need to master basics before progressing. You don't often find them still training when they get old.

I'm a 40-year-old housewife and mother of 10. Body building and competitive lifting are not my reasons for lifting, either, but I have not found that back squats are any less helpful in my functional strength applications than the front squats, and even overhead squats I do.

Josh can correct me if I'm wrong, but his first post did not describe a dysfunction involving having to bend too far forward to squat so much as a misunderstanding (an ignorance, if you will) that bending forward when squatting is NORMAL and NECESSARY for certain types of squats. He didn't specify which type of squat he was doing, which is why the first several responses were asking for a video in order to be more of a help to him on the specific squat he was attempting. Since he was describing that he had to have his stance so wide in order to complete the squat, it sounds to me like he was attempting a back squat, but relying on misguided information about having to be upright and not letting your knees go past your toes in doing so, which would obviously make the back squat very difficult to do correctly. This is why it was recommended that he get some training, so he can be taught and shown that a back squat does, in fact, require leaning forward at the waist with a straight back in order to keep the bar in the proper position relative to the feet and, therefore, avoid injury.

NOBODY is recommending that he not do whatever he needs to do in order to learn correct form. If you actually read my posts, you would see that is EXACTLY what I am recommending. I can almost guarantee that there is nothing wrong with Josh's squat technique that a short training session can't fix, and then he'll be well on his way to successfully squatting to his heart's content.

dlm7507

Well sorry Utah Mom. You probably caught me in a grouchy old man moment. What went into my ear was someone who started in January (a beginner) criticizing the idea of using goblet and front squats to learn to squat (not to mention using words like irrelevant and ignorance). Since he said that it helped him keep his back straight I assume that I guessed what he was asking.

utahmomof10

dlm7507 wrote: »

Well sorry Utah Mom. You probably caught me in a grouchy old man moment. What went into my ear was someone who started in January (a beginner) criticizing the idea of using goblet and front squats to learn to squat (not to mention using words like irrelevant and ignorance). Since he said that it helped him keep his back straight I assume that I guessed what he was asking.

For the record, I've got nothing against front squats. I do more than 100 of them every week. What I take issue with is the notion that one has to learn to do them first in order to squat correctly, since the technique/positioning is different than that of back squats. There is absolutely no reason a person couldn't learn to do them both simultaneously or in reverse order (as I did).

That being said, I think we've done enough damage to Josh's thread - though I do hope our discussion was instructive for him on some level. To each his/her own.

dlm7507

I just posted the link to the goblet squat video because it is what Dan John uses to teach people to squat. A strength coach of his caliber might be worth listening to. (no, I'm not appealing to authority)

utahmomof10

dlm7507 wrote: »

I just posted the link to the goblet squat video because it is what Dan John uses to teach people to squat. A strength coach of his caliber might be worth listening to. (no, I'm not appealing to authority)

And Mark Rippetoe (also a high-caliber strength coach) recommends learning the back squat before the front squat because they are different enough that he wants to eliminate confusion in the new lifter. Every coach/trainer has their personal preference, and one is not necessarily better than the other. Like I said, to each his/her own.

dlm7507

Mark and Dan are friends. I still don't understand your hostility to anything other than your favorite squat. Josh said it helped.

utahmomof10

dlm7507 wrote: »

Mark and Dan are friends. I still don't understand your hostility to anything other than your favorite squat. Josh said it helped.

I'm not being hostile at all. I'm an equal-opportunity squat lover. And I'm done here. Have a great day.

JoshAylward

My initial reference was with regards to the back squats although being a newbie I should of been clearer about the type of squats I'm struggling to perform correctly, however with the use of goblet squats and overhead squats I can see how they help with back squats because of the use of the hips To help with hip mobility and to be able to go low enough.

once again I'm not being the most helpful in not providing a video at this stage but once I can provide one this should help show where my problems are.

Thanks
Josh