For all the vegans out there...

kommodevaran

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.

So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

Traveler120

kommodevaran wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.

So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs? Everybody knows our closest animal relatives are Chimpanzees and Bonobos (we share 99% of DNA). Have you looked at a smiling chimp lately?


Look familiar? It's like looking in the mirror, lol. They're omnivores like us, yes, but how much animal food do they really eat even with their longer canines? 1.4% meat and 4.2% insects. Everything else is plant food. http://www.wildchimps.org/wcf/english/files/chimp4.htm

Compare that to carnivores.

Not even close!

Short story: Yes we're omnivores. We're capable of eating meat. You want to eat lots of meat or little to no meat? Do what you like. Live and let live.

lemurcat12

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.

So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals.

Average macro breakdown in the US is around 50% carbs, 15% protein, and 35% fat. Lots of that fat isn't animal fat, so that's more plants than animals for most people.

lemurcat12

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.

So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs?

I believe kommodevaran was contrasting us with those animals, in that they are carnivores and we are not.

My cat's diet should be very low carb (and the amount of carbs in many commercial cat foods is disturbing). I, however, need not eat a low carb diet, and in fact do well eating lots and lots of plants. (As a human, of course, I am an omnivore.)

kommodevaran

lemurcat12 wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

kommodevaran wrote: »

You can't be a part-time vegan, in much of the same way as you can't be almost pregnant.

I really detest those useless labels, flexitarian, carnivorous, plant-based. Most people eat more plants than animals. Noone eats only meat. Some eat more plants, some eat more meat. We can eat everything that is edible and feel fine. We are ominvores. That is what omnivore means.

So carnivore is a useless label but omnivore is not?

Also, most people(that I know) don't eat more plants than animals. Typical diets involve eggs, butter, bacon, milk, yogurt for breakfast, and meat, fish, chicken for lunch and dinner. If you consider the percentage of calories, it's more of a meat-based diet. And when I was low-carb (which lots of people are), I'd avoid rice, potatoes, grains etc. In a typical meal of a small to medium skinless chicken breast (350 cals) and cauliflower (110 cals/pound), that's 3 times the calories of the veg if I were to eat an entire pound of cauliflower. That's huge. I usually ate half a lb at most in one meal so the ratio would be 6 to 1 in calories ie. meat-based, even though the veg occupied more space.

And just because we're capable of eating everything edible, doesn't mean it's optimal for us. Some of us have lowered cholesterol by eating less animal products. Some doctors like C. Esselstyn use a plant-based diet to reverse heart disease in his patients. Dr. Neal Barnard uses it to reverse diabetes in his patients. The head of American College of Cardiology, Dr. Kim Williams used a vegan diet to lower his cholesterol and recommends it and plant-based diets to his patients as well.

Do what works for you and use whatever label you see fit.

Of course meat and animal products will provide the most calories for most people (who are not vegetarians), because they are more calorie dense. Cutting carbs to that extent we often see today, is not natural, it's a fad. Cholesterol in the blood does not correspond with dietary cholesterol, and any improvement of diet will improve health.

Cats, wolves, and to a lesser extent dogs and bears, are carnivores. Humans' teeth and intestines, plus our evolutionary success, tells us that we can eat anything.

Umm, are you really comparing us to cats, wolves and dogs?

I believe kommodevaran was contrasting us with those animals, in that they are carnivores and we are not.

My cat's diet should be very low carb (and the amount of carbs in many commercial cat foods is disturbing). I, however, need not eat a low carb diet, and in fact do well eating lots and lots of plants. (As a human, of course, I am an omnivore.)

Yes - yes, that was what I did, I think

Thinking about it, it's shocking that cat food contains grains. Cats are true carnivores. I have scars that prove that

kommodevaran

And I do agree that chimpanzees are the animals that are most like us. I also think they'd eat more meat if they were better hunters or farmers, and could cook.

Kalikel

My cat likes to hunt, kill and eat lizards, birds and mice. Heads, eyes, fur, feet, all of it. Generally, she's eating lizards and Fancy Feast, because I don't let her out of the pool cage, but given the choice, she'd choose birds and mice.

That's not how I want to eat. Not like a cat or a monkey or any animal. Because Ick.

the_log_lady

Arguments about our teeth have the wrong end of the stick - were pigs designed to live their entire lives in darkened sheds in stalls where they can't turn around? Were male chicks, the unwanted byproduct of the egg industry, designed to be thrown alive into macerators at a day old? Were dogs designed to be skinned alive? ... yeah, I'll stop ...

the_log_lady

*sheepish smile* I do make a charming dinner guest, meat on the bbq or nay. It is a free country, right?