Addicted to sugar ;(
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LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
My reasoning behind it. . At least this is how it works for me. Treats with sugar (cookies, candy, dessert) switch on cravings for me and I end up craving more and more. With fruits I can have a little and not over indulge. Your analogy although makes a good point is not very accurate.. Fruits are not the same as sugar treats. Fruits have fiber and nutrients such as vitamins. But I could see your point.. fruits do have a lot of sugar and some may have problems over indulging in them just as much as with sweets.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »OP you aren't addicted to sugar, because that's not actually a thing... However, you may have difficulty moderating your intake of certain foods, lots of people struggle with something similar. What a lot of people find helpful is to avoid those trigger foods completely, until you do feel you have better control over them. Then, once your willpower is stronger, you may choose to introduce them again, starting with only eating them if not in the house for example, like going out for ice cream but don't keep gallons of it in the house. Then once you are comfortable with that, maybe try buying single portion containers of the food you struggle with and keep those in the house. A lot of people have learned through building habits such as these that if they stop looking at the food itself as addictive or having power over them, then they are able to learn to enjoy those foods in moderation.
Maybe if you provided more detail of what foods specifically you struggle with (I doubt it is plain white sugar by the spoonful) and what happens when you have these cravings (do you eat till you are physically ill or do you just eat more than you think you should till you exceed you calorie goal), people could provide some more specific advice.
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Thank you for this advice….going to try it.0
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LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?0 -
tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
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Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.0 -
Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
Sugar is a normal part of a diet. It is not a drug so I think you should stop comparing it to a drug. It is okay to eat fruits. Did you totally eliminate all fruits, vegetables, and anything else with sugar from your diet or anything that converts into sugar in your body? I didn't think so. The problem is with processed sweets they aren't the most nutritious and sometime are a trigger food to over indulging, which is why I recommended fruits. Fruits have fiber which may make you feel fuller quicker, they are nutritious, and they don't set off cravings as much which means it is easier to have will power when snacking on them. If someone's Dr did not tell them to avoid ALL fruits, then yes I am recommending them to eat an apple instead of a cookie.0 -
You got the wrong guy. I'm the guy who spent hours writing up a thread explaining why sugar is not a drug and why the people that talk about it activating pleasure centers the same way cocaine does completely fail to understand the neurochemistry going on.LastingChanges wrote: »
Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
Sugar is a normal part of a diet. It is not a drug so I think you should stop comparing it to a drug. It is okay to eat fruits. Did you totally eliminate all fruits, vegetables, and anything else with sugar from your diet or anything that converts into sugar in your body? I didn't think so. The problem is with processed sweets they aren't the most nutritious and sometime are a trigger food to over indulging, which is why I recommended fruits. Fruits have fiber which may make you feel fuller quicker, they are nutritious, and they don't set off cravings as much which means it is easier to have will power when snacking on them. If someone's Dr did not tell them to avoid ALL fruits, then yes I am recommending them to eat an apple instead of a cookie.
My comment is targeting replying to tennisdude's idea that somehow replacing a craving for sugary food with apples is similar to using methadone to handle heroin.
My stance is, if you want a particular sweet food, eat the food in an amount you can work into your daily nutritional goals.0 -
LastingChanges wrote: »
Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
Sugar is a normal part of a diet. It is not a drug so I think you should stop comparing it to a drug. It is okay to eat fruits. Did you totally eliminate all fruits, vegetables, and anything else with sugar from your diet or anything that converts into sugar in your body? I didn't think so. The problem is with processed sweets they aren't the most nutritious and sometime are a trigger food to over indulging, which is why I recommended fruits. Fruits have fiber which may make you feel fuller quicker, they are nutritious, and they don't set off cravings as much which means it is easier to have will power when snacking on them. If someone's Dr did not tell them to avoid ALL fruits, then yes I am recommending them to eat an apple instead of a cookie.
My stance is, if you want a particular sweet food, eat the food in an amount you can work into your daily nutritional goals.
So, Just Do It? Say No to Drugs? Don't overeat sweet foods? I wish it were that easy.
Btw, I did read your linked thread, or at least the first few pages. I can tell you put a lot of work into it and that you are an intelligent man. I just wish there were an equal amount of energy expended on MFP in helping people figure out how to deal with their problems with sugar as there has been in discussing the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the "addiction" label.
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goldthistime wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »
Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
Sugar is a normal part of a diet. It is not a drug so I think you should stop comparing it to a drug. It is okay to eat fruits. Did you totally eliminate all fruits, vegetables, and anything else with sugar from your diet or anything that converts into sugar in your body? I didn't think so. The problem is with processed sweets they aren't the most nutritious and sometime are a trigger food to over indulging, which is why I recommended fruits. Fruits have fiber which may make you feel fuller quicker, they are nutritious, and they don't set off cravings as much which means it is easier to have will power when snacking on them. If someone's Dr did not tell them to avoid ALL fruits, then yes I am recommending them to eat an apple instead of a cookie.
My stance is, if you want a particular sweet food, eat the food in an amount you can work into your daily nutritional goals.
So, Just Do It? Say No to Drugs? Don't overeat sweet foods? I wish it were that easy.
Btw, I did read your linked thread, or at least the first few pages. I can tell you put a lot of work into it and that you are an intelligent man. I just wish there were an equal amount of energy expended on MFP in helping people figure out how to deal with their problems with sugar as there has been in discussing the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the "addiction" label.
it is, just exercise a modicum of self control.0 -
goldthistime wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »
Except the most common sugars in any sugary food is generally going to be sucrose and/or fructose. An apple's sugar is primarily - wait for it - sucrose and fructose. Perhaps we should recommend people drink milk (lactose) when they have a sugar craving, to go all methadone about it.tennisdude2004 wrote: »tennisdude2004 wrote: »LastingChanges wrote: »Eat fruits to satisfy sugar cravings
so a sugar addict should eat more sugar to cure their addiction?? Would you prescribe cocaine to cure a cocaine addiction?
Isn't methadone prescribed to cure heroin addiction?
Is methadone actual heroin?
No but its a similar chemical structure (albeit a synthetic one).
But saying that not all structures of sugar are identical. So comparing sweets and lemons is not always comparing apples for apples.
Sugar is a normal part of a diet. It is not a drug so I think you should stop comparing it to a drug. It is okay to eat fruits. Did you totally eliminate all fruits, vegetables, and anything else with sugar from your diet or anything that converts into sugar in your body? I didn't think so. The problem is with processed sweets they aren't the most nutritious and sometime are a trigger food to over indulging, which is why I recommended fruits. Fruits have fiber which may make you feel fuller quicker, they are nutritious, and they don't set off cravings as much which means it is easier to have will power when snacking on them. If someone's Dr did not tell them to avoid ALL fruits, then yes I am recommending them to eat an apple instead of a cookie.
My stance is, if you want a particular sweet food, eat the food in an amount you can work into your daily nutritional goals.
So, Just Do It? Say No to Drugs? Don't overeat sweet foods? I wish it were that easy.
Btw, I did read your linked thread, or at least the first few pages. I can tell you put a lot of work into it and that you are an intelligent man. I just wish there were an equal amount of energy expended on MFP in helping people figure out how to deal with their problems with sugar as there has been in discussing the appropriateness or inappropriateness of the "addiction" label.
Except moving past calling it an addiction to deny one's own culpability in the matter is part of the process. What productive purpose does calling it an addiction do besides attempt to self-rationalize one's behavior as external and beyond their control, instead of having to deal with the very real dissonance that it is a choice a person makes? Most practical matters of dealing with actual substance abuse addiction are counter to actually dealing with food issues. Most rehab programs practice and preach life long abstinence (something I'm not entirely convinced of, but that's a different discussion) and expect the person to go through a physical detoxing period to remove it from one's system.
Such reasoning makes no sense for sugar. Actually removing sugar from one's system will surely cure you of "addiction" to everything, including air because having no sugar in your body means you're dead. So, now we have to acknowledge, we have to deal with sugar being in the system, and that it will ebb and flow, and that we will never perfectly remove our physical desire for it - we cannot. At that point, I feel the only rational response left is to come to a healthy relation with food. By struggling and trying to purge things from one's diet, one is actually reinforcing the pathways that make food a rewarding substance that acts on dopamine to build anticipation of a reward.
I, in contrast, propose that one removes those kind of cycles. That as one finds the strength to engage in it, that the person eat the foods they feel control them, and to plan to make themselves eat the food in appropriate quantities that fit their nutritional goals. Over time, this will diminish the reward pathways and diminish the viewing of food as a reward. I do not have the hubris to claim it is the only way that works, but I do believe it is the best way, and most long term way to handle food. To do otherwise is to surrender one's control to something else. To me, that prospect is abhorrent, so maybe that is a reason it works for me. Perhaps other people are more willing to say foods are better than them, that food can command them, drive them, uniquely motivate them, and defeat their human willpower, and to them the only way to avoid that is to make place the food perpetually outside of their access.
Not to be all false dichotomy, but which sounds how you think most people want to view their life? Which do you think is a long term strategy for long term compliance?
As for it being that easy? Well losing weight is hard. Being fat is hard. Pick your hard.0 -
I used to use the word addiction, aware that it was an exaggeration, but also aware that it implied sugary treats were more of a challenge for me than for some others. Regardless of what word I use, (compulsion? challenge?), at no time do I completely deny my own culpability. I'm here trying to stay on track, am I not? I just recognize that I can't treat sugary treats the same way I treat other foods and expect to have the same results. You are suggesting that is exactly what I should be doing. By eating small to moderate amounts on a regular basis you believe that my problems with sugary treats will be conquered, is that correct? What makes you believe this?0
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Because by making those things rare, you increase the anticipation. That is the dopamine surge people confuse for addiction. Dopamine is often mistakenly called the reward neurotransmitter, but that is not so. It is the neurotransmitter of anticipating reward.goldthistime wrote: »I used to use the word addiction, aware that it was an exaggeration, but also aware that it implied sugary treats were more of a challenge for me than for some others. Regardless of what word I use, (compulsion? challenge?), at no time do I completely deny my own culpability. I'm here trying to stay on track, am I not? I just recognize that I can't treat sugary treats the same way I treat other foods and expect to have the same results. You are suggesting that is exactly what I should be doing. By eating small to moderate amounts on a regular basis you believe that my problems with sugary treats will be conquered, is that correct? What makes you believe this?
Think of what happens when you win at something continuously - it loses interest and the sense of reward diminishes. Food does not seem any different to me.
I'm not saying you have to eat a kind of treat everyday, but I don't feel one is in a healthy place so long as resisting it is a struggle rather than a matter of simple choices. That is where I feel I am - if I want to eat something, I'm either making it fit or viewing it as a choice to lose weight more slowly. It is about a simple decision like what to wear rather than a mentally challenging dilemma.
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Because by making those things rare, you increase the anticipation. That is the dopamine surge people confuse for addiction. Dopamine is often mistakenly called the reward neurotransmitter, but that is not so. It is the neurotransmitter of anticipating reward.goldthistime wrote: »I used to use the word addiction, aware that it was an exaggeration, but also aware that it implied sugary treats were more of a challenge for me than for some others. Regardless of what word I use, (compulsion? challenge?), at no time do I completely deny my own culpability. I'm here trying to stay on track, am I not? I just recognize that I can't treat sugary treats the same way I treat other foods and expect to have the same results. You are suggesting that is exactly what I should be doing. By eating small to moderate amounts on a regular basis you believe that my problems with sugary treats will be conquered, is that correct? What makes you believe this?
Think of what happens when you win at something continuously - it loses interest and the sense of reward diminishes. Food does not seem any different to me.
I'm not saying you have to eat a kind of treat everyday, but I don't feel one is in a healthy place so long as resisting it is a struggle rather than a matter of simple choices. That is where I feel I am - if I want to eat something, I'm either making it fit or viewing it as a choice to lose weight more slowly. It is about a simple decision like what to wear rather than a mentally challenging dilemma.
I understand the argument that "by making those things rare, you increase the anticipation". I even agree with it. But there is also risk in trying to consume food that we believe to be problematic for us. I've been back on MFP for about two months. I haven't had any irresistible urges during that time. It's been easy. Having a piece of cake might change that.
I just spent some time reading about Moderation Management, a group that gives practical advice (tools you might say) for problem drinkers on how to practice moderation. Interesting stuff. It included things like making a game of riding the craving wave. Pay attention to how your desire increases and then starts to diminish. (No quotes, I'm paraphrasing). Look at your triggers, that kind of stuff. It looked pretty darn interesting. Lots of the advice could easily be adapted to a problem dessert eater like me. But I just finished reading how the founder of the organization killed two people, by driving the wrong way on a one-way highway in a drunken stupor. Abstinence may still be the easier path.0
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