When to Start Direct Arm Work (curls, etc)
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Packerjohn
Posts: 4,855 Member
One of the rules/guidelines at Cressy Performance, one of the top strength and conditioning places in the US:
No direct arm work until you’re able to perform one strict, bodyweight chin-up (women) or five chin-ups (men)
http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/09/gym-etiquette-201/
No direct arm work until you’re able to perform one strict, bodyweight chin-up (women) or five chin-ups (men)
http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/09/gym-etiquette-201/
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Replies
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my god some of those crossfit fails were horrifying0
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Huh, my coach had me start biceps curl to unblock my pull-up. That was the weak link and within 3 weeks I had finally managed my first pull-up. There are exceptions to every rule, lol.0
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That's the most arbitrary rule of thumb I've seen in quite a while. But certainly they're basing it on some form of established science, right?
Right????
Hopefully the science will also explain why I'm not allowed to do triceps work until I can do five pull ups0 -
Strong logic from Cressy Performance
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Curls are THE mandatory beginner exercise. Science has proven it over and over.0
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Why not just concentrate on various compound exercises which work the arms instead of worrying about "direct arm work".
Unless you are an advanced lifter you would be better off with a simple lifting routine.0 -
I can't remember the last time I did direct arm work0
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As mentioned above, focus on compound movements and your arms will have no problems growing. Rows are a great arm exercise, as are dips and any chest press.0
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Why not just concentrate on various compound exercises which work the arms instead of worrying about "direct arm work".
One reason is that outside the gym, the curling movement is fairly common when lifting heavy objects, so it's a valid movement to train. Personally i think it's kinda boring, so i add a shoulder press at the top of the curl.
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That's the most arbitrary rule of thumb I've seen in quite a while. But certainly they're basing it on some form of established science, right?
Right????
Hopefully the science will also explain why I'm not allowed to do triceps work until I can do five pull ups
Author has formal education in exercise science and is co-owner of what is considered on of the top training facilities in the country. Probably had a decent idea of what gets the best results for most people. Also look at the strength and conditioning programs at universities. You won't see much bicep/tricep isolation work in those programs.
If you like the isolation work go for it but most likely you are not being as effective/efficient in your training as you could be.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »That's the most arbitrary rule of thumb I've seen in quite a while. But certainly they're basing it on some form of established science, right?
Right????
Hopefully the science will also explain why I'm not allowed to do triceps work until I can do five pull ups
Author has formal education in exercise science and is co-owner of what is considered on of the top training facilities in the country. Probably had a decent idea of what gets the best results for most people. Also look at the strength and conditioning programs at universities. You won't see much bicep/tricep isolation work in those programs.
If you like the isolation work go for it but most likely you are not being as effective/efficient in your training as you could be.
While he is formally educated and works at a great gym it is not true that you don't see isolation work in top universities. That is why his rule is geared towards beginners. Most university, national, and professional teams do isolation exercises to keep the whole body strong and capable of performing. A great example is that the Chinese and Russian weightlifting teams do curls, as well as other shoulder and isolation arm exercises.
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Packerjohn wrote: »One of the rules/guidelines at Cressy Performance, one of the top strength and conditioning places in the US:
No direct arm work until you’re able to perform one strict, bodyweight chin-up (women) or five chin-ups (men)
http://tonygentilcore.com/2015/09/gym-etiquette-201/
Totally disagree with this.0 -
Do you have to do the chin-up before checking out the dumbbells for curls? Is it like swiping your library card to get a book?0
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You all get the joke, right? That article was only semi-serious. They deal with a lot of younger athletes (esp baseball players), and they are just emphasizing the need to built a solid strength foundation before spending time with accessory isolation work.0
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Packerjohn wrote: »That's the most arbitrary rule of thumb I've seen in quite a while. But certainly they're basing it on some form of established science, right?
Right????
Hopefully the science will also explain why I'm not allowed to do triceps work until I can do five pull ups
Author has formal education in exercise science and is co-owner of what is considered on of the top training facilities in the country. Probably had a decent idea of what gets the best results for most people. Also look at the strength and conditioning programs at universities. You won't see much bicep/tricep isolation work in those programs.
If you like the isolation work go for it but most likely you are not being as effective/efficient in your training as you could be.
While he is formally educated and works at a great gym it is not true that you don't see isolation work in top universities. That is why his rule is geared towards beginners. Most university, national, and professional teams do isolation exercises to keep the whole body strong and capable of performing. A great example is that the Chinese and Russian weightlifting teams do curls, as well as other shoulder and isolation arm exercises.
I would assume the members of the Chinese and Russian weightlifting teams as well as pro and college level athletes can do 5 pull ups.
The general programs for the pro/college teams will usually not include isolation exercises. Sure if someone has a specific issue identified they will program exercises to address that issue.
Agree he is addressing the people with little strength who are enamored with curls and kickbacks.0 -
You all get the joke, right? That article was only semi-serious. They deal with a lot of younger athletes (esp baseball players), and they are just emphasizing the need to built a solid strength foundation before spending time with accessory isolation work.
Of course the article is tongue in cheek, but this has also developed a dogmatic following over the last few years. In large part the following is thanks to guys like Rippetoe and the screaming horde of Crossfitters. I agree beginners would do well to put down the twenty pound dumbbells and work on chin ups, they should also think about leaving the pull downs alone and learning to do pull-ups. But, the idea that isolation exercises offer nothing to the strength and general fitness market is wrong. In particular for injury prevention and injury recovery. People take articles like this and strip the sarcasm and humor from them then use it as a talking point. The picture of the woman doing leg abductors made me laugh.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »That's the most arbitrary rule of thumb I've seen in quite a while. But certainly they're basing it on some form of established science, right?
Right????
Hopefully the science will also explain why I'm not allowed to do triceps work until I can do five pull ups
Author has formal education in exercise science and is co-owner of what is considered on of the top training facilities in the country. Probably had a decent idea of what gets the best results for most people. Also look at the strength and conditioning programs at universities. You won't see much bicep/tricep isolation work in those programs.
So when do we get to the science?If you like the isolation work go for it but most likely you are not being as effective/efficient in your training as you could be.
Yes. I've really been suffering here. I'm certain it's the curls that have been holding me back
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You all get the joke, right? That article was only semi-serious. They deal with a lot of younger athletes (esp baseball players), and they are just emphasizing the need to built a solid strength foundation before spending time with accessory isolation work.
Of course the article is tongue in cheek, but this has also developed a dogmatic following over the last few years. In large part the following is thanks to guys like Rippetoe and the screaming horde of Crossfitters. I agree beginners would do well to put down the twenty pound dumbbells and work on chin ups, they should also think about leaving the pull downs alone and learning to do pull-ups. But, the idea that isolation exercises offer nothing to the strength and general fitness market is wrong. In particular for injury prevention and injury recovery. People take articles like this and strip the sarcasm and humor from them then use it as a talking point. The picture of the woman doing leg abductors made me laugh.
^all this.
Know how cool it is when you're talking about Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones with a friend and someone walks up and says "I don't own a TV"? Don't you always love when that person does that? It makes them the coolest person in the room every single time.0
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