Doing squats/lunges correctly
cnbbnc
Posts: 1,267 Member
I'm getting a slight twinge in one knee right above the kneecap when I'm doing them. It isn't necessarily painful (nor is it every time) but I can feel a pulling there, which then makes me back off a bit because I'm afraid of straining something.
I looked it up and everything says its improper technique. I'm now making sure I'm keeping my weight on my heels so I can wiggle toes. I saw that I wasn't squatting deep enough before, and this week started going lower. I don't let my knees go over my toes. Twinges aren't any worse going lower, just still there....
The same happens with lunges but I don't know if that's because I tend to do both in a workout.
Anyway, do you think I'm still doing things incorrectly based on what I described, or am I not stretching properly first?
I looked it up and everything says its improper technique. I'm now making sure I'm keeping my weight on my heels so I can wiggle toes. I saw that I wasn't squatting deep enough before, and this week started going lower. I don't let my knees go over my toes. Twinges aren't any worse going lower, just still there....
The same happens with lunges but I don't know if that's because I tend to do both in a workout.
Anyway, do you think I'm still doing things incorrectly based on what I described, or am I not stretching properly first?
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So there are a counter of things. Women normally have a wide-q angle which can cause the patella to track in an odd manner. Your knees going over your toes is not necessarily a bad thing, it is more important for your knees to track over your feet as you squat. When lunging you should aim to keep the knee off the floor (on the back leg) and behind the toes on the lead leg.
How long ago did you start lifting and doing both squats and lunges in the same workout?0 -
How long ago did you start lifting and doing both squats and lunges in the same workout?
I started a 3 day per week program, and I just began my second week today. I've been doing them together for about 2 months now, but this program has me doing a higher amount. I'll keep what you mentioned in mind. Thanks.
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I had that same feeling in the same place - both knees actually - when I first started with just body weight lunges and squats. As I've continued on and progressed into weighted squats and lunges, I don't get the feeling anymore. I think in my case, it was just muscle/tendon weakness since prior to when I started in February, I'd basically never done those exercises consistently before. I can do tons squats and lunges now without that part of my knees bothering me.0
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kristinels wrote: »I had that same feeling in the same place - both knees actually - when I first started with just body weight lunges and squats. As I've continued on and progressed into weighted squats and lunges, I don't get the feeling anymore. I think in my case, it was just muscle/tendon weakness since prior to when I started in February, I'd basically never done those exercises consistently before. I can do tons squats and lunges now without that part of my knees bothering me.
I was going to tack "is it just weakness?" onto my list of questions. I'm definitely getting stronger, but I'm still new to a lot of this, so maybe it's a combo of things going on.
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Try adjusting your stance. I had a similar feeling at first when using a narrow stance and toes straight forward. After reading some of these forums, I played around with my stance and found that a wider stance with my toes slightly turned out was so much more comfortable. Also, my IT band was super tight when I first started which I think may have contributed to some of the twinges.0
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Anyway, do you think I'm still doing things incorrectly based on what I described, or am I not stretching properly first?
It could be your form, or something else. Hard to say without seeing you. You can upload form check videos and others will critique it.
Generally, don't stretch prior to lifting, but do warm up your joints with a few minutes of movement (elliptical machine, bodyweight squats, etc)
Which program are you following?
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Your knees may be caving toward the center. Concentrate on pushing them outward and push the butt back. Also visualize a straight bar path.0
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Cherimoose wrote: »[quote=
Which program are you following?
I'm giving the Women's Health hard body workout a shot.
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I'm getting a slight twinge in one knee right above the kneecap when I'm doing them. It isn't necessarily painful (nor is it every time) but I can feel a pulling there, which then makes me back off a bit because I'm afraid of straining something.
I looked it up and everything says its improper technique. I'm now making sure I'm keeping my weight on my heels so I can wiggle toes. I saw that I wasn't squatting deep enough before, and this week started going lower. I don't let my knees go over my toes. Twinges aren't any worse going lower, just still there....
The same happens with lunges but I don't know if that's because I tend to do both in a workout.
Anyway, do you think I'm still doing things incorrectly based on what I described, or am I not stretching properly first?
It is hard to say without seeing you squat. Anecdotally I would say your weight is shifting towards your toes; even in a correct squat your knees will likely be in-front of your toes, the important thing is where is the weight balanced. If your weight is more towards your toes you are adding more stress to your knees and your glutes and hamstrings aren't engaging correctly and they are very important muscles in the squat.When lunging you should aim to keep the knee off the floor (on the back leg) and behind the toes on the lead leg.
Why that suggestion for the lunge? Most references I've seen have the knee pretty much touching the floor and the knee behind the heel by a few inches. I think doing it knee of the floor and behind the toes is limited in range of motion and could probably push the weight more forward on the individual. I'm in work slacks otherwise I'd try it but that doesn't sound comfortable to me. Here are some pic's from NASM for an idea on positioning.
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Try a wider stance on the squats, and replace lunges with splits squats ("stationary lunges"). Those tend to be easier on the knees.
Their overhead dumbbell squat can make people's knees slide forward, increasing torque at the knee. I'd replace it with ordinary wide-stance squats.
Also i'd do the leg raises at the end of the workout, since tired abs can negatively affect squats, etc.
By the way, they have you doing 3 times as many chest sets as upper back, when those really should be about equal in number. You can fix that replacing some of the chest sets with back, like the 2-arm bent over row or standing cable row.
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Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »I'm getting a slight twinge in one knee right above the kneecap when I'm doing them. It isn't necessarily painful (nor is it every time) but I can feel a pulling there, which then makes me back off a bit because I'm afraid of straining something.
I looked it up and everything says its improper technique. I'm now making sure I'm keeping my weight on my heels so I can wiggle toes. I saw that I wasn't squatting deep enough before, and this week started going lower. I don't let my knees go over my toes. Twinges aren't any worse going lower, just still there....
The same happens with lunges but I don't know if that's because I tend to do both in a workout.
Anyway, do you think I'm still doing things incorrectly based on what I described, or am I not stretching properly first?
It is hard to say without seeing you squat. Anecdotally I would say your weight is shifting towards your toes; even in a correct squat your knees will likely be in-front of your toes, the important thing is where is the weight balanced. If your weight is more towards your toes you are adding more stress to your knees and your glutes and hamstrings aren't engaging correctly and they are very important muscles in the squat.When lunging you should aim to keep the knee off the floor (on the back leg) and behind the toes on the lead leg.
Why that suggestion for the lunge? Most references I've seen have the knee pretty much touching the floor and the knee behind the heel by a few inches. I think doing it knee of the floor and behind the toes is limited in range of motion and could probably push the weight more forward on the individual. I'm in work slacks otherwise I'd try it but that doesn't sound comfortable to me. Here are some pic's from NASM for an idea on positioning.
This is anecdotal but our S&C guys keep up from touching, we stop just above the ground. The reason is because there have been several people the coaches have worked with that have come down too rapidly during weighted squats and caused patella injuries. That should not scare any one from doing lunges. it is anecdotal.
But try it out, I have never not been below parallel and still keep the knee just off the ground (I mean barely off) and my lead knee behind my toes.0 -
Cherimoose wrote: »By the way, they have you doing 3 times as many chest sets as upper back, when those really should be about equal in number. You can fix that replacing some of the chest sets with back, like the 2-arm bent over row or standing cable row.
I don't know why the 3rd day of the workout doesn't show up online, but there IS a day 3 that does have barbell and cable rows. I was thinking that there wasn't quite as much back work though, so I'll tweak that a bit....
Thanks for all the thoughts on my form. I'll work on it.
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Your knees may be caving toward the center. Concentrate on pushing them outward and push the butt back. Also visualize a straight bar path.
This!! And use a wider stance if necessary. I have issues with one of my hip flexors and if I am not perfectly wide enough and consciously pushing outwards, then my knees cave in to compensate.0 -
This is anecdotal but our S&C guys keep up from touching, we stop just above the ground. The reason is because there have been several people the coaches have worked with that have come down too rapidly during weighted squats and caused patella injuries. That should not scare any one from doing lunges. it is anecdotal.
But try it out, I have never not been below parallel and still keep the knee just off the ground (I mean barely off) and my lead knee behind my toes.
Oh I thought we were talking about lunges. Yeah I'm not a fan of dive bombing squats either, inherently it seems like it would be pretty rough on the knees. If I'm doing a sagittal plane lunge I usually doing them in a walking fashion and take a good step forward so that my thigh is parallel to the ground to help get a better level of hip flexion and hip extension; naturally the trailing knee touches the ground. I guess it just depends on the individual.0 -
When squatting is it key to keep your back straight?
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@Sam_I_Am77 I barely tap the ground (if that) when lunging. I do walking lunges in timed circuits on hard surfaces.
It takes practice. You can use a mat or towel below the knee to learn how far to go before banging your knee. Static lunges are a great way to get used to the movement.0 -
@Sam_I_Am77 I barely tap the ground (if that) when lunging. I do walking lunges in timed circuits on hard surfaces.
It takes practice. You can use a mat or towel below the knee to learn how far to go before banging your knee. Static lunges are a great way to get used to the movement.
It may have been John Meadows or Dave Tate, but somebody with a training program wrote in regards to lunges that if the back knee doesn't touch the ground the rep doesn't count.0 -
I think I'm actually better sticking to plain ole lunges/squats because I keep trying Bulgarian split squats, and I don't know if it's because my legs are short or what, but I can NOT seem to get myself into a position with that leg out behind me to do them properly. When do I feel like I can't even extend my front leg out enough to get a lunge going without my back leg slipping off the bench.
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I think I'm actually better sticking to plain ole lunges/squats because I keep trying Bulgarian split squats, and I don't know if it's because my legs are short or what, but I can NOT seem to get myself into a position with that leg out behind me to do them properly. When do I feel like I can't even extend my front leg out enough to get a lunge going without my back leg slipping off the bench.
You can always try step-ups. Just use a bench or box that gets your thigh in a position that's parallel to the floor. Don't just limit yourself to going up and down, use side-step-ups / lunges and / or turning variations as well. Aside from little changes in how the muscles are trained in doing so, it also helps with your general movement and being able to know where your knees and ankles are "in-space" as you move (proprioception).0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »@Sam_I_Am77 I barely tap the ground (if that) when lunging. I do walking lunges in timed circuits on hard surfaces.
It takes practice. You can use a mat or towel below the knee to learn how far to go before banging your knee. Static lunges are a great way to get used to the movement.
It may have been John Meadows or Dave Tate, but somebody with a training program wrote in regards to lunges that if the back knee doesn't touch the ground the rep doesn't count.
Sadistic wishes? IDK but I like my knees. They have been very good to me. They are strong. And I don't want any trouble from them.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »@Sam_I_Am77 I barely tap the ground (if that) when lunging. I do walking lunges in timed circuits on hard surfaces.
It takes practice. You can use a mat or towel below the knee to learn how far to go before banging your knee. Static lunges are a great way to get used to the movement.
It may have been John Meadows or Dave Tate, but somebody with a training program wrote in regards to lunges that if the back knee doesn't touch the ground the rep doesn't count.
Sadistic wishes? IDK but I like my knees. They have been very good to me. They are strong. And I don't want any trouble from them.
Haha, probably. I'll tell you though, some of the worst DOMS I've ever felt in my glutes was from walking lunges with the long stride and back knee touching the ground. To the point where I'm grabbing the roof of my car to pull myself out and stabilize myself to get in. LOL0 -
On a previous workout routine I used to do high position barbell squats and I did get knee pain very similar to the OP especially when doing a narrow stance. Using a wider stance and having my toes pointed at a 10-to-2 angle helped a little. Now though I use dumbells held at my thighs and I get barely any discomfort even though I'm using the same equivalent weight as what I had on my back. I think it's probably because using dumbells helps keep my centre of gravity in at my core so my weight is less likely to creep forward over my toes.
I did find some success with a narrow stance when doing ball squats against a wall, again probably because my weight was naturally kept back over my heels. I even managed to add weight to that too by holding a dumbell to my chest.0 -
When squatting is it key to keep your back straight?
Not necessarily. My instructor told me it's more important to keep the chest up throughout which means as you squat, the back will naturally arch inwards at the base slightly. If you was to stand facing a wall while you squat, your upper chest should remain parallel to the wall throughout. If you didn't allow the back to arch, you'd end up headbutting the wall.0 -
unrelentingminx wrote: »When squatting is it key to keep your back straight?
Not necessarily. My instructor told me it's more important to keep the chest up throughout which means as you squat, the back will naturally arch inwards at the base slightly. If you was to stand facing a wall while you squat, your upper chest should remain parallel to the wall throughout. If you didn't allow the back to arch, you'd end up headbutting the wall.
That's not exactly correct. Arching the back is a compensation pattern for lack of hip and possibly ankle mobility. With a load on your back you want your spine to compress straight down and not at an angle. So keeping your chest up should mean keeping an upright posture through the entire core.
Before the heat comes, this is more of a "high-bar" squat. But even with a low bar position there should be little flexion or extension of the spine. A nuetral spinal position is what you should strive for.
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