processed food
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BTW, on another thread I took a meaning of the word "processed" to point out that milk is "processed" by the cow from grass, and grass is "processed" sunshine. Sunshine is "processed" hydrogen. By mechanical, chemical, or organic means, a potential food source is modified for convenience along the chain. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we eat pure hydrogen to avoid all processing.
I would recommend avoiding hydrogen too because it is actually processed protons, neutrons, and electrons. Lately, I have just been eating pure energy, and I feel great!0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »If you use your own processor to process your own foods is it then considered a processed food? Like if you made hummus? Or is a processed food only considered processed when you add preservatives?
When you see reference to "processed foods" usually foods purchased already processed is meant, and even more often 'overly processed' is meant.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »Well I do understand the plan. Ive not had any problems being successful on it. I understand he means deli meats and beef thats not pasture fed etc nitrate free uncured.
I was more curious what people consider processed. He says no canned foods, no box meals, its basically meat and veg and healthy carbs. Probably considered clean.
I suppose it means different things to different people. I am focusing more on healthier foods I make at home and veggies and some meats.
If I can it myself, is it processed? If I process it in a water bath while canning it, is it "processed?" If I don't wash the tomatoes before I peel them and can them, are they "clean?"
BTW, pastured beef not only require more natural resources to raise, but they contribute more to water pollution by dropping their leavings all over the place where they cannot be properly cleaned up and managed. Especially when there are running streams on the property, where they like to drink and poop at the same time.0 -
BTW, on another thread I took a meaning of the word "processed" to point out that milk is "processed" by the cow from grass, and grass is "processed" sunshine. Sunshine is "processed" hydrogen. By mechanical, chemical, or organic means, a potential food source is modified for convenience along the chain. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we eat pure hydrogen to avoid all processing.
I would recommend avoiding hydrogen too because it is actually processed protons, neutrons, and electrons. Lately, I have just been eating pure energy, and I feel great!
Which might be the goal of breatharians.0 -
BTW, on another thread I took a meaning of the word "processed" to point out that milk is "processed" by the cow from grass, and grass is "processed" sunshine. Sunshine is "processed" hydrogen. By mechanical, chemical, or organic means, a potential food source is modified for convenience along the chain. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we eat pure hydrogen to avoid all processing.
I would recommend avoiding hydrogen too because it is actually processed protons, neutrons, and electrons. Lately, I have just been eating pure energy, and I feel great!
Which might be the goal of breatharians.
Wait, I did not know that sunlight is actually processed information being transmitted from a giant spaceship! I will have to choose my energy sources more carefully...0 -
It really is simple, instead of using the term 'processed', use the term 'commercially processed'. That should eliminate any confusion.0
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beemerphile1 wrote: »It really is simple, instead of using the term 'processed', use the term 'commercially processed'. That should eliminate any confusion.
I doubt anyone is really confused.0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »Back when "processed" made sense, think of what is done to flour. Grinding is great because it saves us a lot of chewing, and flour is so flexible. You can make bread, thicken stews, all sorts of things. Then we did other things to the flour because we could, like remove the bran and bleach it. Now we can make big white fluffy creations just for fun.
"Processed" all by itself is not bad. We just have to keep track of all the things we are doing to the food product.
Im loving this pic♥!
I was just curious. I really wondered if I make it at home would it be processed. But I think I got it now. I mean I am on a foid plan where you are to eat no processed meats and no frozen premade meals etc. But I wondered how processed was yogurt and things like that. But I just kinda cant afford some of those meats so I just buy what I cam afford and so far it hasn't affected anything and I still lose.
When told to avoid "processed foods," this is generally referring to Ultra Processed foods; see starting on page 37: http://189.28.128.100/dab/docs/portaldab/publicacoes/guia_alimentar_populacao_ingles.pdf
Chris's definition goes beyond that:
http://www.chewfo.com/diets/choose-to-lose-by-chris-powell-2012-what-to-eat-and-foods-to-avoid-food-list/#avoidgeneral
Processed foods: Baked goods, chips, conventional white and wheat breads, crackers, frozen meals, foods containing hydrogenated oils, white flour, white rice0 -
beemerphile1 wrote: »It really is simple, instead of using the term 'processed', use the term 'commercially processed'. That should eliminate any confusion.
Still leaves canned beans and such a little confusing. I did just read a blog post that described those minimally processed things as "prepared" foods and not "processed". Of course, I've also heard frozen dinners referred to as prepared foods, so I don't really think that clears up much.
Again, who cares about labeling things; eat what you think will help you reach your goals and achieve a healthy lifestyle.0 -
"processed" as the word is used often just means foods one is assigning as "crap".
Examples of "processed" foods that often escape the "processed" label:
protein powders, particularly whey
cheeses
whole grain pastas and breads
canned vegetables (particularly the no salt added ones)
Any cooked meat
Legumes
Nut Butters
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"processed" as the word is used often just means foods one is assigning as "crap".
Examples of "processed" foods that often escape the "processed" label:
protein powders, particularly whey
cheeses
whole grain pastas and breads
canned vegetables (particularly the no salt added ones)
Any cooked meat
Legumes
Nut Butters
Meat is usually processed whether cooked or not. Not many people eat animals without processing (slaughtering, butchering, skinning, deboning, etc.).
But I think the reason this doesn't get counted as processed food is that the part actually consumed isn't usually altered in fresh meat.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »beemerphile1 wrote: »It really is simple, instead of using the term 'processed', use the term 'commercially processed'. That should eliminate any confusion.
I doubt anyone is really confused.
I am confused. Seriously, I still don't get it. I have never seen a definition of "processed" food that made any sense to me. There is no definitive threshold that turns something unprocessed into processed, instantly turning it from a healthy food into an unhealthy food. There is also no set limit to the amount of processing steps you can perform that turns something into an unhealthy food, unless you are adding poisons to it along the way.0 -
kshama2001 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Back when "processed" made sense, think of what is done to flour. Grinding is great because it saves us a lot of chewing, and flour is so flexible. You can make bread, thicken stews, all sorts of things. Then we did other things to the flour because we could, like remove the bran and bleach it. Now we can make big white fluffy creations just for fun.
"Processed" all by itself is not bad. We just have to keep track of all the things we are doing to the food product.
Im loving this pic♥!
I was just curious. I really wondered if I make it at home would it be processed. But I think I got it now. I mean I am on a foid plan where you are to eat no processed meats and no frozen premade meals etc. But I wondered how processed was yogurt and things like that. But I just kinda cant afford some of those meats so I just buy what I cam afford and so far it hasn't affected anything and I still lose.
When told to avoid "processed foods," this is generally referring to Ultra Processed foods; see starting on page 37: http://189.28.128.100/dab/docs/portaldab/publicacoes/guia_alimentar_populacao_ingles.pdf
Chris's definition goes beyond that:
http://www.chewfo.com/diets/choose-to-lose-by-chris-powell-2012-what-to-eat-and-foods-to-avoid-food-list/#avoidgeneral
Processed foods: Baked goods, chips, conventional white and wheat breads, crackers, frozen meals, foods containing hydrogenated oils, white flour, white rice
Chris Powell recommends a lot of protein powder. I can't see how that isn't highly processed food.0 -
It still doesn't address the use of the word in terms of the desirability of consuming the food, though. The ingredients are what they are, regardless of how they got there, for example.beemerphile1 wrote: »It really is simple, instead of using the term 'processed', use the term 'commercially processed'. That should eliminate any confusion.
If someone claims we should avoid processed food and there is no Greek yogurt tree such that Greek yogurt's existence depends on processing, is it somehow bad for you because of that?0 -
There are some foods that are dangerous unless cooked or washed. Glorious legumes and beans are nearly indigestible unless cooked. I was reading up on lupins, which have a nearly perfect macronutrient profile, but are normally toxic. But if you wash them for a few days.... The same with goosefoot/quinoa. The naturally soapy coating makes the "natural" seeds bitter. Thoroughly wash off that soapy coating, and all of a sudden we have a "superfood".0
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I agree with @auddii , I think it would be so much simpler if instead of telling people what they shouldn't eat, people should just be advised to eat whatever foods they want that help them reach their nutritional and weight loss (if that's their goal) goals. Some people will do that with primarily whole foods, some may use processed/convenience foods, some people like me will use both. It really should be more about addition of nutrient dense foods and less about elimination of a food type that doesn't have a clear meaning. If I choose to get some of my nutrients from greek yogurt, frozen foods, etc; that's my choice, but people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.0
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WinoGelato wrote: »I agree with @auddii , I think it would be so much simpler if instead of telling people what they shouldn't eat, people should just be advised to eat whatever foods they want that help them reach their nutritional and weight loss (if that's their goal) goals. Some people will do that with primarily whole foods, some may use processed/convenience foods, some people like me will use both. It really should be more about addition of nutrient dense foods and less about elimination of a food type that doesn't have a clear meaning. If I choose to get some of my nutrients from greek yogurt, frozen foods, etc; that's my choice, but people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.
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WinoGelato wrote: »people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.
I agree with this sentence here SO much. When did we start viewing nutritional guidelines as hard and fast rules. It's not about what is "allowed", it's what is recommended.0 -
@WineGelato , agreed. I think this is why the national food guide in my country advises to eat whole grains more often (emphasizing the positive).0
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@WineGelato , agreed. I think this is why the national food guide in my country advises to eat whole grains more often (emphasizing the positive).
The US recommendation is that half your grains be whole grain, though I suspect many Americans don't even know that.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.
I agree with this sentence here SO much. When did we start viewing nutritional guidelines as hard and fast rules. It's not about what is "allowed", it's what is recommended.
I think this is also a great way of putting this, and thinking about your question (although you may have intended it to be a rhetorical one), I wonder if it is the distinction between dietary guidelines from medical or governmental agencies (ie the AMA, or myplate.gov, or any country's health organization) which tend to focus on recommendations of what you SHOULD eat, and the "for profit" entities looking to sell books, supplements, etc which seem to be the ones focus on the labels and restrictions, and the things you "SHOULDN'T" eat.0 -
Well this conversation went alot farther than I imagined. I have learned new things and appreciate all the input. I think I get the ultra processed commercial processed deal is alot different from home prepared now. I however do not follow all of chris powells suggestions but as close as I can within my own dietary needs as I cant do his "drinks or supplements". Which is interesting as those are processed a MN d I hadn't thought about that.0
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forwardmoving wrote: »kshama2001 wrote: »angelexperiment wrote: »Back when "processed" made sense, think of what is done to flour. Grinding is great because it saves us a lot of chewing, and flour is so flexible. You can make bread, thicken stews, all sorts of things. Then we did other things to the flour because we could, like remove the bran and bleach it. Now we can make big white fluffy creations just for fun.
"Processed" all by itself is not bad. We just have to keep track of all the things we are doing to the food product.
Im loving this pic♥!
I was just curious. I really wondered if I make it at home would it be processed. But I think I got it now. I mean I am on a foid plan where you are to eat no processed meats and no frozen premade meals etc. But I wondered how processed was yogurt and things like that. But I just kinda cant afford some of those meats so I just buy what I cam afford and so far it hasn't affected anything and I still lose.
When told to avoid "processed foods," this is generally referring to Ultra Processed foods; see starting on page 37: http://189.28.128.100/dab/docs/portaldab/publicacoes/guia_alimentar_populacao_ingles.pdf
Chris's definition goes beyond that:
http://www.chewfo.com/diets/choose-to-lose-by-chris-powell-2012-what-to-eat-and-foods-to-avoid-food-list/#avoidgeneral
Processed foods: Baked goods, chips, conventional white and wheat breads, crackers, frozen meals, foods containing hydrogenated oils, white flour, white rice
Chris Powell recommends a lot of protein powder. I can't see how that isn't highly processed food.
Indeed, the menu from him I posted includes commercial cereal with protein powder and corn tortillas, among other things, yet it appears he includes homemade wholegrain bread as "processed" and to be avoided, and claims the foods he recommends are not. THIS is why people are confused. Makes no sense.
Again, as I said above, I think there are reasons to be clear on what you want to eat and what you don't and I don't think making such distinctions are wrong, but trying to hang it on some distorted idea of what's "processed" isn't really helpful and is just confusing. I would personally not eat a Hungry Man Dinner, but the reason is a lot more specific than "it's processed," and there are plenty of processed foods I think contribute positive things to my diet.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »I agree with @auddii , I think it would be so much simpler if instead of telling people what they shouldn't eat, people should just be advised to eat whatever foods they want that help them reach their nutritional and weight loss (if that's their goal) goals.
Exactly. One thing I like about this is that it encourages people to think through what their goals are and how certain foods help or not -- it increases real knowledge.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.
I agree with this sentence here SO much. When did we start viewing nutritional guidelines as hard and fast rules. It's not about what is "allowed", it's what is recommended.
I think this is also a great way of putting this, and thinking about your question (although you may have intended it to be a rhetorical one), I wonder if it is the distinction between dietary guidelines from medical or governmental agencies (ie the AMA, or myplate.gov, or any country's health organization) which tend to focus on recommendations of what you SHOULD eat, and the "for profit" entities looking to sell books, supplements, etc which seem to be the ones focus on the labels and restrictions, and the things you "SHOULDN'T" eat.
I think this is almost surely it.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »I agree with @auddii , I think it would be so much simpler if instead of telling people what they shouldn't eat, people should just be advised to eat whatever foods they want that help them reach their nutritional and weight loss (if that's their goal) goals.
Exactly. One thing I like about this is that it encourages people to think through what their goals are and how certain foods help or not -- it increases real knowledge.
I'm glad you agree since I basically learned all of this from what you have always said in threads like this!!!0 -
angelexperiment wrote: »If you use your own processor to process your own foods is it then considered a processed food? Like if you made hummus? Or is a processed food only considered processed when you add preservatives?
It depends on what you are making?
For me processed foods (in terms of the processed foods to limit) are generally commercially processed and have added sugar, salt, fat, Polyunsaturated and other unhealthy oils (transfats, interesterified fats) also food additives.
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WinoGelato wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »people get so caught up in whether or not something is "allowed" then I think they miss out on many foods that could actually benefit them.
I agree with this sentence here SO much. When did we start viewing nutritional guidelines as hard and fast rules. It's not about what is "allowed", it's what is recommended.
I think this is also a great way of putting this, and thinking about your question (although you may have intended it to be a rhetorical one), I wonder if it is the distinction between dietary guidelines from medical or governmental agencies (ie the AMA, or myplate.gov, or any country's health organization) which tend to focus on recommendations of what you SHOULD eat, and the "for profit" entities looking to sell books, supplements, etc which seem to be the ones focus on the labels and restrictions, and the things you "SHOULDN'T" eat.
Honestly since joining these forums I think it is that a great many people see everything as black and white, all or nothing. A recommendation to eat less saturated fat becomes avoid all saturated fat. Eat less fat becomes eat low fat. Reduce carbs becomes eat low carb. Eat more whole grains and less overly processed grains becomes never eat processed grains or even never eat grains at all.
It seems that many people can't seem to understand that saying we (as a nation) are eating too much of <this> doesn't mean <this> is dangerous in any amount.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »A recommendation to eat less saturated fat becomes avoid all saturated fat. Eat less fat becomes eat low fat. Reduce carbs becomes eat low carb. Eat more whole grains and less overly processed grains becomes never eat processed grains or even never eat grains at all.
I am generally in favor of following nutrition guidelines (which might mean lowering those things, depending on your diet). I absolutely never suggest that's not a good goal. But quite often I see people who seem to think it's all or nothing -- either you overeat sugar massively or you cut out all sugar (including fruit), you eat the SAD or you become a raw food vegan (much less common) or do keto or do some other set plan. It's totally fine to do those things, if someone wants to, of course. What gets me is when it's suggested that those are the only healthy ways to eat and eating some or any sugar or sat fat or processed foods or whatever it is = unhealthy.It seems that many people can't seem to understand that saying we (as a nation) are eating too much of <this> doesn't mean <this> is dangerous in any amount.
I don't think this is true. We (the US) as a nation are eating poorly, and I think no one much objects to that being acknowledged. I object to generalized advice that people should eat no white foods or the like (and that is how it's given, not that we should cut down), because (1) there are times when the white pasta might be worth it or be the healthier choice for other reasons, and (2) the person giving the advice has no way to know if I (or whoever else is addressed) actually overeats, say, refined grains, even though the country as a whole does.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »A recommendation to eat less saturated fat becomes avoid all saturated fat. Eat less fat becomes eat low fat. Reduce carbs becomes eat low carb. Eat more whole grains and less overly processed grains becomes never eat processed grains or even never eat grains at all.
I am generally in favor of following nutrition guidelines (which might mean lowering those things, depending on your diet). I absolutely never suggest that's not a good goal. But quite often I see people who seem to think it's all or nothing -- either you overeat sugar massively or you cut out all sugar (including fruit), you eat the SAD or you become a raw food vegan (much less common) or do keto or do some other set plan. It's totally fine to do those things, if someone wants to, of course. What gets me is when it's suggested that those are the only healthy ways to eat and eating some or any sugar or sat fat or processed foods or whatever it is = unhealthy.It seems that many people can't seem to understand that saying we (as a nation) are eating too much of <this> doesn't mean <this> is dangerous in any amount.
I don't think this is true. We (the US) as a nation are eating poorly, and I think no one much objects to that being acknowledged. I object to generalized advice that people should eat no white foods or the like (and that is how it's given, not that we should cut down), because (1) there are times when the white pasta might be worth it or be the healthier choice for other reasons, and (2) the person giving the advice has no way to know if I (or whoever else is addressed) actually overeats, say, refined grains, even though the country as a whole does.
I'm not quite following this last bit. What is it that you think is not true? Your post seems to be saying pretty much the same thing I posted, albeit a good deal more wordy.0
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