Alternatives for leg extension/curls

RoxieDawn

Cherimoose wrote: »

summerkissed wrote: »

Doms are small tears in the muscle (the pain we feel) as they repair they get stronger (hence muscle growth) it also uses more energy (hence faster metabolism)

Strength development only requires progressive overload. If the progression is gradual, DOMS can be minimal.. but the long-term strength gains can be the same as with a faster progression and more DOMS. It's like walking a marathon vs. running it - the distance traveled is the same.. the only difference is the speed (and the injury risk). Makes sense?

+1

dogcatac

i was actually just looking this up:
http://www.mensfitness.com/training/pro-tips/9-machines-you-should-never-use/slide/8
click through for leg extensions

summerkissed

Cherimoose wrote: »

summerkissed wrote: »

Doms are small tears in the muscle (the pain we feel) as they repair they get stronger (hence muscle growth) it also uses more energy (hence faster metabolism)

Strength development only requires progressive overload. If the progression is gradual, DOMS can be minimal.. but the long-term strength gains can be the same as with a faster progression and more DOMS. It's like walking a marathon vs. running it - the distance traveled is the same.. the only difference is the speed (and the injury risk). Makes sense?

Marathon runners are skinny as hell with no muscle......sprinters are hot as hell and built like the hulk...........I know the body I want!!

Sam_I_Am77

summerkissed wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

Cherimoose wrote: »

summerkissed wrote: »

Yes not enough progression lol if I can't feel the muscle I've worked the day before then I need to go a little more weight or for another rep lol

OH, you just want to feel DOMS. Just take a few extra days off and you'll be sore. Problem solved, LOL

Yeah OP are you talking about wanting to feel sore? If that's the case, the soreness / DOMS as the sign of a good workout is incredibly misleading. DOMS for the first few workouts of something new is good because it's a sign that you've discovered something you need to work on. But as you progress the soreness you should feel would be marginal to none. It truly is not a good sign of progression at all. If anything, if you're feeling DOMS after several weeks / months; it's more of a sign that you're doing something wrong. There's a difference between knowing you've trained a muscle group and you can feel that fatigue and being flat-out sore.

The jury on DOMS is still out though, it depends on who you talk too or which study you read as to the point of view you take! And I've done a lot of reading. For me personally my best features are back and shoulders the parts of my body I can get doms in after every workout....my legs are the part lacking and also the part I struggle to get doms in after the first week. Doms are small tears in the muscle (the pain we feel) as they repair they get stronger (hence muscle growth) it also uses more energy (hence faster metabolism) but again there's many studies and many different theories on this.....but I like this one lol

I'm familiar with what DOMS is and why it occurs, but why do you say the "Jury is still out"? DOMS is rather specific and not overly debatable, it is what it is.

If you're struggling to get DOMS in your back and shoulders it's probably because you either haven't challenged them and you just carry low-bodyfat OR you have challenged them very well and are using an effective method of training your upper body. What do you mean by after the first week? Are you training in training blocks and do something different every few weeks? Maybe the issue is not in your exercise selection, perhaps it's in other training variables such as Sets, Reps, Intensity, Tempo, or Frequency. How long have you been in a structured training program? What does your training plan look like?

Strength development only requires progressive overload. If the progression is gradual, DOMS can be minimal.. but the long-term strength gains can be the same as with a faster progression and more DOMS. It's like walking a marathon vs. running it - the distance traveled is the same.. the only difference is the speed (and the injury risk). Makes sense?

He's making a good point here. The thing is with the faster progression, which it sounds like you're looking for, is that if you increase your exercise and cause more micro-trauma to it your body must be able to recover from that trauma. Part of improving is not through the training itself but also in the recovery, you cannot just pound a muscle group into the ground constant and expect to improve. One has to look at their training more holistically.

summerkissed

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

summerkissed wrote: »

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

Cherimoose wrote: »

summerkissed wrote: »

Yes not enough progression lol if I can't feel the muscle I've worked the day before then I need to go a little more weight or for another rep lol

OH, you just want to feel DOMS. Just take a few extra days off and you'll be sore. Problem solved, LOL

Yeah OP are you talking about wanting to feel sore? If that's the case, the soreness / DOMS as the sign of a good workout is incredibly misleading. DOMS for the first few workouts of something new is good because it's a sign that you've discovered something you need to work on. But as you progress the soreness you should feel would be marginal to none. It truly is not a good sign of progression at all. If anything, if you're feeling DOMS after several weeks / months; it's more of a sign that you're doing something wrong. There's a difference between knowing you've trained a muscle group and you can feel that fatigue and being flat-out sore.

The jury on DOMS is still out though, it depends on who you talk too or which study you read as to the point of view you take! And I've done a lot of reading. For me personally my best features are back and shoulders the parts of my body I can get doms in after every workout....my legs are the part lacking and also the part I struggle to get doms in after the first week. Doms are small tears in the muscle (the pain we feel) as they repair they get stronger (hence muscle growth) it also uses more energy (hence faster metabolism) but again there's many studies and many different theories on this.....but I like this one lol

I'm familiar with what DOMS is and why it occurs, but why do you say the "Jury is still out"? DOMS is rather specific and not overly debatable, it is what it is.

If you're struggling to get DOMS in your back and shoulders it's probably because you either haven't challenged them and you just carry low-bodyfat OR you have challenged them very well and are using an effective method of training your upper body. What do you mean by after the first week? Are you training in training blocks and do something different every few weeks? Maybe the issue is not in your exercise selection, perhaps it's in other training variables such as Sets, Reps, Intensity, Tempo, or Frequency. How long have you been in a structured training program? What does your training plan look like?

Strength development only requires progressive overload. If the progression is gradual, DOMS can be minimal.. but the long-term strength gains can be the same as with a faster progression and more DOMS. It's like walking a marathon vs. running it - the distance traveled is the same.. the only difference is the speed (and the injury risk). Makes sense?

He's making a good point here. The thing is with the faster progression, which it sounds like you're looking for, is that if you increase your exercise and cause more micro-trauma to it your body must be able to recover from that trauma. Part of improving is not through the training itself but also in the recovery, you cannot just pound a muscle group into the ground constant and expect to improve. One has to look at their training more holistically.

No my back and shoulders are great.....this thread is for my legs and gaining size and shape in them hence I'm asking for alternatives to leg extensions and hamstring curls! My muscles are long as I have long legs and I'm struggling to get the size I want....ive been training for many years and competed in 4 figure comps. I have had a break though from training for a couple of years and I've been back solidly now for 6 months, I've studied fitness and quiet a few other courses as well. The cause of Doms is not 100% known and the explanation is different in every course I've done! Even the definition of Doms states is 'thought' to be from... there is no definite cause.
I'm now trying a new program that's working awesome only I need an alternative for those exercises as I don't have access to a commercial gym the rest of the program I can do at home on my power rack. I just want to fully fatigue the muscles and as such I want to finish with an isolation for both. I like to feel Doms after every workout that's just me and I've been around long enough to know that that's what gives me the greatest gains.

Sam_I_Am77

Even the definition of Doms states is 'thought' to be from... there is no definite cause.

That is quite true, but the larger body of evidence suggests micro tears / trauma that was mentioned earlier. Unfortunately much of an Exercise Science should really be called Exercise Theory because there seems to be few absolutes.

It looks like you do some figure or bikini competition so your goals are aesthetic in-nature, so I can understand the reasoning for pushing volume. It just seemed that a correlation between the pain from DOMS and progress was being made and DOMS isn't really a sign of progress, it could easily be a sign of poor training or poor recovery. I am not saying your training is poor, just saying DOMS should not be your measuring tool.

There are a lot of good suggestions here and if you're limited in your equipment then you have to make due with what you have. Different variations with barbells can done like unilateral RDL's instead of bilateral. You can also adjust your volume, intensity, mess with drop-sets, cluster-sets, etc. Having hope equipment is great until you find that one machine you miss.