A world with no models?

TiaFerrera · June 2013

Hi there, I posted the "this is a photoshop thread" in the spirit of teaching women how to not compare themselves to the unrealistic standards of the advertising world via Photoshop.
(1: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/982475-this-is-a-photoshop-signed-a-graphic-artist-with-pics & 2: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/985079-this-is-a-photoshop-signed-a-graphic-artist-with-pics)

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Victoria Secret is notorious about taking already top models with perfect bodies, and photoshopping them beyond possible reality. I see women comparing themselves to them, little girls wishing to look like them. It's sad. You could never eat again and never look like that. But many woman bust their rumps trying.

I'm not trying to put models out of business, but would love to see the unrealistic photoshopping kick rocks. I actually avoid VS because of the bombshell models, nothing on earth is gonna make me look like that, so in my mind that product isn't for me.

Just now, my attention was directed to look on Victoria Secrets pinboard (thank you indyink) They just show the bikini, no model, and it's odd just how easy it is to accept this "just the product" approach.

http://pinterest.com/victoriassecret/vsteenybikini/

What do ya'll think of a world with no models?

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

I like the idea of no Photoshop better. Never say never. If you dream it and believe it, you can achieve it. I've seen plenty of transformations to know it is achievable AND they definitely eat!

michellechawner · June 2013

I like their approach on this one - and in seeing some of the comments, so do the users. This one especially stuck out -

"I love this! And I'm not sure your reason, but i love just the bikini! I can imagine what my taters look like in it instead of trying trying to imagine the supermodels melons smaller to be like mine! lol"

I also like the idea of no photoshop, but not just for models, for anyone in the public eye - the Kardashians are the best people I can think of at the moment. I remember seeing them in the original "this is photoshopped" link the OP did.

I don't even try and look to someone for admiration anymore on my weight loss goals, because you're right, for all I know they are photoshopped in my fave pictures, or the goals are just too unrealistic.

jwdieter · June 2013

Umm. I'd rather see the models. On board with the no photoshop part though.

TiaFerrera · June 2013

Great opinions!

I'd love to see a world where photoshopping is limited to lighting adjustments. I'm not anti models, but I'm very against taking perfect women and saying to all of woman kind, that they aren't good enough either.

And to also clarify:

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

I'm actually not. I just aspire to be a fitness model. But, thank you, sweetie!!

amyk0202 · June 2013

I would also like to see photoshop reserved for lighting issues. I do like to see clothing modeled, but I would also like to see a broader range of people used. I'm short, still fat, & top heavy. I'd like to see people who actually look like me wearing clothes--if they sell it in my size, I'd like to see it modeled every once in a while. I love the shops where people can review products & give their size/measurements & also post their own pictures. If I see someone with similar measurements say a shirt works for them, or there is a picture, I'm more likely to buy it.

vienna_h · June 2013

I disagree. Photoshop is an amazing tool, and produces great photos. They don't have to be realistic. Everyone KNOWS they aren't realistic. They are fantasy. They are ads.

I think people just use models and photoshop as scapegoats. It's difficult to be reasonable and admit when you have self-esteem issues. It's easier to say its photoshops fault.

If you look at an ad in a magazine, and see some gorgeous top model, you know this girl is genetic mutant with a figure that only a minuscule fraction of the population is capable of attaining, and you know that image was further manipulated. If you look at that photo and still feel bad about yourself, that's on you. Get over it. Photoshop and models aren't the problem. You're self-esteem is. Your self-esteem has nothing to do with whether or not Photoshop exists. Stop interpreting these images as such.

meshashesha2012 · June 2013

i dont understand why some people need so much constant reassurance every single day of them being attractive :laugh:

models are used as advertisement..

advertisement is used to sell products

if people can't separate the ad from real life then that's their issue and shouldn't be blamed on models, the media or whatever. unless you're also complaining about "why is the milk in my cereal ads actually glue instead of milk", then i dont see the validity in complaining about models in ads as being not completely what they would look like in real life

it's called self-esteem for a reason. this just comes off as sipping on that haterade.

00sarah · June 2013

I think they ALL look so much more... Beautiful & human *before the Photoshop.

ApocalypticFae · June 2013

I think that a lot of models should be shopped a little less sometimes, but I love browsing through photos of V.S. models even if they are extremely altered. I'm a fan of the whole "aim for the moon, if you miss then you will at least land amongst the stars" approach, so I always aim for goals that might be "unattainable" in others' eyes. But who knows? Maybe I will actually reach those lofty goals, and if not, then I am still a lot closer to my dreams than I was yesterday. Keep the models!

Lyadeia · June 2013

I would definitely NOT like a world with no models. I don't look to Victoria's Secret catalogs for inspiration in my fat loss journey, but I do prefer to see what the bathing suits or undies would look like on a body before deciding on making a purchase.

I am definitely in the camp of "leave the models, leave out the photoshop." Photoshopped models don't annoy me because they are creating unattainable bodies and such, it annoys me because these women are already gorgeous and don't need to be altered! Why can't we see real, natural beauty?

VS is HORRIBLE at photoshop anyway...limbs are too long or skinny and definitely don't match left and right, and the funniest of all, they enlarge their boobs which makes it look like those ladies are confused about their bra size. It honestly looks like they are stuffing 32H boobs into a 32B bra in some of their more idiotic photoshops in the catalogs.

I see nothing wrong with using photoshop to enhance natural features, but when you start messing with people who are already fit and lean making them look like cartoon characters, it's just silly. I even saw a recent magazine with Jillian Michaels on the cover advertising some new workout routine that she has created. It's photoshopped, too, and Jillian looks as though her body is so smooth all over that she's been ironed flat. Pretty sad when you have to take someone who is already fit and does fitness for a living and basically tell her that her body isn't fit enough for our magazine.

Does it hurt my self esteem? No, absolutely not. I'm not sure why some people would think that photoshop is in charge of how I see myself. But to point out the sheer idiocy of how the program is used is definitely not wrong either.

I personally don't even look to fashion magazines for fitness inspiration. That's not why those ladies are famous, anyway. I look to people in the fitness industry, such as fitness and bikini competitors, for my inspiration. No photoshops there, just hard work and dedication.

anemoneprose · June 2013

What. Sure, yeah, we 'know' it. The problem is, the documented negative effects on women's self esteem work on a level way deeper than our conscious knowledge about the world. It's insidious.
I would love to see PSing in ads done away with. Wasn't there talk of 'warning' labels for PS"d pics?

meshashesha2012 · June 2013

anyone looking to a magazine to give them self esteem has already failed in that regards.

the problem doesnt lie in the fact that girls look at magazines. plenty of girls grow up looking at magazines and still have healthy self-esteems. and people with low self esteems will always have low self esteems until that fix that issue, regardless of who is PSd in a magazine or not.

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

I would have to politely disagree with that last paragraph. Its not impossible to obtain those pre Photoshopped bodies. I say I prefer a less Photoshopped world, because I want my own pictures, such as my profile picture to be the real me. I don't want or need to be doctored and I want the real me to come across, so people see a real person, not a real person who was then Photoshopped to bits to look unobtainable. My self-esteem is in tact and definitely not lacking. I just never want to come across as anything I'm not.

anemoneprose · June 2013

One would like to think so. However, a recent psych study compared measures of women's self-worth before and after looking at Victoria Secret ads (yeah, actually VS ads) compared to 'neutral' ads (for a cellphone). Like every experiment, participants were randomly assigned to groups, which means that individual differences in self-esteem should average out within each group (& therefore not affect the results). The VS group had lower measures across the board, and also higher public self-consciousness.

http://psp.sagepub.com/content/34/2/288.abstract?patientinform-links=yes&legid=sppsp;34/2/288

(the abstract doesn't explain all that, but if you have access check it out; also the pdf shows up in a google scholar search)

these are norms that basically get sedimented in our brains without us wanting them to, and can be triggered by things like those ads.

anemoneprose · June 2013

I mean, how do you suppose advertising works? Are big companies idiots for spending billions of dollars on ads? No, it works for them, above is one reason why.

onedayatatime12 · June 2013

I'm still learning how to be the best lady/woman I can be. So I guess it's OK to admit that I naively believed into the Unattainable figure bull****. You know what? I'm OK being the Candice Swanepoel on the left, because she's gorgeous! And I need to realize that, I WILL have a crease near my underarms, my thighs *MAY* touch, my tummy may not be perfectly flat, even if I want it to be (thanks to genetics), but I'll be happy with myself, just knowing I'm taking care of my body, inside and out. A healthy, fit me is all I need to be, and now it's all I WANT to be. I've come to terms with myself and I realize what's best for me now. Thanks so much for this post, again. :flowerforyou:

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

I will also point out that its in the way a person poses, too. These are all unedited pictures from my last photo shoot. Some, there is "hangover" and some there is not, due to how I stood. These are examples of why I prefer less Photoshop, so people can see a real person.

TiaFerrera · June 2013

Amyk0202 - I agree, I love it very much when you can see the item in use on every day women. I am always more prone to buy it. Seeing it on a model doesn't tell me what i'll look like in it you know?

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Onedayatatime - You speak all the right words!

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Ipuffyheartco - go on with your bad self girl that body is banging and nothing to feel ashamed of!

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I don't want to see a world without models as I've so clearly stated, but I did enjoy the refreshing approach VS took with this new campaign and I was very pleased to see the different responses. Maybe it's not the alternative to photoshopped women, but it's definitely a welcome approach in my book. In some cases I even feel like I understand the product better not being distracted by some tig-ole-bitties.

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Vienna_h… you gonna get me on a rant.

If you click on either of the photoshop threads listed above you might be surprised to see everyone DOES NOT know that, in fact an overwhelming percentage of the population is not aware, or the advertising wouldn't work. You would be wrong to dismiss ALL of them as idiots because there are some amazingly brilliant people who were able to learn and to set realistic goals in their weightless path. Setting realistic goals in weightless is very key and nothing to do with self esteem.

I am a professional in the field and know first hand why, and how these images come about and am disgusted with the attack on womanhood. You might be blind to it but most products for women (not just clothes but all prodcuts) have the directive within their marketing plan, to make women feel less adequate while offering a cure for that inadequacy, even if temporarily, so they are propelled to purchase while fueling the black whole that is a retail therapy mindset. It sells, thats why they do it. You can close your eyes to it, but the entire industry doesn't spend that much money for no reason. (I don't do that kind of work any more and stick to advertising for local businesses.)

I've talked to everyone from little girls who shouldn't even comprehend the word "fat" to beautiful thin women who genetically have a wide rib cages, to housewives with 3 kids who earned that damn pooch that exercise can't cure. It's important that women love themselves and seek fitness to live long, happy and healthy lives. Women are not livestock to be prodded along life with the soul purpose of feeling guilty about that extra 5 pounds, crows feet, arm wrinkles or frizzy hair, while be milked for products to cure it. They ARE beautiful the way they are, but self-contentment doesn't sell.

You can say people know better, but look around you, right now, at all the name brands surrounding you and tell me advertising doesn't work.

Poor self-esteem from a magazine isn't the core of this issue. I personally equate over-shops with the old racist propaganda of savage Indians and blacks with big red lips, way back when. When they start elongating necks and waists and arms and cutting off leg meat and shopping out ribs they create a comical representation of what a woman really is, a mockery, that effects everyones judgement of women around them, and that does have a little somethin' to do with self esteem, far out reaching Katy Perry being shopped to comic book status on the cover of Vogue this month.

Frankly, I don't mind naïveté, that's half my crusade to educate, but I do resent your matter-of-fact manner in regard to an issue you clearly don't understand. It leads me to believe your own sense of self worth is based on demeaning others who don't see things as you do. You're too pretty for that. Women should encourage and empower each other, not tell them to "get over it it's your problem."

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

thank you! I'm definitely not ashamed. My point was just that those hangover spots, i.e. my back, side and hips, etc., not being edited smooth shows a real person, which was my point. I'd prefer to be real than Photoshopped to show a real attainable person.

gmallan · June 2013

Well it isn't impossible to improve your own body and be the best version of yourself but what's impossible is when you have a 5 foot girl who wants to look like a 6 foot tall model. That is impossible. Then you thrown in photoshop. Not only is it not possible for the majority of females to have the typical body type of a model due to genetics, it's also an unhealthy ideal to strive for for a lot of women/girls. A large percetage of mainstream models are underweight and even fitness models tend to practise quite unhealthy restriction in the lead up to a competition/photo shoot.

I disagree with the above poster about the extent that people realise these images are photo-shopped. I was always aware that it went on but I never realised the extent that they altered these women's body shapes. I think it's particularly damaging when tween/teen girls are exposed to heavily photo-shopped images that are presented as the "ideal body type" and I don't think they are aware of that these images are digitally altered

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

my disagreement was in response to the bodies themselves being unattainable pre-Photoshop. I have seen plenty of fitness models who went from obese to fitness models without Photoshop or genetics. They just worked really hard to look that good. Kelsey Byers, Katie Cates and Elizabeth Hill to name a few...

I'm sure there are a handful of fitness models who do dangerous restrictions leading up to a competition and/or photo shoot, sure, but not all of us do. Some of us are careful with leading up to a competition and/or shoot. Personally, I'm very careful with the weeks leading up to a competition and/or shoot, in that I eat more than when I'm not prepping to compete or shoot.

I also stated repeatedly in this thread that I wished they would stop using Photoshop and start showing the real women.

gmallan · June 2013

Yep but part of the point is that those fitness models don't look like they do in the photos year-round and all almost without exception will have done some kind of cut/restriction of calories to look that way for a brief period in time. That brief snapshot is what gets presented to the world as the ideal to strive towards and is not something that most people can maintain without a heavily restricted lifestyle.

You didn't even touch on my point about the restrictions of genetics for a lot of people. I.e. you have to be genetically tall and stereotypically "beautiful" AND work hard if you are even going to have a chance to look like that. I'm talking about characteristics that can't be altered (bar surgery). Obviously Kelsey Byers, Katie Cates and Elizabeth Hill DID have the genetics to do it, they just needed to manipulate their environment (i.e. work hard to get there). No amount of hard work or clean eating will get me taller/bigger boobs or a face like any of them. That's a genetic reality you can't change and one that faces the majority of the population.

Models are largely genetic freaks (in the nicest possible way). Sure they have to work hard to stay that way but you need to have been blessed with the basic characteristics of what society deems beautiful to even be in the running

anemoneprose · June 2013

You know, I don't know for sure, but I feel like representations of women (not just in stills/ads, but in film and tv) in Europe are a lot less pathology-making. Not sure if they do less PS, or (for films/TV) cast more realistically, but I remember feeling thrilled to see ordinary women in the media in general.

OP, great thread, I like your other one too.

lintino · June 2013

I taught media production for a number of years and this topic is one that I made sure my students knew about. Unfortunately the majority of people are not taught how to analyze the visual representations of what are "sold" to them in the media. One site that I liked to use with my students is http://www.about-face.org/ They do a particularly good job of critiquing the images and also presenting and praising companies that use models that represent more realistic women's bodies. I'm glad to see this issue being discussed. Girls as young as 10 believe that they must "diet" to be beautiful and accepted. The images that we see are powerful.

IpuffyheartHeelsinthegym · June 2013

because my only point was their body, not their height or gorgeous faces. For the record, none of those ladies are that tall.... but, my point was just their/our bodies and the role Photoshop plays... I've seen those ladies unedited pictures, and have shared mine. My only point was the body is attainable with hard work and dedication and that there is no need for Photoshop to make what hard work was put in appear unattainable...

BinaryPulsar · June 2013

I do like the idea of having a wider range of shaped/sized people to model clothing that is for purchase, etc. As long as it does not go so far in the extreme that smaller sized people are not represented. We are all different sized people, all real people, all with our own issues and challenges. I know I have my own. And I know from listening to others that it is not restricted to one set of issues. One person feels too tall and that being petite is what was held up as an ideal (in their personal life by family or friends). A petite person sees all the tall models and feels that height is required for certain life endeavors, etc. So, it's not just one issue. It's that women are taught that they aren't good enough. Boobs are too big or too small or not perky or whatever. This can be applied to so many body parts. And I think the issues sometimes also gets perpetuated when women learn to put down other body types in order to feel good about their own. That is a huge thing people could benefit from learning. How do they love and appreciate their body, while admiring other bodies. It's not an either or. It's not, "I look good, and this other person does not because they look different from me and I could never look that way, so they must be unattractive or doing something unhealthy to be that way".

I appreciate your perspective op (in your further comments).

A world with no models?

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