Is it better to do cardio to lose fat before strength training?

radiosilents

Since dealing with runner's knee resulting from weak glutes and core, I highly recommend doing strength training while working on your running. The stronger you are, the less likely you'll have to deal with injury down the road. I like doing both!

besee_2000

radiosilents wrote: »

Since dealing with runner's knee resulting from weak glutes and core, I highly recommend doing strength training while working on your running. The stronger you are, the less likely you'll have to deal with injury down the road. I like doing both!

This
Also, muscle will raise your BMR (you will burn more doing nothing with more muscle). The cardio will also be more effective.

robertw486

This time around I've focused more on cardio to up my fitness and cut the fat first, then transition more into upper body workouts and some lifting. But this brings up what I feel is a valid point that I think is often misrepresented here on the forums. Unless a person is doing very low resistance type cardio work, they are obviously working muscle groups to get that heart rate up, and thus preserving muscles in that area.

And for that reason, I think the type of cardio work a person does has a huge impact on muscle retention and/or development during that period of weight loss. I've dropped over 30 pounds since the start of the year, and gained size in my quads due to my cardio type workouts. Though my stuff has been mostly lower body (biking and elliptical with higher resistance/inclines frequently) adding swimming and others can help retain muscle mass while cutting fat at the same time.

munozangel012

I'm that person that can't stop checking where my weight is... I went from 343 to currently 280 on mostly just dieting and cardio, I do very little to any weight cause all I'm focused on is losing weight and not gaining muscle, I read all the comments and now I probably will be adding weights 2x out of my work week and see how that goes... Always try something new till you find something that works.

Traveler120

robertw486 wrote: »

This time around I've focused more on cardio to up my fitness and cut the fat first, then transition more into upper body workouts and some lifting. But this brings up what I feel is a valid point that I think is often misrepresented here on the forums. Unless a person is doing very low resistance type cardio work, they are obviously working muscle groups to get that heart rate up, and thus preserving muscles in that area.

And for that reason, I think the type of cardio work a person does has a huge impact on muscle retention and/or development during that period of weight loss. I've dropped over 30 pounds since the start of the year, and gained size in my quads due to my cardio type workouts. Though my stuff has been mostly lower body (biking and elliptical with higher resistance/inclines frequently) adding swimming and others can help retain muscle mass while cutting fat at the same time.

Exactly! My primary goal was fat loss not gaining muscle. All I needed to do was use and retain the muscle I had and exercise in general should do that. I've lost nearly 30 lbs this year through the elliptical and spinning, both set at high resistance. I also did a hilly hike and cycling. But a trainer at the gym and other so called experts on forums said I'd lose lean mass if I didn't do weight lifting saying my form of exercise didn't count as strength training.

Well, they were wrong. My hilly hike now takes much less effort and time. I now run up hills and cycle hilly terrain that previously killed my legs. That's an indication of gaining strength, NOT losing lean mass. There's just so much BS tossed around from 'expert' trainers even when it defies common sense.

Now that I've dropped majority of the excess body fat and now a slim and fit 125 lbs, I'm now adding bodyweight training and dumbells for resistance training. I'm enjoying it more now that I'm fitter. It's a matter of personal preference. Since my primary goal was fat loss and not building muscle, I focused on the activity that would burn the most calories and that was high intensity, high resistance cardio. The kind of strength training I'm doing now, which is the only kind I'm interested in doing, is a drop in the bucket in terms of calorie burn. I still rely on cardio for my main source of calorie deficit.

Big5BigChange

rankinsect wrote: »

Diet for fat loss, strength for muscle retention, cardio for fitness.

This is a nifty turn of phrase.

rankinsect

robertw486 wrote: »

This time around I've focused more on cardio to up my fitness and cut the fat first, then transition more into upper body workouts and some lifting. But this brings up what I feel is a valid point that I think is often misrepresented here on the forums. Unless a person is doing very low resistance type cardio work, they are obviously working muscle groups to get that heart rate up, and thus preserving muscles in that area.

It depends. If you're in the horrifically-named "fat burning zone" in terms of heart rate, where a lot of people chill for a long time, you don't really push your muscles near their limits - and it's that level of exertion that keeps muscle mass. If you do shorter cardio at higher intensity, then yes, you will be pushing those muscles and maintaining muscle mass in those muscles.

robertw486

rankinsect wrote: »

robertw486 wrote: »

This time around I've focused more on cardio to up my fitness and cut the fat first, then transition more into upper body workouts and some lifting. But this brings up what I feel is a valid point that I think is often misrepresented here on the forums. Unless a person is doing very low resistance type cardio work, they are obviously working muscle groups to get that heart rate up, and thus preserving muscles in that area.

It depends. If you're in the horrifically-named "fat burning zone" in terms of heart rate, where a lot of people chill for a long time, you don't really push your muscles near their limits - and it's that level of exertion that keeps muscle mass. If you do shorter cardio at higher intensity, then yes, you will be pushing those muscles and maintaining muscle mass in those muscles.

I agree, but to an extent I think the "line" at where you retain muscle mass is very grey, and somewhat skewed based on nutrition almost as much, if not more than, the amount and type of exercise a person is doing. I think this also applies to bulking, with many taking the extremes as the norm. (Not claiming you are doing this though)

I learned that overall my protein levels weren't even at MFP standards most of the time unless I adjusted my diet. But yet in years of being on what many would consider the low end of protein intake, I've had no problem retaining muscle mass, and even gaining muscle mass. And in that regard, there are people that claim you can't gain muscle mass without lifting heavy. For me personally I've also found this to be another blanket statement that I've seen is untrue for me. I put quite a bit of muscle on my upper arms and shoulders at one period in my life lifting lighter weights more frequently.

And though I've never had a goal of being super thin, I would think the same would apply. If a person walks long distances slowly and keeps their heart rate down, in theory the cardio in the "fat burning zone" would be of no benefit to muscle retention and might cause muscle loss. But if that were true, anyone who never pushed themselves harder would constantly be losing muscle mass. Similar to weight loss, I think the loss of muscle mass at some point will plateau and the body will allocate nutrition as needed. Otherwise certain people would simply reach a point they were in capable of performing even that light cardio stuff.

AnvilHead

Traveler120 wrote: »

...But a trainer at the gym and other so called experts on forums said I'd lose lean mass if I didn't do weight lifting saying my form of exercise didn't count as strength training.

Well, they were wrong. My hilly hike now takes much less effort and time. I now run up hills and cycle hilly terrain that previously killed my legs. That's an indication of gaining strength, NOT losing lean mass. There's just so much BS tossed around from 'expert' trainers even when it defies common sense...

Gaining strength does not necessarily equate to maintaining/gaining lean mass. Your body undergoes neural adaptations during training which make your CNS more efficient at utilizing your existing muscle, which makes you stronger. It's quite possible, even probable, to lose (or fail to gain) lean body mass while still gaining strength via neural adaptation. So maybe those "expert" trainers weren't tossing BS around after all.

A couple references:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057313

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16464122

robertw486

AnvilHead wrote: »

Traveler120 wrote: »

...But a trainer at the gym and other so called experts on forums said I'd lose lean mass if I didn't do weight lifting saying my form of exercise didn't count as strength training.

Well, they were wrong. My hilly hike now takes much less effort and time. I now run up hills and cycle hilly terrain that previously killed my legs. That's an indication of gaining strength, NOT losing lean mass. There's just so much BS tossed around from 'expert' trainers even when it defies common sense...

Gaining strength does not necessarily equate to maintaining/gaining lean mass. Your body undergoes neural adaptations during training which make your CNS more efficient at utilizing your existing muscle, which makes you stronger. It's quite possible, even probable, to lose (or fail to gain) lean body mass while still gaining strength via neural adaptation. So maybe those "expert" trainers weren't tossing BS around after all.

A couple references:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3057313

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16464122

I agree, but on the flip side a person will only gain so much in terms of efficiency.

It's quite possible that people that think they are in recomp or bulking modes are simply fooling themselves as well, but really without more advanced measurements nobody can know for sure the total gains or losses in LBM.