Peer review request - misconceptions and myths
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M30834134
Posts: 411 Member
Hi all!
I feel pretty confident of the below list I've compiled as it came into being after a lot of reading and studying. Also, while I understand that "it works for me" is nothing but anecdotal evidence, all items on the list worked for me - so my "clinical study" population was = 1.
So, in search for either further validation or a discussion to advance my knowledge further, I'm asking your opinion - do you agree? Why? If you disagree - why?
A few common misconceptions and plain old myths I’ve seen thrown around these forums. My list is tailored for weight loss – not nutrition, which could shine a slightly different light on some of the items below. Also, assuming no medical conditions.
I feel pretty confident of the below list I've compiled as it came into being after a lot of reading and studying. Also, while I understand that "it works for me" is nothing but anecdotal evidence, all items on the list worked for me - so my "clinical study" population was = 1.
So, in search for either further validation or a discussion to advance my knowledge further, I'm asking your opinion - do you agree? Why? If you disagree - why?
A few common misconceptions and plain old myths I’ve seen thrown around these forums. My list is tailored for weight loss – not nutrition, which could shine a slightly different light on some of the items below. Also, assuming no medical conditions.
- Do not take anyone’s word or advice (including this list) – conduct your own research and possibly consult with a professional first before jumping head over feet. It’s the Internet for Christ’s sake.
- Converting body fat to muscles – simply not possible. Body fat and muscles are two biologically different tissue– body fat is passive tissue, muscle is active tissue. The only purpose body fat can be used for is energy – nothing else (well, and to piss you off).
- “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
- Muscles weigh more than fat – this statement is simply absurd. 1 pound of muscle weighs EXACTLY the same as 1 pound of body fat – ONE POUND! Muscle is denser than body fat and occupies less volume but this is completely different unit of measure.
- “Breakfast is the most important meal of the day” – not true. Timing of meals does not matter! For weight loss, all that matters is the daily caloric deficit! You can eat ALL your daily calories in ONE SITTING and still lose weight.
- To lose weight you have stop eating after XX o’clock – not true. Again, timing of meals does not matter. If cutting food after a certain hour helps you not to overeat – great! But it is not the cut of time that causes weight loss – staying within your caloric budget does!
- FAD diets, cleanses, detoxes do not work, and not sustainable – ALL OF THEM. Those are simply marketing ploys designed to extract money from naïve and uneducated consumers. If drinking goat urine makes you lose weight and you think that’s the reason – you are not very smart. Inadvertent caloric deficit which you created by drinking that crap makes you lose weight but not the crap itself.
- Drinking lemon water or apple cider vinegar to adjust PH level to burn fat – not possible. Drinking that crap does absolutely nothing as our bodies pretty sophisticated organisms and compensates for all our stupid-doing and it would not burn any fat. Do your own research but read real studies, not marketing materials.
- Starvation mode makes you gain weight – not true. Not even sure starvation mode as such exists. I’m of an opinion that our bodies do respond in some weird way when we malnutrition it and underfeed for a prolonged period of time. But undereating will not make you fat – have you ever seen any fat people in WWII concentration camps? Those people were REALLY starved, but no fat people. Hmm. Underfeeding and malnutrition your body, although, would certainly make your weight loss infinitely harder, difficult, and unpredictable.
- Insulin makes you hungry – not true. Hormones leptin and ghrelin makes you hungry, not insulin. Think about it: you got to eat first to raise your blood sugar to trigger insulin response – cant put a carriage in front of a horse.
- “Bad foods” – there are no “bad” or “good” foods for weight loss, only your behavior and portion control of any food. Give me a list of your “good” foods and I guarantee you that I can gain weight eating them! ANY food is just that – food – and if you overeat ANY of it – you will gain weight. Food has no moral meaning – it cant be bad or good. You can eat cake for breakfast, lunch, and diner and if you manage to stay within your daily caloric budget – you will lose weight (other health related issues aside).
- Eating less fatty foods will reduce your body fat – not true. This myth has been created in the eighties but there have been so many recent studies proving that neither dietary fat, nor dietary cholesterol makes any significant impact on body fat or blood cholesterol (yes, whole eggs are safe to eat).
- “Clean Eating” – such a dumb and vague term that carries no meaning! Does anyone eat “dirty” foods? “Clean Eating” has no definition – what “clean” to one can be absolute “no-no” to another. Often you see “clean” eaters post that they don’t eat any processed food but then supplement with a protein shake, which is the most processed food of all processed foods!
- “What exercises should I do to lose fat on (insert body part here)” – not possible! Spot reduce is not possible, meaning that if you want to lose fat from your stomach doing crunches and sit-ups all day long will do absolutely nothing get rid of that fat. Body fat, generally, will come off in the reverse order it was gained and that order is largely genetically predetermined and there is nothing you can do about except keep on a deficit and let the mother nature works its magic.
- Exercise calories on exercise equipment are hyper grossly over estimated. If you think 20 min on a treadmill or elliptical burned 400 calories (regardless of intensity), you are mistaken. Use common sense – in order to burn 400 calories one has to travel at least around 4 miles and extrapolate from there.
- Can you eat less than your calculated BMR? – Yes! Because the BRM number calculated is just a general approximation which could or could not apply to you. Your actual BMR could easily be 300 calories more or 300 calories less than that. You have to assess your logging and progress as you go and adjust accordingly.
- “What ratio of carb/protein/fat is the best for weight loss?” – there no such thing! For weight loss, macros do not matter – all you need is caloric deficit. Nutrition, is another matter but even still, there is no “best” – each individual responds to different macros differently – try and adjust as you go to determine what works for YOU.
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Well, 1 thing I'd like to mention: fat actually does do alot more in the body that just store energy - its far from passive tissue. In recent years, we've learned that fat cells are little hormone factories. Its a fairly recent discovery as medical research goes, and all of the implications are still being looked at, but we do know that adipocytes produce estrogen and leptin, angiotensis (which is a vasoconstrictor that helps regulate blood pressure) and adiponectin (which is involved with blood glucose regulation). Among others. And then there's brown fat, which actually burns calories to keep you warm. So, its becoming a little more clear why too much fat OR too little is really bad for you. I think it actually helps to think of fat tissue this way: its not the enemy, just one more piece of your bodily puzzle to be properly maintained for overall health.
P.S. "Starvation mode" does exist, but the cook kids around here call it "adaptive thermogenesis" to distinguish the actual metabolic phenomenon that results from long-term underfeeding from that mythic state that some people think happens if you don't eat at least 1200 calories a day for a few weeks. There are plenty of archived threads about that, as well as other sources available for the googling.0 -
My thoughts:
- Do not take anyone’s word or advice (including this list) – conduct your own research and possibly consult with a professional first before jumping head over feet. It’s the Internet for Christ’s sake.
Agree up to a point. I think it's good to consider other people's advice and past experience, and then research and experiment on your own. - Converting body fat to muscles – simply not possible. Body fat and muscles are two biologically different tissue– body fat is passive tissue, muscle is active tissue. The only purpose body fat can be used for is energy – nothing else (well, and to piss you off).
Agree - “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
Disagree. I believe that overfat non-beginners can build muscle while eating in a deficit. The amount of muscle built decreases as fat stores decrease. Returning lifters can also build in a deficit. I tend to think that the necessity for "precise" nutrition is overblown. - Muscles weigh more than fat – this statement is simply absurd. 1 pound of muscle weighs EXACTLY the same as 1 pound of body fat – ONE POUND! Muscle is denser than body fat and occupies less volume but this is completely different unit of measure.
While a cubic inch of muscle weighs the same as a cubic inch of fat (assuming they are under normal pressure), I think that it is overly pedantic to quibble over this phrasing. It's a colloquialism that very few people misunderstanding unless they are being deliberately obtuse. - “Breakfast is the most important meal of the day” – not true. Timing of meals does not matter! For weight loss, all that matters is the daily caloric deficit! You can eat ALL your daily calories in ONE SITTING and still lose weight.
Agree - To lose weight you have stop eating after XX o’clock – not true. Again, timing of meals does not matter. If cutting food after a certain hour helps you not to overeat – great! But it is not the cut of time that causes weight loss – staying within your caloric budget does!
Agree - FAD diets, cleanses, detoxes do not work, and not sustainable – ALL OF THEM. Those are simply marketing ploys designed to extract money from naïve and uneducated consumers. If drinking goat urine makes you lose weight and you think that’s the reason – you are not very smart. Inadvertent caloric deficit which you created by drinking that crap makes you lose weight but not the crap itself.
Agree - Drinking lemon water or apple cider vinegar to adjust PH level to burn fat – not possible. Drinking that crap does absolutely nothing as our bodies pretty sophisticated organisms and compensates for all our stupid-doing and it would not burn any fat. Do your own research but read real studies, not marketing materials.
Agree - Starvation mode makes you gain weight – not true. Not even sure starvation mode as such exists. I’m of an opinion that our bodies do respond in some weird way when we malnutrition it and underfeed for a prolonged period of time. But undereating will not make you fat – have you ever seen any fat people in WWII concentration camps? Those people were REALLY starved, but no fat people. Hmm. Underfeeding and malnutrition your body, although, would certainly make your weight loss infinitely harder, difficult, and unpredictable.
Agree. Eating too little can slow/delay weight loss through the increase of cortisol, which may result in water retention that masks ongoing fat loss. But the fat loss is still happening and people are not gaining fat by eating too little. - Insulin makes you hungry – not true. Hormones leptin and ghrelin makes you hungry, not insulin. Think about it: you got to eat first to raise your blood sugar to trigger insulin response – cant put a carriage in front of a horse.
I have no opinion on this. - “Bad foods” – there are no “bad” or “good” foods for weight loss, only your behavior and portion control of any food. Give me a list of your “good” foods and I guarantee you that I can gain weight eating them! ANY food is just that – food – and if you overeat ANY of it – you will gain weight. Food has no moral meaning – it cant be bad or good. You can eat cake for breakfast, lunch, and diner and if you manage to stay within your daily caloric budget – you will lose weight (other health related issues aside).
Agree - Eating less fatty foods will reduce your body fat – not true. This myth has been created in the eighties but there have been so many recent studies proving that neither dietary fat, nor dietary cholesterol makes any significant impact on body fat or blood cholesterol (yes, whole eggs are safe to eat).
Agree - “Clean Eating” – such a dumb and vague term that carries no meaning! Does anyone eat “dirty” foods? “Clean Eating” has no definition – what “clean” to one can be absolute “no-no” to another. Often you see “clean” eaters post that they don’t eat any processed food but then supplement with a protein shake, which is the most processed food of all processed foods!
Agree - “What exercises should I do to lose fat on (insert body part here)” – not possible! Spot reduce is not possible, meaning that if you want to lose fat from your stomach doing crunches and sit-ups all day long will do absolutely nothing get rid of that fat. Body fat, generally, will come off in the reverse order it was gained and that order is largely genetically predetermined and there is nothing you can do about except keep on a deficit and let the mother nature works its magic.
Agree - Exercise calories on exercise equipment are hyper grossly over estimated. If you think 20 min on a treadmill or elliptical burned 400 calories (regardless of intensity), you are mistaken. Use common sense – in order to burn 400 calories one has to travel at least around 4 miles and extrapolate from there.
Disagree to a point. Exercise calories on machines are based on best estimate formulas, which certainly tend to be off but "hyper grossly" may be pushing it based on the size/age/weight/etc of the individuals using them. - Can you eat less than your calculated BMR? – Yes! Because the BRM number calculated is just a general approximation which could or could not apply to you. Your actual BMR could easily be 300 calories more or 300 calories less than that. You have to assess your logging and progress as you go and adjust accordingly.
Agreed. Formulas are best estimates. Use them to start, track your progress, and adjust from there. - “What ratio of carb/protein/fat is the best for weight loss?” – there no such thing! For weight loss, macros do not matter – all you need is caloric deficit. Nutrition, is another matter but even still, there is no “best” – each individual responds to different macros differently – try and adjust as you go to determine what works for YOU.
Agree
0 - Do not take anyone’s word or advice (including this list) – conduct your own research and possibly consult with a professional first before jumping head over feet. It’s the Internet for Christ’s sake.
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My thoughts:
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[3] “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
[4] Muscles weigh more than fat – this statement is simply absurd. 1 pound of muscle weighs EXACTLY the same as 1 pound of body fat – ONE POUND! Muscle is denser than body fat and occupies less volume but this is completely different unit of measure.
While a cubic inch of muscle weighs the same as a cubic inch of fat (assuming they are under normal pressure), I think that it is overly pedantic to quibble over this phrasing. It's a colloquialism that very few people misunderstanding unless they are being deliberately obtuse.
[15] Exercise calories on exercise equipment are hyper grossly over estimated. If you think 20 min on a treadmill or elliptical burned 400 calories (regardless of intensity), you are mistaken. Use common sense – in order to burn 400 calories one has to travel at least around 4 miles and extrapolate from there.
Disagree to a point. Exercise calories on machines are based on best estimate formulas, which certainly tend to be off but "hyper grossly" may be pushing it based on the size/age/weight/etc of the individuals using them.
@jemhh, thanks for the input. While building new muscles while on a deficit might be possible, I think the statement "practically impossible" would still be accurate for the most of us. And in order to achieve the gains - macros would play huge role.
Regarding the weight and volume of muscle and fat - I disagree. Muscle is about 18% more dense than fat - it cannot possibly weigh the same by volume. One cubic inch of fat will be 18% less dense than onc cubic inch of muscle and one cubic inch of fat will weigh less than one cubic inch of muscle.0 -
You are misunderstanding the meanings of "peer review" and "research."
n=1? Seriously?
What you have is a nice summary of concepts and your opinions about those concepts. It isn't research.0 -
+1 on the density thing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001 has some insulin / hunger thoughts. I think injecting insulin into the brain (probably in mice) does affect hunger.
I do not believe weight loss to be completely independent of macros as several higher protein gives better weight loss studies would suggest.0 -
azulvioleta6 wrote: »You are misunderstanding the meanings of "peer review" and "research."
n=1? Seriously?
What you have is a nice summary of concepts and your opinions about those concepts. It isn't research.
I believe you may have misunderstood. He's asking for the review of his peers on MFP, in tongue-in-cheek way. And doing research does not necessarily mean conducting clinical studies. It can also mean reading up on your topic. He is not presenting this as research, but saying its the result of the reading he has done, as well has his personal experience. Its just colloquial and light-hearted speaking.0 -
#8 I'll also add is GODAWFUL for your dental health. If you really feel the need to drink lemon juice, I mean so be it, but protect your chompers, they don't grow back...0
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azulvioleta6 wrote: »You are misunderstanding the meanings of "peer review" and "research."
n=1? Seriously?
What you have is a nice summary of concepts and your opinions about those concepts. It isn't research.
@azulvioleta6, you might need to re-read my post to find that I never called this "research" - you did. While I'm aware of the definition of "peer review", the use of it feels appropriate - we are all on this site to lose weight and become healthier - we are all peers to each other. I'm sorry I was not clear that my post was not a dissertation, just a post on the internet. Thank you for participation.0 -
- Do not take anyone’s word or advice (including this list) – conduct your own research and possibly consult with a professional first before jumping head over feet. It’s the Internet for Christ’s sake.
Agree - consulting with a professional is always wise, this is a super challenging endeavor, why WOULDN'T you want to get as much support as possible? Appropriate professional means a dietitian, psychologist, and/or physician who specializes in weight management. For exercise alone, a physical trainer with a strong background. - Converting body fat to muscles – simply not possible. Body fat and muscles are two biologically different tissue– body fat is passive tissue, muscle is active tissue. The only purpose body fat can be used for is energy – nothing else (well, and to piss you off).
As someone else said, fat is a hormonal engine. - “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
This is probably not entirely true, it is possible to put on muscle while losing weight, but it's not easy or efficient, and usually the idea that you are not losing weight because of new muscles vastly overestimates how quickly muscles are built and underestimates how much more likely it is that someone simply isn't actually in caloric deficit. - Muscles weigh more than fat – this statement is simply absurd. 1 pound of muscle weighs EXACTLY the same as 1 pound of body fat – ONE POUND! Muscle is denser than body fat and occupies less volume but this is completely different unit of measure.
It's absurd but also understandable given the shortcuts that we take with language. People mean that it is denser when they say that. Also, not actually worth arguing about. - “Breakfast is the most important meal of the day” – not true. Timing of meals does not matter! For weight loss, all that matters is the daily caloric deficit! You can eat ALL your daily calories in ONE SITTING and still lose weight.
Timing of meals very likely does matter in the sense of our circadian rhythms and hormones. If you have a metabolic issue such as diabetes, timing will be more important. On the other hand, if confining y our eating to one sitting works super well for you and your lifestyle and allows you to more easily eat at a deficit, go for it. - To lose weight you have stop eating after XX o’clock – not true. Again, timing of meals does not matter. If cutting food after a certain hour helps you not to overeat – great! But it is not the cut of time that causes weight loss – staying within your caloric budget does!
Timing may matter, there are rat studies suggesting an effect. Whether this is true in humans, tbd. Again, find what works for you. - FAD diets, cleanses, detoxes do not work, and not sustainable – ALL OF THEM. Those are simply marketing ploys designed to extract money from naïve and uneducated consumers. If drinking goat urine makes you lose weight and you think that’s the reason – you are not very smart. Inadvertent caloric deficit which you created by drinking that crap makes you lose weight but not the crap itself.
Agreed - Drinking lemon water or apple cider vinegar to adjust PH level to burn fat – not possible. Drinking that crap does absolutely nothing as our bodies pretty sophisticated organisms and compensates for all our stupid-doing and it would not burn any fat. Do your own research but read real studies, not marketing materials.
Agreed - Starvation mode makes you gain weight – not true. Not even sure starvation mode as such exists. I’m of an opinion that our bodies do respond in some weird way when we malnutrition it and underfeed for a prolonged period of time. But undereating will not make you fat – have you ever seen any fat people in WWII concentration camps? Those people were REALLY starved, but no fat people. Hmm. Underfeeding and malnutrition your body, although, would certainly make your weight loss infinitely harder, difficult, and unpredictable.
Agreed that underfeeding can make things harder, does not account for weight gain. - Insulin makes you hungry – not true. Hormones leptin and ghrelin makes you hungry, not insulin. Think about it: you got to eat first to raise your blood sugar to trigger insulin response – cant put a carriage in front of a horse.
I think blood sugar falls post spikes can be perceived as hunger - “Bad foods” – there are no “bad” or “good” foods for weight loss, only your behavior and portion control of any food. Give me a list of your “good” foods and I guarantee you that I can gain weight eating them! ANY food is just that – food – and if you overeat ANY of it – you will gain weight. Food has no moral meaning – it cant be bad or good. You can eat cake for breakfast, lunch, and diner and if you manage to stay within your daily caloric budget – you will lose weight (other health related issues aside).
Celery? Agreed though. - Eating less fatty foods will reduce your body fat – not true. This myth has been created in the eighties but there have been so many recent studies proving that neither dietary fat, nor dietary cholesterol makes any significant impact on body fat or blood cholesterol (yes, whole eggs are safe to eat).
Agreed - if calories are kept even, low fat doesn't matter. For some people (volume eaters) - switching to lower fat should help by lowering calories, though. - “Clean Eating” – such a dumb and vague term that carries no meaning! Does anyone eat “dirty” foods? “Clean Eating” has no definition – what “clean” to one can be absolute “no-no” to another. Often you see “clean” eaters post that they don’t eat any processed food but then supplement with a protein shake, which is the most processed food of all processed foods!
Agreed - “What exercises should I do to lose fat on (insert body part here)” – not possible! Spot reduce is not possible, meaning that if you want to lose fat from your stomach doing crunches and sit-ups all day long will do absolutely nothing get rid of that fat. Body fat, generally, will come off in the reverse order it was gained and that order is largely genetically predetermined and there is nothing you can do about except keep on a deficit and let the mother nature works its magic.
Agreed, although you may be able to somewhat target certain shape through specific resistance training, it's not reducing the fat but increasing muscle in strategic areas. - Exercise calories on exercise equipment are hyper grossly over estimated. If you think 20 min on a treadmill or elliptical burned 400 calories (regardless of intensity), you are mistaken. Use common sense – in order to burn 400 calories one has to travel at least around 4 miles and extrapolate from there.
Agreed - Can you eat less than your calculated BMR? – Yes! Because the BRM number calculated is just a general approximation which could or could not apply to you. Your actual BMR could easily be 300 calories more or 300 calories less than that. You have to assess your logging and progress as you go and adjust accordingly.
Yes, but I would argue to start out higher so you have room to cut if your weight loss is too slow for you, rather than the other way around. - “What ratio of carb/protein/fat is the best for weight loss?” – there no such thing! For weight loss, macros do not matter – all you need is caloric deficit. Nutrition, is another matter but even still, there is no “best” – each individual responds to different macros differently – try and adjust as you go to determine what works for YOU.
Well, certain ratios may help you adhere to your calorie goals more easily. I do best on a 40-30-30 ratio.
0 - Do not take anyone’s word or advice (including this list) – conduct your own research and possibly consult with a professional first before jumping head over feet. It’s the Internet for Christ’s sake.
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+1 on the density thing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001 has some insulin / hunger thoughts. I think injecting insulin into the brain (probably in mice) does affect hunger.
I do not believe weight loss to be completely independent of macros as several higher protein gives better weight loss studies would suggest.
Thanks for the link
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Food for thought...perhaps when people say "starvation mode" what they really mean is a change in metabolic rate. Meaning, our metabolism responds to intake and burn of calories and the rate that it happens. The less you take in the less you move (energy and lethargy) and the rate you burn decreases which makes your body slow down the metabolism which would burn energy slower and therefore slow down the weight loss. At least that's my understanding.0
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Food for thought...perhaps when people say "starvation mode" what they really mean is a change in metabolic rate. Meaning, our metabolism responds to intake and burn of calories and the rate that it happens. The less you take in the less you move (energy and lethargy) and the rate you burn decreases which makes your body slow down the metabolism which would burn energy slower and therefore slow down the weight loss. At least that's my understanding.
I'm sure that's what they mean, but it is still inaccurate. Your body DOES respond to caloric deficit by making you want to eat more and or move less, that lethargy that you're talking about. But it takes a very long time for metabolic rate to decline to a point that you are incapable of losing weight (if that is even possible, no one has proved it is), and that's the crux of the argument. People hear "starvation mode" and are told that they will cease to lose weight unless they eat more calories, and that is fundamentally incorrect. Your metabolism will not reach such a low that your deficit wouldn't still cause weight loss.
"Some studies have found no significant reduction in metabolism until the caloric restriction is quite large (e.g. 800 calories or less per day).2 Others suggest a linear relationship with small reductions in metabolism accompanying small reductions in caloric restriction, with the gap increasing as the caloric deficit is enlarged. While there is no biologic evidence to support the "starvation mode" myth, there may be behavioral reasons why weight loss stops when calories are severely reduced. Over-restriction of calorie intake, known as high dietary restraint is linked to periods of overeating, hindering successful weight loss"
http://www.weightwatchers.com/util/art/index_art.aspx?tabnum=1&art_id=35501
I'm not saying we discount any of the relationship between metabolism and caloric deficit, but to wantonly state (not you in particular, but folk) that if you aren't losing weight you should eat more is harmful and inaccurate.0 -
Not a bad post except the 'muscle weighs more than fat' part (got to be really obtuse IMO not to understand what people mean) and the 'good food, bad food' part. I think that way too many people on MFP are just in denial that there are, in fact, some foods that are indeed healthier than others (what a concept!).0
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Just number 4.
Muscle DOES weigh more than fat. When checking something for density, you weigh equal VOLUME of materials. So 1 liter of muscle will weigh more than 1 liter of fat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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My thoughts:
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[3] “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
[4] Muscles weigh more than fat – this statement is simply absurd. 1 pound of muscle weighs EXACTLY the same as 1 pound of body fat – ONE POUND! Muscle is denser than body fat and occupies less volume but this is completely different unit of measure.
While a cubic inch of muscle weighs the same as a cubic inch of fat (assuming they are under normal pressure), I think that it is overly pedantic to quibble over this phrasing. It's a colloquialism that very few people misunderstanding unless they are being deliberately obtuse.
[15] Exercise calories on exercise equipment are hyper grossly over estimated. If you think 20 min on a treadmill or elliptical burned 400 calories (regardless of intensity), you are mistaken. Use common sense – in order to burn 400 calories one has to travel at least around 4 miles and extrapolate from there.
Disagree to a point. Exercise calories on machines are based on best estimate formulas, which certainly tend to be off but "hyper grossly" may be pushing it based on the size/age/weight/etc of the individuals using them.
@jemhh, thanks for the input. While building new muscles while on a deficit might be possible, I think the statement "practically impossible" would still be accurate for the most of us. And in order to achieve the gains - macros would play huge role.
Regarding the weight and volume of muscle and fat - I disagree. Muscle is about 18% more dense than fat - it cannot possibly weigh the same by volume. One cubic inch of fat will be 18% less dense than onc cubic inch of muscle and one cubic inch of fat will weigh less than one cubic inch of muscle.
Sorry, I just went back and reread what I wrote. I meant to say that muscle is more dense than fat and weighs more per square inch. That is correct. I truly believe that is what people mean when they say "muscle weighs more than fat."
I do disagree about muscle gain during fat loss being "practically impossible" for most of us though. I suppose we could do a forum count but I believe there are more overfat people on MFP than there are people with okay body fat just trying to slim down. In my real life, meaning offline, being overweight/overfat is very common in my peer group, which I'll define as midwesterners ages 30-50. It's something I didn't notice as much before I lost weight, likely because I just blended in.
I think that macros play a role but the necessity of being "spot on" or "precise", as you wrote, is overstated. People make things more complicated than necessary IMO. Eat your protein to help retain muscle, get enough fat to keep your hormones in check and absorb vitamins, and then let the remaining calories fall where they will.0 -
+1 on the density thing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001 has some insulin / hunger thoughts. I think injecting insulin into the brain (probably in mice) does affect hunger.
I do not believe weight loss to be completely independent of macros as several higher protein gives better weight loss studies would suggest.
I would be interested in reading such studies. Something came out last spring, maybe late April, about food labels overstating the calories in higher protein foods. I believe I read it in the New York Times. If that is the case, calorie counters would be eating fewer calories than they think. It would affect those on high protein diets even more.0 -
Exactly right.0
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+1 on the density thing.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3894001 has some insulin / hunger thoughts. I think injecting insulin into the brain (probably in mice) does affect hunger.
I do not believe weight loss to be completely independent of macros as several higher protein gives better weight loss studies would suggest.
This is often ignored but the amount of energy used to digest the different macronutrients varies leaving you with a different net energy expenditure at the same calorie level with varying macronutrient ratios
"Protein takes the most energy to digest (20-30% of total calories in protein eaten go to digesting it). Next is carbohydrates (5-10%) and then fats (0-3%).
Thus, if you eat 100 calories from protein, your body uses 20-30 of those calories to digest and absorb the protein. You’d be left with a net 70-80 calories. Pure carbohydrate would leave you with a net 90-95 calories, and fat would give you a net 97-100 calories."
http://www.precisionnutrition.com/digesting-whole-vs-processed-foods0 -
I agree with most of that, but I did want to comment on this (probably very contentious) one:[*] “You are not losing weight because you’re gaining new muscles” – building new muscles while on a caloric deficit is practically impossible. Our bodies cant build new tissue out of nothing (caloric deficit). There is only one rare short-time window of opportunity for building new muscle tissue while on caloric deficit is at the beginning of weight loss (beginners gain) and it requires careful planning, precise nutrition, and properly structured exercise routine.
Your body still has plenty of energy in a deficit - some calories are coming from your diet and some are coming from your body's own fat stores. As long as you have fat remaining, you have energy available. Your muscle doesn't actually know whether that energy came from within or without.
The main reason people argue that you can't build muscle in a deficit is because of hormones - particularly the lowered insulin levels from fasting. The thing to remember here is that insulin is dynamic, with everyone having periods of high and low insulin. Even if you're on a deficit, your insulin is elevated for hours after a meal. Sure, eventually it'll come down again, and over a full 24 hour period it will be lower than if you were on a surplus, but there are definite periods of high insulin levels. Also, insulin isn't the only hormone or pathway involved in muscle anabolism.
It is absolutely true that the rate of muscle catabolism is raised, and the rate of muscle anabolism is lowered, when on a calorie deficit. However, this doesn't make it impossible to have gains, particularly if there are other factors involved. For example, people who are new to strength training see huge gains because they are starting from a very low place, and then those plateau off as you get closer to your peak potential.
From what I've seen in the medical literature, and from my knowledge of biology, the most likely thing is that a calorie deficit acts like a "ceiling" below your full genetic potential. If your current body state is still well below the "ceiling", you can still rise towards that limit, but you won't exceed that limit until you're off the deficit. The higher the deficit, the lower that ceiling. Anyone who is already above that "ceiling" (i.e. someone that was already intermediate / advanced at lifting) would start to lose some muscle in the deficit.
That intuitively makes sense - if you were at, say, a three calorie deficit for the day, your body isn't going to slam the brakes on all muscle growth, but if you were at a 3,000 calorie deficit it probably would.0 -
I do not believe weight loss to be completely independent of macros as several higher protein gives better weight loss studies would suggest.
That could be either because they conserve more muscle mass, or just because protein is less efficient to metabolize - your body only can extract about 75% as much energy as it can for an equal number of calories of fat or carbs. (However, since the remaining 25% is lost as heat, your body might slow down other thermogenesis and spend less energy elsewhere, making up for some of the inefficiency in protein metabolism).0
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