Tips!
buttonbot
Posts: 5 Member
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
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Replies
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Calories are probably the most significant on a bulk after hitting your minimums. Yeah I could eat 500 grams of just protein a day, but that would only put me at 2000 calories. It's all about hitting your minimums and creating a caloric surplus. Also, there is nothing wrong with incorporating "junk or dirty foods" to a diet that is already nutritionally sound. If they help you reach your macros, then incorporate them. And saturated fats are not as harmful as we once thought. Of course the unsaturated/poly/mono are healthier from a nutrition standpoint, Saturated fats are fine to incorporate into a diet. Trans are the ones to avoid. I'm not trying to go against you in your post, just trying to help. Creating a balanced macronutrients diet in a bulk and hitting your minimums for proteins and fats are most important. As well as creating that surplus of calories that can come from any macro preferred.0
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I know about the whole calorie thing and how more is merrier depending on your diet, but some people are afraid of calories and automatically associate them with being "fat." These people probably are recovering from an eating disorder which made them afraid of calories (Ana, Mia, etc.) but they still want to gain weight. I was just attempting to loop around that fear and help them reach their goals without making them feel like they are "un-healthy" and ultimately quitting and going back to their old habits. I know all of the things you are telling me are true and I really appreciate your help and trying to show me the right way!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!
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You do realize that protein can convert to glucose if eat in excess (glucogensis)? And a diet that is mainly protein will lack important nutrients such as fat which regulates hormone product, can increase satiety, and increase nutrient absorption and carbs which increase energy. Additionally, carbs help activate insulin which delivers nutrients. On top of that studies have shown that protein over 1g lb lb of lean body mass isn't really effective.. If you want to increase weight, you should be hitting all 3 macronutrients.
Personally, while I admire your effort, it doesn't address the issues that most people recovering have.. which really need to be addressed with a therapist.0 -
ps - generally for bulking, people suggest around .8 to 1g of protein per lb of lean body mass, .35-.6g of fat and the rest in carbs... obviously some personal variation can occur.0
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Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
I think the biggest problem with this is that you have created a false dichotomy.
The only choices aren't "eat all the junk" or "max out protein".
The guidelines psulemon outlined above are much better advice. Going above that amount of protein is both unnecessary from a nutrition standpoint and unnecessarily expensive.
Contrary to your advice I and many others find much more progress on a bulk by upping carbs first and foremost0 -
juggernaut1974 wrote: »Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
I think the biggest problem with this is that you have created a false dichotomy.
The only choices aren't "eat all the junk" or "max out protein".
The guidelines psulemon outlined above are much better advice. Going above that amount of protein is both unnecessary from a nutrition standpoint and unnecessarily expensive.
Contrary to your advice I and many others find much more progress on a bulk by upping carbs first and foremost
Another thing to consider is an all protein diet would generally mean low veggie and fruit intake. This would eliminate a lot of micronutrients which are important to health and fiver which is good for gi health. On top of that it creates another environment that xx foods are good and yy foods are bad. This in hand would not teach someone with a bad food relationship to address their issues. It, actually, would furthet insinuate that all food beside protein is bad for you.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….0 -
I know about the whole calorie thing and how more is merrier depending on your diet, but some people are afraid of calories and automatically associate them with being "fat." These people probably are recovering from an eating disorder which made them afraid of calories (Ana, Mia, etc.) but they still want to gain weight. I was just attempting to loop around that fear and help them reach their goals without making them feel like they are "un-healthy" and ultimately quitting and going back to their old habits. I know all of the things you are telling me are true and I really appreciate your help and trying to show me the right way!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!
so you want to help those with an eating disorder by fear mongering certain food as "junk" and telling them to just eat protein all day? I fail to see how that helps. those with an eating disorder need to know that it is OK to eat calorie dense food and that gaining weight does not equal 100% fat gain.
Please stop, and I would request that this thread be deleted as it contains so much false information and fear mongering that any newbie, lurker, etc reading this, may take it as fact and actually try to do what OP is advocating.0 -
I know about the whole calorie thing and how more is merrier depending on your diet, but some people are afraid of calories and automatically associate them with being "fat." These people probably are recovering from an eating disorder which made them afraid of calories (Ana, Mia, etc.) but they still want to gain weight. I was just attempting to loop around that fear and help them reach their goals without making them feel like they are "un-healthy" and ultimately quitting and going back to their old habits. I know all of the things you are telling me are true and I really appreciate your help and trying to show me the right way!!!!!!!!!! Thank you!
so you want to help those with an eating disorder by fear mongering certain food as "junk" and telling them to just eat protein all day? I fail to see how that helps. those with an eating disorder need to know that it is OK to eat calorie dense food and that gaining weight does not equal 100% fat gain.
Please stop, and I would request that this thread be deleted as it contains so much false information and fear mongering that any newbie, lurker, etc reading this, may take it as fact and actually try to do what OP is advocating.
Agreed unless you are trained in dealing with these disorders giving advice is not a good idea....esp this kind of advice.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I have eaten Oreo's but I've never been able to eat just 4-5 cookies, one piece of junk food, or a few chips. Those have lots of calories as well but there is many more options....
So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together as much as possible. Don't denie yourself but don't start down a path that often leads to disaster. People often want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
Also, if we are talking about bulking we're not just talking about gaining weight. We are talking about building muscle. Maybe there should be separate forums, but people really shouldn't come here to ask advice if it's an eating disorder, that is where a DT and other Doctors come into play.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
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Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
If it's just about gaining weight with no goal to build muscle, then it also makes your argument to get insulin spikes confusing, if it's just a eating disorder. It's oranges apples at that point.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
I have said this a thousand times, but I guess I will repeat it for the thousandth and one time; yes, all calories are the same from an ENERGY standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same. I have never said that all calories create the same insulin response in ones body. Are you just choosing to ignore what I say, or are you not comprehending it?
So the answer to my question is that you really do not know? As for cell growth, what additional benefit to cell growth would you get by eating an additional 100 grams of say, fiber?
0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
I have said this a thousand times, but I guess I will repeat it for the thousandth and one time; yes, all calories are the same from an ENERGY standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same. I have never said that all calories create the same insulin response in ones body. Are you just choosing to ignore what I say, or are you not comprehending it?
So the answer to my question is that you really do not know? As for cell growth, what additional benefit to cell growth would you get by eating an additional 100 grams of say, fiber?
The problem is you won't eat 100 grams of fiber. So, it's not even possible to answer. If you gave an actual food it would be easier to answer. 100 grams of fiber is a lot to achieve.
Instead I'll use the Oreo's and ice cream recommendation you always leave.
If you ate 6 oreos, and most of the calories are fat, carbs and sugar 270 calories to be exact. What is the benefit of that, and how do you know it's going to be stored as glycogen and not mainly fat? The answer you don't. So, it becomes fill to just fill since the food has no bonus benefit of nutrition. And since the oreos are a insulin sensitive food, eating to full calories seems strange. Or do you not believe that insulin causes fat to store after glycogen stores are full no matter if you only had 300 total calories or 3000?0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
I have said this a thousand times, but I guess I will repeat it for the thousandth and one time; yes, all calories are the same from an ENERGY standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same. I have never said that all calories create the same insulin response in ones body. Are you just choosing to ignore what I say, or are you not comprehending it?
So the answer to my question is that you really do not know? As for cell growth, what additional benefit to cell growth would you get by eating an additional 100 grams of say, fiber?
The problem is you won't eat 100 grams of fiber. So, it's not even possible to answer. If you gave an actual food it would be easier to answer. 100 grams of fiber is a lot to achieve.
Instead I'll use the Oreo's and ice cream recommendation you always leave.
If you ate 6 oreos, and most of the calories are fat, carbs and sugar 270 calories to be exact. What is the benefit of that, and how do you know it's going to be stored as glycogen and not mainly fat? The answer you don't. So, it becomes fill to just fill since the food has no bonus benefit of nutrition. And since the oreos are a insulin sensitive food, eating to full calories seems strange. Or do you not believe that insulin causes fat to store after glycogen stores are full no matter if you only had 300 total calories or 3000?
Do you still not realize that you are in the gaining forum? Again, meet your micros first, hit macro minimums, fill in the rest with calorie dense foods. The added benefit from the Oreo calories is that when one is trying to put on weight CALORIES are king.
The fact that you refuse to answer my question is very telling. You just want to spout off about a calorie is not a calorie and not address anything else.
0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
Also, if we are talking about bulking we're not just talking about gaining weight. We are talking about building muscle. Maybe there should be separate forums, but people really shouldn't come here to ask advice if it's an eating disorder, that is where a DT and other Doctors come into play.
Because Oreos are delicious....the benefit is them passing over my tastebuds.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
I have said this a thousand times, but I guess I will repeat it for the thousandth and one time; yes, all calories are the same from an ENERGY standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same. I have never said that all calories create the same insulin response in ones body. Are you just choosing to ignore what I say, or are you not comprehending it?
So the answer to my question is that you really do not know? As for cell growth, what additional benefit to cell growth would you get by eating an additional 100 grams of say, fiber?
The problem is you won't eat 100 grams of fiber. So, it's not even possible to answer. If you gave an actual food it would be easier to answer. 100 grams of fiber is a lot to achieve.
Instead I'll use the Oreo's and ice cream recommendation you always leave.
If you ate 6 oreos, and most of the calories are fat, carbs and sugar 270 calories to be exact. What is the benefit of that, and how do you know it's going to be stored as glycogen and not mainly fat? The answer you don't. So, it becomes fill to just fill since the food has no bonus benefit of nutrition. And since the oreos are a insulin sensitive food, eating to full calories seems strange. Or do you not believe that insulin causes fat to store after glycogen stores are full no matter if you only had 300 total calories or 3000?
Do you still not realize that you are in the gaining forum? Again, meet your micros first, hit macro minimums, fill in the rest with calorie dense foods. The added benefit from the Oreo calories is that when one is trying to put on weight CALORIES are king.
The fact that you refuse to answer my question is very telling. You just want to spout off about a calorie is not a calorie and not address anything else.
I answered your question, unless you mean the 100 grams of fiber? What food and quantity of that food is giving you this amount of fiber? It's not a realistic question and impossible to answer!
Yes, calories are king, but not empty calories that can and do raise blood sugar levels. Or calories that can and do cause fat to store are not something to be recommending people in bulk or a cut, unless the goal is to gain muscle without caring about fat at all aka the dirty bulk.
Most eating disorders are to get people to maintenance, so eating sugary food makes no sense for them as sugar makes people more hungry which would be hard to control, and spikes insulin which is not always good depending on what we are talking about...
Bulks are really to gain muscle, with minimum fat as possible, yes you gain some fat eating more foods/calories ,but you should be trying to gain as little fat as possible, unless like I said someone doesn't care.. Eat your junk food, but not as a fixed diet.
So, there is not a real reason to eat cookies beside one guy said" it taste good." Not to mention, you can achieve an insulin spike with more nutritional food, that overall is healthy for you, will gain muscle, building more strength, and overall recovery just blatantly has more benefits, instead of just filling calories... By eating this healthier food you can help cover loss of absorption on micros and macros helping the process further as no one knows what is really lost in digestion/consumption. Done.
0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
so you are going to answer my question with a question?
The obvious benefit is the insulin spike you get from the additional carbs, which I have stated several times.
As we are referring to bulking, one is going to gain fat in a bulk, which is inevitable.
I eagerly await your explanation as to what benefit you get from exceeding micros once they have already been met.
I'm really confused, insulin spikes is your answer for filling calories, that is food timing. I thought you believe all calorie are the same, pretty sure we discussed this before, oh yeah it fits your argument now. How interesting.
My answer to your question is that you don't know the absorption rate, and if we are talking about bulking, which usually correlates with some cardio, weight training one needs more nutrition to repair cell growth. No one will know the correct answer of what is needed, so it's usually best to go over on micros and macros, as the body will use what it needs and rest will be waste. It's very important to make sure you have a little breathing room as one gains more mass.
I have said this a thousand times, but I guess I will repeat it for the thousandth and one time; yes, all calories are the same from an ENERGY standpoint; however, they are not nutritionally the same. I have never said that all calories create the same insulin response in ones body. Are you just choosing to ignore what I say, or are you not comprehending it?
So the answer to my question is that you really do not know? As for cell growth, what additional benefit to cell growth would you get by eating an additional 100 grams of say, fiber?
The problem is you won't eat 100 grams of fiber. So, it's not even possible to answer. If you gave an actual food it would be easier to answer. 100 grams of fiber is a lot to achieve.
Instead I'll use the Oreo's and ice cream recommendation you always leave.
If you ate 6 oreos, and most of the calories are fat, carbs and sugar 270 calories to be exact. What is the benefit of that, and how do you know it's going to be stored as glycogen and not mainly fat? The answer you don't. So, it becomes fill to just fill since the food has no bonus benefit of nutrition. And since the oreos are a insulin sensitive food, eating to full calories seems strange. Or do you not believe that insulin causes fat to store after glycogen stores are full no matter if you only had 300 total calories or 3000?
Do you still not realize that you are in the gaining forum? Again, meet your micros first, hit macro minimums, fill in the rest with calorie dense foods. The added benefit from the Oreo calories is that when one is trying to put on weight CALORIES are king.
The fact that you refuse to answer my question is very telling. You just want to spout off about a calorie is not a calorie and not address anything else.
I answered your question, unless you mean the 100 grams of fiber? What food and quantity of that food is giving you this amount of fiber? It's not a realistic question and impossible to answer!
Yes, calories are king, but not empty calories that can and do raise blood sugar levels. Or calories that can and do cause fat to store are not something to be recommending people in bulk or a cut, unless the goal is to gain muscle without caring about fat at all aka the dirty bulk.
Most eating disorders are to get people to maintenance, so eating sugary food makes no sense for them as sugar makes people more hungry which would be hard to control, and spikes insulin which is not always good depending on what we are talking about...
Bulks are really to gain muscle, with minimum fat as possible, yes you gain some fat eating more foods/calories ,but you should be trying to gain as little fat as possible, unless like I said someone doesn't care.. Eat your junk food, but not as a fixed diet.
So, there is not a real reason to eat cookies beside one guy said" it taste good." Not to mention, you can achieve an insulin spike with more nutritional food, that overall is healthy for you, will gain muscle, building more strength, and overall recovery just blatantly has more benefits, instead of just filling calories... By eating this healthier food you can help cover loss of absorption on micros and macros helping the process further as no one knows what is really lost in digestion/consumption. Done.
No calorie is empty as they all provide the same unit of energy. If you hit your surplus eating 250 calories of oreos or 250 calories of carrots, do you really think there is going to be a significant different in fat gained by the oreo person vs the carrot person?
I eat cookies because they taste great, help me hit my calorie goal, and fill in my carb and fat macro.
Again, no one is espousing a diet of 100% calorie dense food. What part of meet your micro and macro minimums and then fill in as you please, do you not understand?
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didn't read the rest of the replies but I'm sure someone counter argued these "tips" lol
I seriously was annoyed reading this. "eat only protein:D you'll make all kinds of gains!" (obviously I mocked OPs post) You need your carbs, your fats, and your protein. It really does not matter what you eat but its usually advised to avoid "unhealthy" foods as you call it because it can create bad habits.
Everyone's body is different. you have to find what works for you. You can only take advice so far because what works for me might not work for you and surely my bulk was to say the least..."unhealthy"
I ate poptarts, pizza, hamburgers...while making sure I met my protein goals. That kind of diet will not work for everyone.0 -
Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
yea, no.
calories are king when you need to bulk, and one should focus on carbs over protein a bulk due to the insuin response that carbs create.
Once once has met their micronutrient and macronutrient needs, there is nothing wrong with filling in your calories with ice cream, bagels, oreos, pasta, etc.
I need 3200 calories to gain about a pound per week, no way I can get to 3200 on chicken, rice, and vegetables.
and no one is advocating a diet of 100% oreos on a bulk, so your premise about eating " a bunch of junk food" is seriously flawed.
I think you need to go back to the drawing board and get a better grasp of nutrition and caloric intake when bulking.
good and bad fat was debunked in the 90's….
Yeah, there is nothing wrong with recommending foods loaded with sugar once in a while. What I'm curious about is if the Oreo's become a stable of the persons diet. If they eat crap foods just to fill everyday or not.
Oreo's, Ice-cream, so nutritious, no fiber, processed to death, insignificant macros and micros, nothing but empty calories foods.
I believe 5-6 Oreo's is like 260-300 calories. Of course who eats Oreo's with no Milk, so add that cup of whole, reduce fat, skim milk, whatever the milk is, 110-180 calories more. And this is where people get into trouble! It's easier to indulge on these foods because the sugar is addicting.
OP-, don't get lazy and just fill foods, try to eat calorie dense foods that are not loaded with sugar. It's ok to indulge, but cookies everyday is not the way to go. Even if you need 500 more calories. There is coconut oil, nuts, and loads of other foods that will do the job. The problem is people often take the easier way, which may or not be the correct way. I don't eat Oreos but I've never been able to eat just a 4-5 cookies, one piece... So, for many it's best to avoid this situation all together Those people want their cake and eat it too, pun intended.
Oreo's are a perfect way to fill in your carb macro when bulking. Again, I specifically said get your micros first and THEN fill in with calorie dense foods. What part of that do you not understand? Please explain to me the additional benefit you get from additional micronutrients? In case you missed it, we are specifically talking about gaining weight here. I think that you are lost and think that this is the general diet and weight loss forum.
I'll answer your question like this, what is the extra benefit of adding more carbs, (especially processed empty calories like Oreo's) if the body can only store some much glycogen.
What do you think will happen if you already had enough glycogen at 2000 calories and you still have 1000 more calories to go.
Also, if we are talking about bulking we're not just talking about gaining weight. We are talking about building muscle. Maybe there should be separate forums, but people really shouldn't come here to ask advice if it's an eating disorder, that is where a DT and other Doctors come into play.
There are plenty of benefits from additional carbs in which i really don't think you understand, so I will list a few reasons to start with: 1. This is probably the most obvious reason, but carbs (and yes sugars) are a very easy source of calories (I will discuss more in a bit on this). 2. Since carbs spike insulin, this will create an anti-catabolic environment in your body and enables protein synthesis (building new muscle).
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
On top of that, the problem you are having is that you will infer that everyone will develop some kind of "oreo/or whatever food" habit but seem to fail to look at the entire context of the diet. I generally manage to address several nutritional goals/recommendations based on current science and discussions with multiple specialist (my wife has a medical condition so I have to go to GI, Cardiologist, Endochronologist,etc..): 1. 1g of protein per lb of lean body mass (sometimes I hit body weight), 2. I hit over 20g of fiber a day... with many being almost 40g (I do have a quest bar, but I also get 2 or 3 servings of fruit and a few servings a veggies, 3. I also get a good amount of dietary fat (.35 to .4g) per lb of lean body mass. 4. Rest is carbs which is mainly from whole wheat breads, fruits and veggies. Oh and this is all on a cut at ~2400 calories. So let me ask you, how hard do you think it would be for me to improve those numbers with an additional 850 calories during a clean bulk?
On the other side of the equation, there are plenty of other eating disorders based around "clean foods". And yes, I literally know a lady who will not eat anything that isn't "clean". Nor will she allow her kids to eat anything that is not clean. The main purpose of touching on this, is there are many types of ED's. Each case should be addressed with concurrence from a therapist. And in many cases, this may include doing WHATEVER you can to gain weight. The LAST thing you want is to have a person have a troubled past and create more fears by saying this or that food is bad for you.
Other things to note - Adding a lot of fats, unlike carbs, can increase the amount of body fat that is stored. So while carbs may spike insulin and blood sugars, they are not as good at converting to fat... due to de nova lipogenesis. It's why many nutritional experts suggest increasing carbs while bulking. There are no real studies that I have seen that would suggest an increase benefit of eating over 1g per lb or lean body mass (even if you bumped that to your anticipated lean body mass, we are only talking a few grams. Besides eating more protein than the body needs and it will just be converted to glucose.
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
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There are plenty of benefits from additional carbs in which i really don't think you understand, so I will list a few reasons to start with: 1. This is probably the most obvious reason, but carbs (and yes sugars) are a very easy source of calories (I will discuss more in a bit on this). 2. Since carbs spike insulin, this will create an anti-catabolic environment in your body and enables protein synthesis (building new muscle).
There may be benefits of addition good carbs but we were talking about oreos as a diet stable, so this huge text you wrote is out context has nothing to do what was previously written Your body's protein synthesis capacities depend on your natural testosterone levels; your testosterone to cortisol ratio; your insulin sensitivity; your muscle fiber makeup, and your genetics.You can eat any amount of food you want, but you can't change your protein synthesis limit naturally. Eating excess will only lead to a fatter body. A trained individual can store up to 40g of glycogen per 100g of muscle tissue. Like I said in other comments topics, there is no way to know if a person is at that storage rate, and it's really not that much, so most of the time a person is just filling, and carbs are pretty much in everything.
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
I never said anything about a 100% clean diet, just like the other people never said not eating mainly junk foods. What I said was having something that is empty calories everyday in which a person relies on a food that has no real good calories like Oreos, to fill is not good advice! If we think that way we might as well recommend the empty calories from alcohol as well, I mean they are calories and give energy and it's easier to consume.
Nope! It doesn't mean one should use it to reach bulking goals or cutting goals, Also, how are you speaking for the majority of the people on here that are bulking, most of the journals I look at have are the healthy or clean bulks, so I guess that is generalizing.
On the other side of the equation, there are plenty of other eating disorders based around "clean foods". And yes, I literally know a lady who will not eat anything that isn't "clean". Nor will she allow her kids to eat anything that is not clean. The main purpose of touching on this, is there are many types of ED's. Each case should be addressed with concurrence from a therapist. And in many cases, this may include doing WHATEVER you can to gain weight. The LAST thing you want is to have a person have a troubled past and create more fears by saying this or that food is bad for you.
I agree with everything you said here, except you're not a DT and neither am I. I actually wrote that they should see a RDT and DR.
Other things to note - Adding a lot of fats, unlike carbs, can increase the amount of body fat that is stored. So while carbs may spike insulin and blood sugars, they are not as good at converting to fat... due to de nova lipogenesis. It's why many nutritional experts suggest increasing carbs while bulking. There are no real studies that I have seen that would suggest an increase benefit of eating over 1g per lb or lean body mass (even if you bumped that to your anticipated lean body mass, we are only talking a few grams. Besides eating more protein than the body needs and it will just be converted to glucose.
Adding a huge amount anything might make you fat, but sugar has been determined to be the causing factor of people gaining fat, and more rapidly, other than over eating in the first place. Link here, and I've mention this in other threads. Fat doesn't make you fat . Sugar on the hand does, and it doesn't matter if it's a small amount or a big amount, because of the process and reaction in the body. It may not be a lot, but it adds up over time, and once again no one bulks to gain fat. This is why I don't recommend Oreo's, it has no fiber to counter the Insulin process. although a person could add some nutritional food to the Oreos to get both the satisfaction of eating junk with some benefit. Regardless, Link here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/fat-health_b_4343798.html
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
Bulking and Cutting are mentally taxing and if a person needs a desert it's true they should have it. Although they should NOT RECOMMEND that strategy for everyone in a generalized setting, this why I even responded. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for all or is good advice.
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^ This.
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
The importance of desserts and other highly palatable foods in aiding adherence to a surplus really can't be understated. No surplus = no gains, full stop, end of story. There are plenty of days when I can't face eating any more fruits/veggies, or when I've hit my protein target and when more protein isn't a good choice. On those days, highly palatable, low-volume foods like Oreos are the best choice because they allow me to meet my most important goal (calories).
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OP, lots of people in recovery have issues with constipation anyway, and high-protein diets can exacerbate that. Just FYI.Ok. So if you are trying to gain weight you *could* go for the "just eat a bunch of junk food all the time" route, but that is very unhealthy (obviously) and has 0 benefits. Instead, try eating LOTS of protein (and I mean lots)! The protein is sure to bulk you up in no time and if you are a vegetarian/vegan try these high protein foods:
Peanut Butter
Eggs (non-vegan)
Chobain (think that's how it's spelt lol) Greek 100cal yogurt (12g of protein!!! Love this! It's not vegan though...)
Nuts
Beans
Edamame!!!(my favorite! 14g of protein! Only 130cal per serving)
Don't look at calories. Look at PROTEIN!!!!!!!
Some fats can be good for you too! For example: avacado has a generous amount of fat in it but it's GOOD FAT!!! (Bad fats are saturated and trans fats so stay away from those)
******But anything is good on occasion and in moderation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!******
Stay healthy
0 -
There are plenty of benefits from additional carbs in which i really don't think you understand, so I will list a few reasons to start with: 1. This is probably the most obvious reason, but carbs (and yes sugars) are a very easy source of calories (I will discuss more in a bit on this). 2. Since carbs spike insulin, this will create an anti-catabolic environment in your body and enables protein synthesis (building new muscle).
There may be benefits of addition good carbs but we were talking about oreos as a diet stable, so this huge text you wrote is out context has nothing to do what was previously written Your body's protein synthesis capacities depend on your natural testosterone levels; your testosterone to cortisol ratio; your insulin sensitivity; your muscle fiber makeup, and your genetics.You can eat any amount of food you want, but you can't change your protein synthesis limit naturally. Eating excess will only lead to a fatter body. A trained individual can store up to 40g of glycogen per 100g of muscle tissue. Like I said in other comments topics, there is no way to know if a person is at that storage rate, and it's really not that much, so most of the time a person is just filling, and carbs are pretty much in everything.
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
I never said anything about a 100% clean diet, just like the other people never said not eating mainly junk foods. What I said was having something that is empty calories everyday in which a person relies on a food that has no real good calories like Oreos, to fill is not good advice! If we think that way we might as well recommend the empty calories from alcohol as well, I mean they are calories and give energy and it's easier to consume.
Nope! It doesn't mean one should use it to reach bulking goals or cutting goals, Also, how are you speaking for the majority of the people on here that are bulking, most of the journals I look at have are the healthy or clean bulks, so I guess that is generalizing.
On the other side of the equation, there are plenty of other eating disorders based around "clean foods". And yes, I literally know a lady who will not eat anything that isn't "clean". Nor will she allow her kids to eat anything that is not clean. The main purpose of touching on this, is there are many types of ED's. Each case should be addressed with concurrence from a therapist. And in many cases, this may include doing WHATEVER you can to gain weight. The LAST thing you want is to have a person have a troubled past and create more fears by saying this or that food is bad for you.
I agree with everything you said here, except you're not a DT and neither am I. I actually wrote that they should see a RDT and DR.
Other things to note - Adding a lot of fats, unlike carbs, can increase the amount of body fat that is stored. So while carbs may spike insulin and blood sugars, they are not as good at converting to fat... due to de nova lipogenesis. It's why many nutritional experts suggest increasing carbs while bulking. There are no real studies that I have seen that would suggest an increase benefit of eating over 1g per lb or lean body mass (even if you bumped that to your anticipated lean body mass, we are only talking a few grams. Besides eating more protein than the body needs and it will just be converted to glucose.
Adding a huge amount anything might make you fat, but sugar has been determined to be the causing factor of people gaining fat, and more rapidly, other than over eating in the first place. Link here, and I've mention this in other threads. Fat doesn't make you fat . Sugar on the hand does, and it doesn't matter if it's a small amount or a big amount, because of the process and reaction in the body. It may not be a lot, but it adds up over time, and once again no one bulks to gain fat. This is why I don't recommend Oreo's, it has no fiber to counter the Insulin process. although a person could add some nutritional food to the Oreos to get both the satisfaction of eating junk with some benefit. Regardless, Link here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/fat-health_b_4343798.html
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
Bulking and Cutting are mentally taxing and if a person needs a desert it's true they should have it. Although they should NOT RECOMMEND that strategy for everyone in a generalized setting, this why I even responded. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for all or is good advice.
for the record, sugar does not make you fat unless you are in a caloric surplus.
please link us to these journals that advocate for clean eating during a bulk ...0 -
There are plenty of benefits from additional carbs in which i really don't think you understand, so I will list a few reasons to start with: 1. This is probably the most obvious reason, but carbs (and yes sugars) are a very easy source of calories (I will discuss more in a bit on this). 2. Since carbs spike insulin, this will create an anti-catabolic environment in your body and enables protein synthesis (building new muscle).
There may be benefits of addition good carbs but we were talking about oreos as a diet stable, so this huge text you wrote is out context has nothing to do what was previously written Your body's protein synthesis capacities depend on your natural testosterone levels; your testosterone to cortisol ratio; your insulin sensitivity; your muscle fiber makeup, and your genetics.You can eat any amount of food you want, but you can't change your protein synthesis limit naturally. Eating excess will only lead to a fatter body. A trained individual can store up to 40g of glycogen per 100g of muscle tissue. Like I said in other comments topics, there is no way to know if a person is at that storage rate, and it's really not that much, so most of the time a person is just filling, and carbs are pretty much in everything.
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
I never said anything about a 100% clean diet, just like the other people never said not eating mainly junk foods. What I said was having something that is empty calories everyday in which a person relies on a food that has no real good calories like Oreos, to fill is not good advice! If we think that way we might as well recommend the empty calories from alcohol as well, I mean they are calories and give energy and it's easier to consume.
Nope! It doesn't mean one should use it to reach bulking goals or cutting goals, Also, how are you speaking for the majority of the people on here that are bulking, most of the journals I look at have are the healthy or clean bulks, so I guess that is generalizing.
On the other side of the equation, there are plenty of other eating disorders based around "clean foods". And yes, I literally know a lady who will not eat anything that isn't "clean". Nor will she allow her kids to eat anything that is not clean. The main purpose of touching on this, is there are many types of ED's. Each case should be addressed with concurrence from a therapist. And in many cases, this may include doing WHATEVER you can to gain weight. The LAST thing you want is to have a person have a troubled past and create more fears by saying this or that food is bad for you.
I agree with everything you said here, except you're not a DT and neither am I. I actually wrote that they should see a RDT and DR.
Other things to note - Adding a lot of fats, unlike carbs, can increase the amount of body fat that is stored. So while carbs may spike insulin and blood sugars, they are not as good at converting to fat... due to de nova lipogenesis. It's why many nutritional experts suggest increasing carbs while bulking. There are no real studies that I have seen that would suggest an increase benefit of eating over 1g per lb or lean body mass (even if you bumped that to your anticipated lean body mass, we are only talking a few grams. Besides eating more protein than the body needs and it will just be converted to glucose.
Adding a huge amount anything might make you fat, but sugar has been determined to be the causing factor of people gaining fat, and more rapidly, other than over eating in the first place. Link here, and I've mention this in other threads. Fat doesn't make you fat . Sugar on the hand does, and it doesn't matter if it's a small amount or a big amount, because of the process and reaction in the body. It may not be a lot, but it adds up over time, and once again no one bulks to gain fat. This is why I don't recommend Oreo's, it has no fiber to counter the Insulin process. although a person could add some nutritional food to the Oreos to get both the satisfaction of eating junk with some benefit. Regardless, Link here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/fat-health_b_4343798.html
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
Bulking and Cutting are mentally taxing and if a person needs a desert it's true they should have it. Although they should NOT RECOMMEND that strategy for everyone in a generalized setting, this why I even responded. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for all or is good advice.
The only person in this thread making an inference to having oreo's as a staple in a diet is you. @NJD suggested you can add oreos if you need help meeting your calorie goals after you have already address your nutritional requirements. With that said, let me ask you simple questions.
If I am already addressing all of my nutritional goals whiling cutting and need an additional 850 to 1000 calories to bulk, what is the harm of having a daily Klondike bar? I am already hitting my protein goals, my fiber goals, get adequate fats. To put it another way, if I am eating 3000 calories of high quality foods (containing a variety of nutrients to include: vitamins, minerals, omega 3 fatty acids, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats) what harm would a 250 calorie Klondike bar do to my progress and/or health?
What are you going to suggest to someone who struggles to meet their weight goals because they can't get enough calories (especially those eating 4000+ calories)?
Regarding no one is bulking to just gain fat.. well I shouldn't have use the term bulk.. i should have use the term gaining weight. There are plenty of people, even on this board, who have been instructed to do whatever to just gain weight. So yes, there are people who just need to put on fat.
Regarding your article.. ignoring the fact that it's an article from the huffington post (not so credible) and it's by Mark Hyman, who has already demonstrated a clear biased towards low carb diets, no where in that article did it even discuss how sugars makes you fat. Pretty much the only correlation it has is... well if fats aren't causing heart attacks, it must be sugar. Additionally, it states that sugar cause diabetes. The America Diabetes Organization clearly states that is not isn't really true and the closest link to some correlation is sugary drinks. Below is the abstract:diabetes.org wrote:Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories from any source contributes to weight gain. Research has shown that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 diabetes.
I will leave an article for you to look at. It does link to multiple studies that would suggest that dietary fats are more likely to convert to adipose fat compared to carbohydrates but carbs can be an enabler for that function to happen.
http://bodytransformationfitness.com/bulking-macronutrient-ratios-guide/Actually, you gain fat because the excess carbohydrate intake prevents your body from utilizing fat for energy, causing you to store a good portion of your dietary fat as body fat. The conversion of carbohydrates to fat, a process known as de novo lipogenesis, is actually quite rare. In fact, in a study that tried to determine if the rate of de novo lipogenesis differs between normal weight women and obese women, participants were purposefully overfed by 50% of their energy needs, the surplus consisting of 27.3% carbohydrate and 22.7% fat. In spite of carbohydrates forming a large portion of the calorie surplus, Marc Hellerstein, professor at the University of California, Berkeley, writes that the study’s “authors calculated that between 3 and 8 g fat/d [grams per day] was produced through de novo lipogenesis compared with 360–390 g carbohydrate ingested/d,” so only a fraction of the surplus carbohydrates was converted into fat. Hellerstein goes on to explain that the participants did not store fat during the study because the excess carbohydrates were converted into fat; instead, excess carbohydrate intake stopped the participants from using fat as a fuel source0 -
List of what and how these carb sources metabolize in the body:
Sweet potatoes>>>glucose
Oatmeal>>>glucose
Brown rice>>>glucose
White rice>>>glucose
OREOS>>>glucose
Ice cream>>>glucose
Aside from ther nutritional value....adding "junk food" to an already micro-dense diet is perfectly fine. It's called enjoying life. Those who want to eat how they eat, then so be it, but don't preach wrong information such as eating only protein. This discussion is going on way tooooo long. Just address the post(which we've clearly done
) and let it be lol 0 -
There are plenty of benefits from additional carbs in which i really don't think you understand, so I will list a few reasons to start with: 1. This is probably the most obvious reason, but carbs (and yes sugars) are a very easy source of calories (I will discuss more in a bit on this). 2. Since carbs spike insulin, this will create an anti-catabolic environment in your body and enables protein synthesis (building new muscle).
There may be benefits of addition good carbs but we were talking about oreos as a diet stable, so this huge text you wrote is out context has nothing to do what was previously written Your body's protein synthesis capacities depend on your natural testosterone levels; your testosterone to cortisol ratio; your insulin sensitivity; your muscle fiber makeup, and your genetics.You can eat any amount of food you want, but you can't change your protein synthesis limit naturally. Eating excess will only lead to a fatter body. A trained individual can store up to 40g of glycogen per 100g of muscle tissue. Like I said in other comments topics, there is no way to know if a person is at that storage rate, and it's really not that much, so most of the time a person is just filling, and carbs are pretty much in everything.
Getting back to the firs point, in some peoples case, it can be extremely difficult to hit your calories with all "clean"/whole/nutrient dense foods. Every day, people come on this board and ask for help on how to eat more calories. Every day, we generally start that conversation with adding in nutrient dense foods, but also suggest not being afraid of some ice cream or other treats (again, context is you can use them if you need but you need to address the rest of your goals first). This is especially true when people are eating over 3000 calories. There are many men on here who bulk at 4000 to 5000 calories. So ask yourself, how easy it will be to get that level of calories with things like chicken, nuts, oils, veggies, etc.. Personally, I would struggle to do that on a clean diet and I eat like I have a tape worm.
I never said anything about a 100% clean diet, just like the other people never said not eating mainly junk foods. What I said was having something that is empty calories everyday in which a person relies on a food that has no real good calories like Oreos, to fill is not good advice! If we think that way we might as well recommend the empty calories from alcohol as well, I mean they are calories and give energy and it's easier to consume.
Nope! It doesn't mean one should use it to reach bulking goals or cutting goals, Also, how are you speaking for the majority of the people on here that are bulking, most of the journals I look at have are the healthy or clean bulks, so I guess that is generalizing.
On the other side of the equation, there are plenty of other eating disorders based around "clean foods". And yes, I literally know a lady who will not eat anything that isn't "clean". Nor will she allow her kids to eat anything that is not clean. The main purpose of touching on this, is there are many types of ED's. Each case should be addressed with concurrence from a therapist. And in many cases, this may include doing WHATEVER you can to gain weight. The LAST thing you want is to have a person have a troubled past and create more fears by saying this or that food is bad for you.
I agree with everything you said here, except you're not a DT and neither am I. I actually wrote that they should see a RDT and DR.
Other things to note - Adding a lot of fats, unlike carbs, can increase the amount of body fat that is stored. So while carbs may spike insulin and blood sugars, they are not as good at converting to fat... due to de nova lipogenesis. It's why many nutritional experts suggest increasing carbs while bulking. There are no real studies that I have seen that would suggest an increase benefit of eating over 1g per lb or lean body mass (even if you bumped that to your anticipated lean body mass, we are only talking a few grams. Besides eating more protein than the body needs and it will just be converted to glucose.
Adding a huge amount anything might make you fat, but sugar has been determined to be the causing factor of people gaining fat, and more rapidly, other than over eating in the first place. Link here, and I've mention this in other threads. Fat doesn't make you fat . Sugar on the hand does, and it doesn't matter if it's a small amount or a big amount, because of the process and reaction in the body. It may not be a lot, but it adds up over time, and once again no one bulks to gain fat. This is why I don't recommend Oreo's, it has no fiber to counter the Insulin process. although a person could add some nutritional food to the Oreos to get both the satisfaction of eating junk with some benefit. Regardless, Link here http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/fat-health_b_4343798.html
So while I don't dispute that one should get a lot of foods from whole sources (fruits, veggies, fish, meats, whole grains, dairy), it is short sighted to believe that all of your calories should come there. This game, especially bulking, can be taxing mentally. So if adding a desert each night, not only helps you achieve your surplus but also provides some sanity, then I say go for it. And besides, and this is the biggest key to weight gain, if you do NOT eat enough calories, you will NOT meet your goals, not matter which diet you follow. So just like with weight loss, you need to find a strategy to address your goals.. not someone else.
Bulking and Cutting are mentally taxing and if a person needs a desert it's true they should have it. Although they should NOT RECOMMEND that strategy for everyone in a generalized setting, this why I even responded. Just because it works for you doesn't mean it works for all or is good advice.
The only person in this thread making an inference to having oreo's as a staple in a diet is you. @NJD suggested you can add oreos if you need help meeting your calorie goals after you have already address your nutritional requirements. With that said, let me ask you simple questions.
If I am already addressing all of my nutritional goals whiling cutting and need an additional 850 to 1000 calories to bulk, what is the harm of having a daily Klondike bar? I am already hitting my protein goals, my fiber goals, get adequate fats. To put it another way, if I am eating 3000 calories of high quality foods (containing a variety of nutrients to include: vitamins, minerals, omega 3 fatty acids, polyunsaturated and monounsaturated fats) what harm would a 250 calorie Klondike bar do to my progress and/or health?
What are you going to suggest to someone who struggles to meet their weight goals because they can't get enough calories (especially those eating 4000+ calories)?
Regarding no one is bulking to just gain fat.. well I shouldn't have use the term bulk.. i should have use the term gaining weight. There are plenty of people, even on this board, who have been instructed to do whatever to just gain weight. So yes, there are people who just need to put on fat.
Regarding your article.. ignoring the fact that it's an article from the huffington post (not so credible) and it's by Mark Hyman, who has already demonstrated a clear biased towards low carb diets, no where in that article did it even discuss how sugars makes you fat. Pretty much the only correlation it has is... well if fats aren't causing heart attacks, it must be sugar. Additionally, it states that sugar cause diabetes. The America Diabetes Organization clearly states that is not isn't really true and the closest link to some correlation is sugary drinks. Below is the abstract:diabetes.org wrote:Being overweight does increase your risk for developing type 2 diabetes, and a diet high in calories from any source contributes to weight gain. Research has shown that drinking sugary drinks is linked to type 2 diabetes.
I will leave an article for you to look at. It does link to multiple studies that would suggest that dietary fats are more likely to convert to adipose fat compared to carbohydrates but carbs can be an enabler for that function to happen.
http://bodytransformationfitness.com/bulking-macronutrient-ratios-guide/Actually, you gain fat because the excess carbohydrate intake prevents your body from utilizing fat for energy, causing you to store a good portion of your dietary fat as body fat. The conversion of carbohydrates to fat, a process known as de novo lipogenesis, is actually quite rare. In fact, in a study that tried to determine if the rate of de novo lipogenesis differs between normal weight women and obese women, participants were purposefully overfed by 50% of their energy needs, the surplus consisting of 27.3% carbohydrate and 22.7% fat. In spite of carbohydrates forming a large portion of the calorie surplus, Marc Hellerstein, professor at the University of California, Berkeley, writes that the study’s “authors calculated that between 3 and 8 g fat/d [grams per day] was produced through de novo lipogenesis compared with 360–390 g carbohydrate ingested/d,” so only a fraction of the surplus carbohydrates was converted into fat. Hellerstein goes on to explain that the participants did not store fat during the study because the excess carbohydrates were converted into fat; instead, excess carbohydrate intake stopped the participants from using fat as a fuel source
cosign0 -
pinggolfer96 wrote: »List of what and how these carb sources metabolize in the body:
Sweet potatoes>>>glucose
Oatmeal>>>glucose
Brown rice>>>glucose
White rice>>>glucose
OREOS>>>glucose
Ice cream>>>glucose
Aside from ther nutritional value....adding "junk food" to an already micro-dense diet is perfectly fine. It's called enjoying life. Those who want to eat how they eat, then so be it, but don't preach wrong information such as eating only protein. This discussion is going on way tooooo long. Just address the post(which we've clearly done ) and let it be lol
agree and cosign0
This discussion has been closed.
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