Bulgarian Method/HIHF training
ovidnine
Posts: 314 Member
Not TRUE Bulgarian style as I'm not a pro, I have a job, and I'm not on anything, but specifically Greg Nuckols/Omar Isuf's adaptation in their "The Bulgarian Manual."
Anyone have much experience with trying this? I believe Squat Every Day works on a similar principle. I'm not going full bore in it for all my lifting, just working in a block for my bench.
Me and bench pressing have issues. I don't like it and it doesn't like me. In order to try and bust through some obstacles, physical & mental, I'm gonna be adapting my program a bit and hitting the bench 4x a week while doing the rest of my regular program.
Every day includes normal warm-up and the way I'm introducing it goes like this:
Week 1: 4x5 @ 60%
Week 2: 3x4 @ 70%
Week 3: 2x2 @ 80%
Week 4: Daily max
Daily max isn't at true max, its what I work up to that day that I can hit without grinding it out and with perfect form.
I'll also mentally set a daily min each day that is the weight I KNOW even if I feel like crap, even if I'm tired, I can get that weight with perfect form.
Any input from those having done programs like this would be great.
Anyone have much experience with trying this? I believe Squat Every Day works on a similar principle. I'm not going full bore in it for all my lifting, just working in a block for my bench.
Me and bench pressing have issues. I don't like it and it doesn't like me. In order to try and bust through some obstacles, physical & mental, I'm gonna be adapting my program a bit and hitting the bench 4x a week while doing the rest of my regular program.
Every day includes normal warm-up and the way I'm introducing it goes like this:
Week 1: 4x5 @ 60%
Week 2: 3x4 @ 70%
Week 3: 2x2 @ 80%
Week 4: Daily max
Daily max isn't at true max, its what I work up to that day that I can hit without grinding it out and with perfect form.
I'll also mentally set a daily min each day that is the weight I KNOW even if I feel like crap, even if I'm tired, I can get that weight with perfect form.
Any input from those having done programs like this would be great.
0
Replies
-
I've never tried Bulgarian or Shieko for the purpose of bringing up a lift. I friend of mine worked with the Bulgarian method years ago and I know a few others that have done Shieko (@JoRocka) and had success with it. What does your training method look like now?0
-
Currently doing Greg Nuckols "The Journey" On my main lifts, the progression I'm working is this:
Warm up sets not included but obviously done.
Week 1: 4x2 of working weight (roughly 85-90% of max)
W 2: 6x2
W 3: 8x2
W 4: 4x3
W 5: 6x3
W 6: 8x3
Then deload week and up weight. Going great for my DL, squat & OHP. Bench its completely hit or miss. For example, on week 2, I had to drop weight for final 2 sets. Week 3, I blasted through all 8 sets no problem. Its week 4, could barely do 2 reps, dropped weight down, still struggled getting sets of it.
My bench is by far the most susceptible to not quite enough sleep, or its Tuesday (bench day) or whatever.
I don't expect this program to magically fix it, but I think having something where it makes me face it every lifting day, getting more overall volume in, and still focusing on getting good reps for the working weight could help.0 -
Currently doing Greg Nuckols "The Journey" On my main lifts, the progression I'm working is this:
Warm up sets not included but obviously done.
Week 1: 4x2 of working weight (roughly 85-90% of max)
W 2: 6x2
W 3: 8x2
W 4: 4x3
W 5: 6x3
W 6: 8x3
Then deload week and up weight. Going great for my DL, squat & OHP. Bench its completely hit or miss. For example, on week 2, I had to drop weight for final 2 sets. Week 3, I blasted through all 8 sets no problem. Its week 4, could barely do 2 reps, dropped weight down, still struggled getting sets of it.
My bench is by far the most susceptible to not quite enough sleep, or its Tuesday (bench day) or whatever.
I don't expect this program to magically fix it, but I think having something where it makes me face it every lifting day, getting more overall volume in, and still focusing on getting good reps for the working weight could help.
I actually use something similar and I use a training max / "working weight". I train 3x/week full-body style.
W1: 5x5 @75% of TM
W2: 5x4 @80%
W3: 5x3 @85%
W4: 5x2 @90%
W5: 5x1 @95%
W6: Work-up to TM, go for PR depending on how the session is going
<deload> then increase TM 5 / 10 respectively
How long have you been training like that? How long has your BP been an issue? I've found that lifts are up and down and rarely are they all at their best at the same time. How many days do you train and how do you split out your lifts? How much accessory do you use?0 -
I've been using this program for almost 4 months. I lift to help me not be fat, to get stronger, and to look better.
Simple breakdown each day you do either Squat/DL/BP/OHP. Then you do an auxiliary lift so say, Squat day you do Romanian Dead lifts, BP day, you do arnold press, DL day, front squats, OHP day, db press/close grip bench.
Then there is various accessory work each day focusing on hypertrophy. plenty of pullups, pull downs, rows, stuff for delts, various other leg exercises, etc. Writing it out, it seems "complex" but its really pretty straightforward and 60-75 minutes gets me taken care of and I've been steadily progressing everywhere but bench and seen more changes in my general body composition than I had in the previous year.
My bench has always been an issue since I started lifting again. Its the one I get stuck on the most progression wise. Currently 2nd time through with this weight (180lbs), and while I'm doing better, its still kicking my butt way more than I want.
I always do my main lift first after warming up and typically mix it with my auxiliary lift for the day.0 -
What accessory lifts do you use specific to supporting your BP? The program sounds straight-forward, just a 4-day split with a focused lift and accompanying accessory work?0
-
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »What accessory lifts do you use specific to supporting your BP? The program sounds straight-forward, just a 4-day split with a focused lift and accompanying accessory work?
Yup, its pretty straightforward. Its part of a larger overall progression. Each day you have an "auxiliary" lift which is supporting your other main lift for upper or lower body. Mine is currently close grip bench.
The accessories as well right now are flyes, and cable crossovers. Those are my two accessories focused most on chest. I've also done DB presses, incline DB presses, and some other things at different points. I typically switch up the accessories every 3-6 weeks.0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »What accessory lifts do you use specific to supporting your BP? The program sounds straight-forward, just a 4-day split with a focused lift and accompanying accessory work?
Yup, its pretty straightforward. Its part of a larger overall progression. Each day you have an "auxiliary" lift which is supporting your other main lift for upper or lower body. Mine is currently close grip bench.
The accessories as well right now are flyes, and cable crossovers. Those are my two accessories focused most on chest. I've also done DB presses, incline DB presses, and some other things at different points. I typically switch up the accessories every 3-6 weeks.
Where are you getting stuck in the BP?0 -
Just varies massively week to week on how many sets I can do. Some weeks its not a problem to do them all. Others, like this time, even one set was not happening.
Gonna attack it this way for a couple of months and see if I feel like I'm progressing. Started today on it 4x5 @ 60%. Figure I'll start 4 days a week on it next week and see how it goes.0 -
In for the discussion. I currently bench 4/week as part of my regular program (peaking for a meet in 1 week).0
-
I bench four times per week. Generally, 1 day is strength themed where the %rm will range from 85-95 on average. 2 days are power themed where the %rm will range between around 70-80% on average (high for traditional speed work, by design), 1 day is hypertrophy which tends to range between 70-80% on average but at higher volumes.
Over a three week period the intensity goes up and volume goes down. Week 4 is a deload week. Then it repeats with an intensity increase and volume decrease. Two weeks out, I taper.
I also squat 3/week and deadlift 2/week, and a mix of accessories. 4/week training days so basically I bench daily.0 -
Wow, that's an impressive program! Did it take you very long to adjust to the additional volume?0
-
It's really not that much volume, feels like I need a bit more. I've been squatting 3/week and benching 3/week for quite a while before this program, so all I really did was add another bench day, but squat volume per session went down.0 -
I saw very good gains on a DUP program Squatting & Benching 3-4x per week, with Deads at 1-2x per week. Need to stay on top of recovery and pay attention for when it's time to ease off the gas a bit.
I also ran Bulgarian (Omar & Nuckols version) for a few weeks, but didn't particularly like it. However, I was in a deficit while attempting to do so, so that is more than likely why.
Anywho, I find a real benefit to higher frequency programs... anytime I'm hitting something less than 2x per week minimum the lift itself just feels like utter garbage.0 -
LolBroScience wrote: »I saw very good gains on a DUP program Squatting & Benching 3-4x per week, with Deads at 1-2x per week. Need to stay on top of recovery and pay attention for when it's time to ease off the gas a bit.
I also ran Bulgarian (Omar & Nuckols version) for a few weeks, but didn't particularly like it. However, I was in a deficit while attempting to do so, so that is more than likely why.
Anywho, I find a real benefit to higher frequency programs... anytime I'm hitting something less than 2x per week minimum the lift itself just feels like utter garbage.
Same. I'm a huge believer in high frequency. Not necessarily both high frequency AND high intensity but if you undulate intensity/volume appropriately you can certainly squat/bench 3+ times/week each and pull 1-2 times too.
And doing things more often develops skill and keeps it sharp.0 -
I'm taking a slow and steady approach to my lifting. I'm in my mid 30s and only a couple years in and while I want GAINZ even more important is minimizing risk of injury. I've gotten pretty decent at listening to my body (usually) so I'll try to focus on recovery for sure.
I can imagine it would be difficult to do running a deficit. I'm currently running a slight deficit (maybe 1500-2000 calories/week) but not being super strict about it. If it seems I need to forego that for a bit, well, eating more is never a problem for me. lol
I don't think it'll be a big issue though as I'm only adding the bench as a block instead of attempting a full program in this manner.
Really glad to hear from some of you guy's who run or have something at least similar.0 -
I'm taking a slow and steady approach to my lifting. I'm in my mid 30s and only a couple years in and while I want GAINZ even more important is minimizing risk of injury. I've gotten pretty decent at listening to my body (usually) so I'll try to focus on recovery for sure.
I can imagine it would be difficult to do running a deficit. I'm currently running a slight deficit (maybe 1500-2000 calories/week) but not being super strict about it. If it seems I need to forego that for a bit, well, eating more is never a problem for me. lol
I don't think it'll be a big issue though as I'm only adding the bench as a block instead of attempting a full program in this manner.
Really glad to hear from some of you guy's who run or have something at least similar.
I run the same program in a deficit as I do in a surplus. Just for what it's worth.
You can absolutely train high frequency in a deficit. But you may need to manipulate volume/intensity to accommodate recovery.0 -
I run the same program in a deficit as I do in a surplus. Just for what it's worth.
You can absolutely train high frequency in a deficit. But you may need to manipulate volume/intensity to accommodate recovery.
Thanks a ton guys. You all are giving me some nice tips on what to mentally prepare for especially.0 -
Day 3 and feeling good. Obviously I'm only at 60% of my 1RM, but its still been a lot of reps. I might do 5 days this week and next while the weight still isn't all that much and then for week 3 on go 4 days and see how it feels.
0 -
Week 1 finished and while my chest is wondering WTF I'm doing a little bit, barely sore at all and it wasn't interfering with my other lifting or anything else.
Week 1 totals: 5 days of 4x5 @ 60% 1RM (125lbs.... LOL ) 1 day of close grip bench as that was my auxiliary lift for the day.
Monday starts at least 5 days of 3x4 @ 70%.
It turns out I'm going to start the daily min/maxes the week everything else will be in deload so that actually works out pretty good.
Its still very early, but I'm excited to see how this goes. lol0 -
Resurrecting this for anyone who might care to see how it goes for me.
After skipping last week, er I mean, taking a rest week, finally got to the meat of the program. Since I'm going on vacation in 6 weeks I've decided I'm going to start doing this for my squats too. We'll see how it goes.
Day 1: warmed up, worked up to 165x5, things felt good, did 175x3 and called it a day. Did something to my elbow when I was roofing my garage a couple weeks back and I definitely don't want to overdo it. We'll what tomorrow brings.0 -
I'm taking a slow and steady approach to my lifting. I'm in my mid 30s and only a couple years in and while I want GAINZ even more important is minimizing risk of injury. I've gotten pretty decent at listening to my body (usually) so I'll try to focus on recovery for sure.
I can imagine it would be difficult to do running a deficit. I'm currently running a slight deficit (maybe 1500-2000 calories/week) but not being super strict about it. If it seems I need to forego that for a bit, well, eating more is never a problem for me. lol
I don't think it'll be a big issue though as I'm only adding the bench as a block instead of attempting a full program in this manner.
Really glad to hear from some of you guy's who run or have something at least similar.
Just offering a opinion/observation based on the statement of "only a couple of years in", but if you've been doing the competition lift for a long time and it's been somewhat stagnant, have you looked into running a few meso-cycles with a bench variant?
Maybe doing wide grip bench for a few weeks if more focus on chest is needed, or close grip bench if more tricep focus is needed, or inclines if upper chest is weak, etc... This allows you to up frequency and recovery since you are having to deal with less weight comparatively from the main competition lift and helps with strengthening weaker musculature since you are able to "focus" the lift towards those muscles that might be problematic for you.
0 -
Just offering a opinion/observation based on the statement of "only a couple of years in", but if you've been doing the competition lift for a long time and it's been somewhat stagnant, have you looked into running a few meso-cycles with a bench variant?
Maybe doing wide grip bench for a few weeks if more focus on chest is needed, or close grip bench if more tricep focus is needed, or inclines if upper chest is weak, etc... This allows you to up frequency and recovery since you are having to deal with less weight comparatively from the main competition lift and helps with strengthening weaker musculature since you are able to "focus" the lift towards those muscles that might be problematic for you.
Thanks for the input! Some of this is strength related, but a lot of it is mental when it comes to my bench. The purpose of doing this is to force myself to hit it daily for a few weeks to change my mindset about it. Instead of dreading bench day, every day is bench day, so its either suck it up and go for it or dread going to the gym. I still love going to the gym so its working so far.
When I get back to working my regular program I'm going to make sure I switch in more dumbbell work for my chest for sure. My regular program I do regular "wide grip" (though my grip isn't very wide) once a week and a bench variant once a week. I'd been doing close grip for a good while mostly because I liked how it was helping my triceps get bigger. But in doing that I was neglecting spending any time with dumbbells, either incline or flat because I don't like them as much. lol
I agree they will help with the physical side once I'm through beating the mental blocks out of myself.
As to how today went, missed out on about 45 minutes sleep last night but still felt pretty good.
Started with squatting, 3x4 @ 70% to ease myself into it.
Worked up to a couple of singles at 185, second was slower than the first by a noticeable margin so called it a day after that.
0 -
Yeah I wouldn't mind following your progress as I have limited familiarity with the Bulgarian method. If you would included the training variables with your posts (sets/reps/intensity) and anything else you feel relevant to the programming that would be great. Thanks!!0
-
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Yeah I wouldn't mind following your progress as I have limited familiarity with the Bulgarian method. If you would included the training variables with your posts (sets/reps/intensity) and anything else you feel relevant to the programming that would be great. Thanks!!
I can do that. I'll start with this week as its my first full week after the ramp up period for bench and I just decided to start it with squats this week too.
Current mental daily min on bench is 165x3. I know I can nail that no matter what. This week seems to be going well so I think my mental daily min is going to be going up a little bit going forward.
Monday 12/28- Felt good. Well rested.
Squat- Worked up to a 275 squat, new PR for me. Tried 285, wasn't happening. Still satisfied.
Bench:
45x20 (to warm the muscles up some more)
115x12 (warm up with light load)
135x10
155x7
165x3
175x3
185x3
accessory-pullups, seated wide grip rows, inclide DB press, & ab work
Tuesday 12/29- Shorted myself an hour of sleep, still felt decent
Squat:
135x10
155x10
185x6
3-195x4
Bench:
Warmups (I warm up the same daily, not gonna repeat it every time
135x10
155x6
165x3
175x2
185x1
accessory-dips, pullups, standing lat pulldowns, ab work
Wednesday 12/30 Felt good, slept great, bit sore, but not bad.
Squat: Replaced squatting with testing my DL max. Got to 355. Broke the ground with 375 but bailed. Got 365 almost to knees and bailed. Possibly this wasn't the wisest time to try it but hell, still 20lbs more than I'd ever done so it works.
Bench:
Warmups
135x10
155x7
165x5
175x3
2-185x1
185x2
Accessory- pendlay rows, ab work
Thursday 12/31 Felt good, decent sleep, a bit sore, but worked it out warming up
Squat:
135x10
155x10
175x7
185x5
3-195x4
Bench: Bit tired here today. Bar got slower on 2nd 175 so I just kept things there.
135x10
155x7
165x4
3-175x2
accessory- face pulls, db shoulder press, ab work
So far so good. I know in my OP I said I was only going to be using the bench as a block for now, but I'm actually going to this program full time for the next 6 weeks until I go on vacation.
This program is forcing me to not slack on my mobility work to not be stiff and sore. Could I do more? Sure! And I'm going to try and keep incorporating more, but its a start and its good for me.0 -
This content has been removed.
-
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Yeah I wouldn't mind following your progress as I have limited familiarity with the Bulgarian method. If you would included the training variables with your posts (sets/reps/intensity) and anything else you feel relevant to the programming that would be great. Thanks!!
I can do that. I'll start with this week as its my first full week after the ramp up period for bench and I just decided to start it with squats this week too.
Current mental daily min on bench is 165x3. I know I can nail that no matter what. This week seems to be going well so I think my mental daily min is going to be going up a little bit going forward.
Monday 12/28- Felt good. Well rested.
Squat- Worked up to a 275 squat, new PR for me. Tried 285, wasn't happening. Still satisfied.
Bench:
45x20 (to warm the muscles up some more)
115x12 (warm up with light load)
135x10
155x7
165x3
175x3
185x3
accessory-pullups, seated wide grip rows, inclide DB press, & ab work
Tuesday 12/29- Shorted myself an hour of sleep, still felt decent
Squat:
135x10
155x10
185x6
3-195x4
Bench:
Warmups (I warm up the same daily, not gonna repeat it every time
135x10
155x6
165x3
175x2
185x1
accessory-dips, pullups, standing lat pulldowns, ab work
Wednesday 12/30 Felt good, slept great, bit sore, but not bad.
Squat: Replaced squatting with testing my DL max. Got to 355. Broke the ground with 375 but bailed. Got 365 almost to knees and bailed. Possibly this wasn't the wisest time to try it but hell, still 20lbs more than I'd ever done so it works.
Bench:
Warmups
135x10
155x7
165x5
175x3
2-185x1
185x2
Accessory- pendlay rows, ab work
Thursday 12/31 Felt good, decent sleep, a bit sore, but worked it out warming up
Squat:
135x10
155x10
175x7
185x5
3-195x4
Bench: Bit tired here today. Bar got slower on 2nd 175 so I just kept things there.
135x10
155x7
165x4
3-175x2
accessory- face pulls, db shoulder press, ab work
So far so good. I know in my OP I said I was only going to be using the bench as a block for now, but I'm actually going to this program full time for the next 6 weeks until I go on vacation.
This program is forcing me to not slack on my mobility work to not be stiff and sore. Could I do more? Sure! And I'm going to try and keep incorporating more, but its a start and its good for me.
I will say I am not familiar with the Bulgarian method, but based on how I am reading this with your stats (correct me if I'm wrong)...
Monday - squat heavy, bench heavy
Tuesday - squat light, bench heavy
Wednesday - deadlift heavy, bench heavy
Thursday - squat light, bench heavy
Do you see the problem? When are you letting yourself recover some from benching heavy for the next workout except for Fr-Sun? You are giving yourself maybe just the once to recover per week to adapt to maybe make some gains for Monday's session, but then no chance until the following Monday. Why not incorporate some medium and light work days to help mitigate fatigue better? This allows you to still maintain frequency if needed (4 days might be a little too much for bench anyway, but that's another possible discussion).
0 -
Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »Yeah I wouldn't mind following your progress as I have limited familiarity with the Bulgarian method. If you would included the training variables with your posts (sets/reps/intensity) and anything else you feel relevant to the programming that would be great. Thanks!!
I can do that. I'll start with this week as its my first full week after the ramp up period for bench and I just decided to start it with squats this week too.
Current mental daily min on bench is 165x3. I know I can nail that no matter what. This week seems to be going well so I think my mental daily min is going to be going up a little bit going forward.
Monday 12/28- Felt good. Well rested.
Squat- Worked up to a 275 squat, new PR for me. Tried 285, wasn't happening. Still satisfied.
Bench:
45x20 (to warm the muscles up some more)
115x12 (warm up with light load)
135x10
155x7
165x3
175x3
185x3
accessory-pullups, seated wide grip rows, inclide DB press, & ab work
Tuesday 12/29- Shorted myself an hour of sleep, still felt decent
Squat:
135x10
155x10
185x6
3-195x4
Bench:
Warmups (I warm up the same daily, not gonna repeat it every time
135x10
155x6
165x3
175x2
185x1
accessory-dips, pullups, standing lat pulldowns, ab work
Wednesday 12/30 Felt good, slept great, bit sore, but not bad.
Squat: Replaced squatting with testing my DL max. Got to 355. Broke the ground with 375 but bailed. Got 365 almost to knees and bailed. Possibly this wasn't the wisest time to try it but hell, still 20lbs more than I'd ever done so it works.
Bench:
Warmups
135x10
155x7
165x5
175x3
2-185x1
185x2
Accessory- pendlay rows, ab work
Thursday 12/31 Felt good, decent sleep, a bit sore, but worked it out warming up
Squat:
135x10
155x10
175x7
185x5
3-195x4
Bench: Bit tired here today. Bar got slower on 2nd 175 so I just kept things there.
135x10
155x7
165x4
3-175x2
accessory- face pulls, db shoulder press, ab work
So far so good. I know in my OP I said I was only going to be using the bench as a block for now, but I'm actually going to this program full time for the next 6 weeks until I go on vacation.
This program is forcing me to not slack on my mobility work to not be stiff and sore. Could I do more? Sure! And I'm going to try and keep incorporating more, but its a start and its good for me.
I will say I am not familiar with the Bulgarian method, but based on how I am reading this with your stats (correct me if I'm wrong)...
Monday - squat heavy, bench heavy
Tuesday - squat light, bench heavy
Wednesday - deadlift heavy, bench heavy
Thursday - squat light, bench heavy
Do you see the problem? When are you letting yourself recover some from benching heavy for the next workout except for Fr-Sun? You are giving yourself maybe just the once to recover per week to adapt to maybe make some gains for Monday's session, but then no chance until the following Monday. Why not incorporate some medium and light work days to help mitigate fatigue better? This allows you to still maintain frequency if needed (4 days might be a little too much for bench anyway, but that's another possible discussion).
I've got to say I agree with this. I am a bencher. It's what I do. I bench anywhere between 3-5 days a week.
But, with the exception of when I'm peaking up for a competition, I only bench heavy maybe once or twice a week. My peaking for Nationals that I start on Monday is so intense bench wise that we are actually dropping my squat and dead down to 40% so that my nervous system can cope with the load.
You may feel physically fine, and be able to cope at least short term. But you are placing quite the load on your nervous system.
0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 426 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions