I want it all. Strength, speed, agility, endurance...

rileyes

I want it all. Strength, speed, agility, endurance...

So I'm thinking this:

Tues/Thurs/Sat
Compound Lifting Program (StrongLifts 5x5+ Hip Thrusts)
(w/alternating days of Push-ups and Dips)

Wed/Fri/Sat
Run Long/Easy (Wed)
Run Bleachers (Fri)
Run Sand (Sat)

4 Days (Tues-Fri) of 30-40 minutes of bodyweight circuits and plyometrics to maintain conditioning and interest.

3 Days (Sat-Mon) of Tennis (one hour)

I was successful with building endurance, speed and agility with this plan sans the barbell training in the past. I am wondering if I need full rest days to get strength results. What is the likelihood that the bodyweight circuits will interfere with my strength gain goal?

I would increase resistance in the bodyweight circuits after considerable strength gains from the compound barbell lifts.

Sun and Mon are essentially my rest days (with tennis).

I eat at maintenance.

kbmnurse

Get going.

DYELB

rileyes wrote: »

I want it all.

And I want a bentley

rileyes

DYELB wrote: »

rileyes wrote: »

I want it all.

And I want a bentley

Tesla is better.

Anyway...

I'm looking for a sustainable plan for gaining strength. And I am wondering how much rest is needed in order to build strength.

I am wondering if anyone else has a similar schedule and could post their results.

MostlyWater

I also want it all, but I take classes 6 days a week.

rileyes

MostlyWater wrote: »

I also want it all, but I take classes 6 days a week.

I am assuming you are taking various fitness classes. Do any involve (BB) strength training? If so, have you seen long term strength gains even though you are physically active most days?

FitGirl0123

You would typically get better results by focusing on things individually rather than all once. Inadequate rest also leads to injuries. Your body knows when it needs rest, so take it.

rileyes

FitGirl0123 wrote: »

You would typically get better results by focusing on things individually rather than all once. Inadequate rest also leads to injuries. Your body knows when it needs rest, so take it.

My focus would be strength training 3 days with maintenance circuits on 5 days. The compound lifts are my main focus ATM. The circuit training is to maintain any speed and agility. And the combined is for my tennis game as well as overall health.

Would cutting the circuits on or following strength training days be beneficial for gaining strength?

Sam_I_Am77

rileyes wrote: »

I want it all. Strength, speed, agility, endurance...

So I'm thinking this:

Tues/Thurs/Sat
Compound Lifting Program (StrongLifts 5x5+ Hip Thrusts)
(w/alternating days of Push-ups and Dips)

Wed/Fri/Sat
Run Long/Easy (Wed)
Run Bleachers (Fri)
Run Sand (Sat)

4 Days (Tues-Fri) of 30-40 minutes of bodyweight circuits and plyometrics to maintain conditioning and interest.

3 Days (Sat-Mon) of Tennis (one hour)

I was successful with building endurance, speed and agility with this plan sans the barbell training in the past. I am wondering if I need full rest days to get strength results. What is the likelihood that the bodyweight circuits will interfere with my strength gain goal?

I would increase resistance in the bodyweight circuits after considerable strength gains from the compound barbell lifts.

Sun and Mon are essentially my rest days (with tennis).

I eat at maintenance.

Are you training for a sport? If you're looking to build speed, which is also an expression of power, and agility I think some adjustments to your training can be made. How exactly are you running your plyometrics (sets, reps, length of time, etc.)?

rileyes

[quote="Sam_I_Am77 Are you training for a sport? If you're looking to build speed, which is also an expression of power, and agility I think some adjustments to your training can be made. How exactly are you running your plyometrics (sets, reps, length of time, etc.)?[/quote]

I play recreational tennis and want to start competing. So I need to get stronger-faster.

Plyometrics circuit: 4x10+ of Box Jumps, Burpees, Skaters, Lateral Jumps, Single Leg Lateral Jumps, High Knees, Medicine Ball Jump-Squat-Toss
Also when I run the bleachers I add 10 box jumps and 4 very short sprints.

I am not trying to beat my time at the moment. I am just maintaining the conditioning. I keep a good challenging pace but time is not my focus lately as I am trying to like strength training.

I read everywhere that compound barbell lifts are the foundation for fitness. So I'm trying to create a program that fits in with that training.

Sam_I_Am77

rileyes wrote: »

[quote="Sam_I_Am77 Are you training for a sport? If you're looking to build speed, which is also an expression of power, and agility I think some adjustments to your training can be made. How exactly are you running your plyometrics (sets, reps, length of time, etc.)?

I play recreational tennis and want to start competing. So I need to get stronger-faster.

Plyometrics circuit: 4x10+ of Box Jumps, Burpees, Skaters, Lateral Jumps, Single Leg Lateral Jumps, High Knees, Medicine Ball Jump-Squat-Toss
Also when I run the bleachers I add 10 box jumps and 4 very short sprints.

I am not trying to beat my time at the moment. I am just maintaining the conditioning. I keep a good challenging pace but time is not my focus lately as I am trying to like strength training.

I read everywhere that compound barbell lifts are the foundation for fitness. So I'm trying to create a program that fits in with that training.

Some SAQ drills that might be helpful, hopefully there's videos on YouTube; I wish I could share what I have.
- Line Stop Deceleration Sprints
- Box Drill
- T-Drill

Your application of Plyometrics seems to be more for training aerobic conditioning than developing power (speed). When you're training for power the Plyometrics sets are about as methodical as you would train the Squat for example. If you were going to do a Tuck-Jump, for example, then you would setup, jump, land, get yourself back into an athletic position and repeat. These should not be done in a BootCamp/CrossFit style where you just jump-up / hop down as fast as you can, training for Power requires a different method of training. You can do something like 1 to 3 Plyometric exercises (super-set if you want) before you lift for 1 to 3 sets of 8-10 good reps or you can do them after sets of a main lift. For instance, you can do a set of squats, then do a set of 8 Broad Jumps. Suggested jumps,

- Tuck Jump
- Depth Jump into a Broad Jump
- Squat Jumps

Use of Throws. If you have room to throw a medicine ball you can do various throws similar to the programming mentioned above to help develop power as well. The Medicine Ball Oblique Throw would be an excellent exercise for you as a Tennis player.

The use of Olympic Lift at lighter intensities can also be used. For instance, you can do a set of Squats and then do a set of Power Cleans (floor or from the hang) at 30% to 40% max for 8-10 reps.

I read everywhere that compound barbell lifts are the foundation for fitness. So I'm trying to create a program that fits in with that training.

There is definite truth to that, however; when training for sports there are some caveats. Athletes must be able to express strength and power, while maintaining their athleticism. If an athlete is really strong but have bad proprioception and stumble all over the field they're no good either. I would say use compounds lifts for your base, but include some unilateral work to help improve your strength in the compound lift and for improved function. Things like Step-Ups and Lunges in the frontal plane are excellent exercises because they're not done like a Squat or Deadlift (up-and-down) and require some different movement mechanics. Please note I'm not saying don't Squat / Deadlift, nor am I saying Step-Ups / Lunges are better than Squatting; just different and serve a different purpose.

Frequency: Off-season athletes, strength train 3 to 4 days tops, do SAQ drills 1 to 2 times per week. Definitely take a day or two off as you want to strong, healthy, and fresh for the in-season. Those off-days should include some flexibility training.

In-season training, 1 to 2 days at most and I would minimize to eliminate the plyometrics. Most of your conditioning will be done on the court so your additional conditioning is minimal as well. Your goal while in-season is to maintain as much strength as possible from the off-season; though you should expect to lose a little.

robertw486

Personally I don't think it's worth looking at the routine more than a quick glance? Why? Because the things you are describing are all based on exactly what YOU want to excel at. Do you want endurance lifting heavy things, or endurance moving only your mass?

While I can agree that compound lifts are a great foundation to overall fitness, I can't agree that it is any more solid of a foundation than cardio work. They both have their place, and neither in excess will lead to strong abilities in the other. That is why you won't see sprinters winning power lifting competitions, nor will you see bulky lifters winning distance runs. The idea is to adapt your body to the actual events you want or need to perform.


Every human body is a compromise of abilities. The ideal form for one set of abilities is not the ideal form for another set of abilities. You can be well rounded and be able to perform a variety of tasks at a fairly solid level, but without doubt you will suffer in some areas and excel in others.

rileyes

Great info. Common sense too. Soaking it all in...

Asher_Ethan

rileyes wrote: »

DYELB wrote: »

rileyes wrote: »

I want it all.

And I want a bentley

Tesla is better.

We just became best friends as this is my dream car.

You're missing flexibility. I would substitute a rest day for a day of flexibility.

Psychgrrl

Or just end each workout with a little yoga. That's what I do, about 20 minutes.

lisalsd1

You're probably going to need to increase your calories from maintenance.

rybo

I agree with what sam I am said. Good info

sk1982

Personally that sounds like too much...particularly wiht no scheduled rest

robertw486

rybo wrote: »

I agree with what sam I am said. Good info

I didn't see that as I was posting my response, but I also think that was solid input. It's easy to over train, and training specific to the task at hand is important.

ndj1979

Like other have pointed out you need adequate rest or one are of your training is going to suffer. I would suggest picking what goal is the most important to you, and then build a program around that goal. I would rather be big and strong, so I run a progressive lifting program and my cardio is minimal, because I hate steady state cardio.

are you new to lifting and have you ever run a structured lifting program before?

rileyes

Thanks all. I needed this.

For flexibility, I warm-up with dynamic stretching and have an Arsenal of static stretches particularly yoga (definitely need to do more of this). And my chair is a foam roller.
_____________________________________________________
@ndj1979 I have been running StrongLifts 5x5 inconsistently for a few months. I frequently deload 10-20% and may do 5x10. I have always added accessory lifts (thrusts, pull-ups, dips...) to help weaker areas or just for added interest. The heavy-lifting gives me the best visual results. I also feel like I have more power in my tennis. So I totally get your passion. I may just need to be more dedicated to get that frame of mind. As far as cardio goes, I am more interested in the cardio vascular conditioning than the distance. I would rather keep my cardio interesting (to me) in the form of circuit training.
_____________________________________________________
@robertw486 My focus is to achieve optimal health from the weights and cardio. And, you are right, my progress has suffered from trying too many things. I tend to be all over the place when I think of a competitive goal. I will do some research and find a coach for any specialized goal.
______________________________________________________
@Sam_I_Am77 You really helped put things into perspective. And, as usual, I slowed down to read your comment so I could digest. I understand that you are suggesting I could do the following?:

M/W/F 3x10 of compound lifts at a challenging weight with circuits to improve on weaknesses or enhance.
S/S/M 60 minutes of tennis (two are rest days). On the non-rest day, I can do a mix of plyometrics including jumps
and Medicine-Ball-Oblique-Throws while waiting for a court. Then I could to some agility drills on the court.
F I would like to add a PM-bleachers circuit to Friday's AM-strength training. I do a mix of steps going up (two-at-time, lateral...)
I push for speed going up and rest on the descent (1000 steps total) plus 4-5 laps on the track and 10 box jumps.
T/Th Rest days
Sat/Sun Active rest days.


So my week looks like this:
Monday: AM tennis+circuits/PM weights
Tuesday: rest
Wednesday: weights+circuits
Thursday: rest
Friday will be AM weights+circuits/PM bleachers
Saturday: active rest
Sunday: active rest

Here is a little more info...
Weight training session =45 minutes
Circuit training session =15-35 minutes

My weekly circuits include these:
lunges, step-ups, pull-ups, dips, rotations, planks, bridges and thrusts.
I do a mix of supersets each session with one maybe being Landmines and Kettlebell Swings.

My favorite warm-up is this:
50 JJ
10 Burpees
15 Squats
30 Mt. Climbers
15 Dips
10 Burpees
10 Lateral Lunges
40 High Knees
5 Push-ups
_____________________________________________________.

Sam_I_Am77

So you're basically in-season right now? From when until when?

M/W/F 3x10 of compound lifts at a challenging weight with circuits to improve on weaknesses or enhance.

Not really. Why 3x10? Why circuits? What do you feel your weaknesses are?

S/S/M 60 minutes of tennis (two are rest days). On the non-rest day, I can do a mix of plyometrics including jumps

No, I think you missed what I was trying to say.

F I would like to add a PM-bleachers circuit to Friday's AM-strength training. I do a mix of steps going up (two-at-time, lateral...)
I push for speed going up and rest on the descent (1000 steps total) plus 4-5 laps on the track and 10 box jumps.

Why do you do this? What is this getting you?

Edit: Sorry if that came off crappy, wasn't intended. I'm just curious as to where you're at with Tennis and why you're choosing certain routines and variables.

rileyes

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

So you're basically in-season right now? From when until when?

I have been playing tennis for fun 3 days a week, like, f o r e v e r. I can definitely step up my game with coaching or tournaments. I may go that route in spring. So I am thinking this is off-season.

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

Why 3x10? Why circuits? What do you feel your weaknesses are?

I thought the 3x10 was suggested. I looked at it as an alternative way as helping my strength progress.
I ran 5x5 and stalled before which helped create my inconsistency. Can more reps at a slightly lighter weight be a method used to break a plateau?

The circuits are so I can get more movements like walking lunges, step-ups and rotations in. The extra work seems to help with definition as well as mobility.

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

medicine ball/jumps/drillsNo, I think you missed what I was trying to say.

I was thinking of 10 ball throws/10 depth jumps/10 broad jumps on one strength training day. The concentrated explosive work to help with speed/strength. And a 3-minute tennis drill on the court to help with agility.

Sam_I_Am77 wrote: »

bleachersWhy do you do this? What is this getting you?

The bleachers help with my legs, explosiveness and stamina. And I like it.

My training sessions are about 60 minutes. And I have four rest days (two active).
What am I missing?

Sam_I_Am77

The 3x8-10 was suggested for the plyo work only. I'll message you.

robertw486

rileyes wrote: »

Thanks all. I needed this.

For flexibility, I warm-up with dynamic stretching and have an Arsenal of static stretches particularly yoga (definitely need to do more of this). And my chair is a foam roller.
_____________________________________________________
@ndj1979 I have been running StrongLifts 5x5 inconsistently for a few months. I frequently deload 10-20% and may do 5x10. I have always added accessory lifts (thrusts, pull-ups, dips...) to help weaker areas or just for added interest. The heavy-lifting gives me the best visual results. I also feel like I have more power in my tennis. So I totally get your passion. I may just need to be more dedicated to get that frame of mind. As far as cardio goes, I am more interested in the cardio vascular conditioning than the distance. I would rather keep my cardio interesting (to me) in the form of circuit training.
_____________________________________________________
@robertw486 My focus is to achieve optimal health from the weights and cardio. And, you are right, my progress has suffered from trying too many things. I tend to be all over the place when I think of a competitive goal. I will do some research and find a coach for any specialized goal.
______________________________________________________
@Sam_I_Am77 You really helped put things into perspective. And, as usual, I slowed down to read your comment so I could digest. I understand that you are suggesting I could do the following?:

M/W/F 3x10 of compound lifts at a challenging weight with circuits to improve on weaknesses or enhance.
S/S/M 60 minutes of tennis (two are rest days). On the non-rest day, I can do a mix of plyometrics including jumps
and Medicine-Ball-Oblique-Throws while waiting for a court. Then I could to some agility drills on the court.
F I would like to add a PM-bleachers circuit to Friday's AM-strength training. I do a mix of steps going up (two-at-time, lateral...)
I push for speed going up and rest on the descent (1000 steps total) plus 4-5 laps on the track and 10 box jumps.
T/Th Rest days
Sat/Sun Active rest days.


So my week looks like this:
Monday: AM tennis+circuits/PM weights
Tuesday: rest
Wednesday: weights+circuits
Thursday: rest
Friday will be AM weights+circuits/PM bleachers
Saturday: active rest
Sunday: active rest

Here is a little more info...
Weight training session =45 minutes
Circuit training session =15-35 minutes

My weekly circuits include these:
lunges, step-ups, pull-ups, dips, rotations, planks, bridges and thrusts.
I do a mix of supersets each session with one maybe being Landmines and Kettlebell Swings.

My favorite warm-up is this:
50 JJ
10 Burpees
15 Squats
30 Mt. Climbers
15 Dips
10 Burpees
10 Lateral Lunges
40 High Knees
5 Push-ups
_____________________________________________________.

I haven't played tennis on more than a casual level, but overall that new schedule makes a lot of sense to me. You're hitting a lot of different muscle groups as well as the flexibility angle.

McCloud33

I like my sports and when I'm "in season" my routine is really only modified by how many days I'm playing. I just generally supplement a running/cardio day with the day I play. So I still try and lift MWF and if I'm not in season, I run on TRS. I just try and make some of my accessory work more explosive to add to the compound lifts I do.

heatherwartanyan

Shaun T's beachbidy programs Insanity, Insanity the asylum, Insanity Max30 are all created to build every single one of those within their programs.

Sam_I_Am77

heatherwartanyan wrote: »

Shaun T's beachbidy programs Insanity, Insanity the asylum, Insanity Max30 are all created to build every single one of those within their programs.

Unfortunately when it comes to training athletes, those group fitness classes are typically the wrong way to train athletes. You can train the aerobic energy system of course, but that's about where the value stops. There are other aspects of an athlete that need to be trained as well. Training somebody for athletics versus training somebody for GPP are very different.

rileyes

I'm thinking of proceeding with SL5x5 until stall. Then I may modify by deloading or adding strength work to break through the plateau. I have full days available to divide my workouts. So I may add another block or two for circuits, supersets and/or cardio. Dynamic stretching and foam rolling before workout. Static stretching after or on rest days.


@McCloud33 --I'm looking t o incorporate more explosive work. It seems to help increase power a lot. And, I too, usually do some kind of 30-minute run if I'm not playing tennis.

@robertw486 --Thanks. I think it will work for me with slight alterations. I am able to create blocks throughout the day so I can get good breaks between workouts. So I'll try this new plan to see if it can help my consistency and strength. It may not be such drudgery knowing there may be an equal mix of easier and harder (below) weeks.

Mon: Tennis/Strength/Bleachers
Tues: Rest
Wed: Strength/Circuits/Cardio
Thurs: Rest
Fri: Strength/*Extra strength "plateau bust"/Circuits
Sat: Rest/Tennis
Sun: Rest/Tennis

My hardest work days will be Monday and **Friday. I can always eliminate "bleachers" and/or "plateau bust" on weeks calling for more rest.
My circuits will be varied to help with function/mobility and to keep things challenging. I may be seeking a PT for focus--waiting out the New Years wave to pass.

*Allan Thrall's strength training techniques to help bust through a plateau.
**I'm not sure how to schedule this heavy-azz push into my week. I was thinking of doing one day of heavy-as-I-can of this "plateau bust" on the week following a 10-20% deload of 5x5. And, Or I could schedule the full "plateau bust" once a week to begin and see how it goes.

@heatherwartanyan --I'm a bit familiar with those programs and some of my circuits may be similar. The circuits I do seem to help with agility and a bit of strength conditioning. I'll look more into the programs you listed.

@Sam_I_Am77 --I'm trying a bit of the plyometrics training as you described. It makes sense to have more concentrated effort. Those darn box jumps are going to play mind games with me as I add height though. I am trying to get the cleans right too (thinking of switching to a sand bag for this).

Sam_I_Am77

@Sam_I_Am77 --I'm trying a bit of the plyometrics training as you described. It makes sense to have more concentrated effort. Those darn box jumps are going to play mind games with me as I add height though. I am trying to get the cleans right too (thinking of switching to a sand bag for this).

Yeah I understand the box jump head-game issue for sure. I use to do box jumps religiously and then one day when I shouldn't have been doing them I did them anyway and fell 40" to the ground; luckily I didn't break anything. It was then I decided that they were too risky, I'm not competing in a box jumping contest, and there were other jumps I could be doing instead. If your main goal is to train to improve Tennis performance, then take that risk out of the picture to stay healthy for tennis.

I sent you a direct message, let me know if you have any questions. @rileyes

McCloud33

one of the best explosive jumping activities that I've found is do jump with the hexagonal trap baryoutube.com/watch?v=_okAciJVUv4
I do it with about 30-40% of my squat/deadlift max. I've done it with more, but I think I lose some form and can't concentrate on exploding up as high as possible. For me this is 140lbs compared to a 350ish squat and 415ish DL. A little safer than box jumps too as you're not getting as far off the floor.