Macronutrient Tracking The Bottom Line: Do You *Need* To Count Your Macros?
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I couldn't follow if Alan's statement was about tracking macros in general, or people that are so meticulous that they will or won't fit the last few grams of their allowance.
I'd agree that worrying that you're not meeting them exactly is disordered thinking.
If you're just tracking them? Eh , weighing and recording food with an app can be just 5 to 10 minutes a day. If you properly brushed teeth for 2 minutes, and did it 3x daily for 6 minutes total, is that obsessive brushing?
I don't think that the obsessiveness characteristic is a function of the amount of time it takes to do it.
People often bring up "time" when discussing whether or not meticulous logging, or logging of any kind, is a behavior that someone should engage in.
But People can spend very little time actually in MyFitnessPal logging numbers and spend a great deal of time either thinking about those numbers constantly, or engaging in behaviors that eventually make them uncomfortable such as having your last meal of the day consist of four almonds and half a slice of bread.
They can (although most of us do not, of course), but claiming that follows from tracking macros and thus that doing so is related to mental illness and causes EDs would still be wrong (and that IS what OP seemed to be claiming).0 -
good article...i've long taken the stance that it's good to be aware of your macros and i did log and track them early on in order to balance my diet out...for me it was a great learning tool but something i always wanted to "graduate" from and i have been "graduated" for more than 2 1/2 years now.
there's a big difference between being aware of your macros and your calories and obsessing to the point of, "ermergherd i'm over on this or under on that...what day i do...should i skip dinner, etc?" i see a lot of that kind of obsession on MFP.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »there's a big difference between being aware of your macros and your calories and obsessing to the point of, "ermergherd i'm over on this or under on that...what day i do...should i skip dinner, etc?" i see a lot of that kind of obsession on MFP.
Interesting. I guess I just don't see that. Maybe I'm in the wrong threads.0 -
I like the concept of macro nutrient awareness a lot rather than carefully logging macros. In the relatively short time frames that I have used calorie counting as a tool to achieve certain (non body building) goals I have never tracked macros closely. I think it is overkill for the average dieter and even recreational athlete personally.
Do I understand that if my cycling or running performance starts flagging I should gravitate towards foods containing more carbs? Sure.
Do I understand that if my hormonal balance is out of wack and I start crying over cute dog gifs that I may need to gravitate towards foods containing more fat? Sure.
Do I understand that....errrr....I'm sure you all catch my drift.
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I couldn't follow if Alan's statement was about tracking macros in general, or people that are so meticulous that they will or won't fit the last few grams of their allowance.
I'd agree that worrying that you're not meeting them exactly is disordered thinking.
If you're just tracking them? Eh , weighing and recording food with an app can be just 5 to 10 minutes a day. If you properly brushed teeth for 2 minutes, and did it 3x daily for 6 minutes total, is that obsessive brushing?
I don't think that the obsessiveness characteristic is a function of the amount of time it takes to do it.
People often bring up "time" when discussing whether or not meticulous logging, or logging of any kind, is a behavior that someone should engage in.
But People can spend very little time actually in MyFitnessPal logging numbers and spend a great deal of time either thinking about those numbers constantly, or engaging in behaviors that eventually make them uncomfortable such as having your last meal of the day consist of four almonds and half a slice of bread.
Fair enough. If someone told me they constantly thought about the next time they're going to brush or whether they're going for spearmint or wintermint, I'd probably call that an issue.
I suppose the biggest considerations are how much anxiety does the behavior or not doing the behavior causes.
The bottom line is whether or not it causes issues for the individual, IMO.
As Eric Helms once said in an interview:
One person gets up, gets ready for work, turns the light switch on and off 20 times and goes to work and comes home and everything is fine.
Another person gets up, gets ready for work, turns the light switch on and off 20 times and says "I hate this and I want to kill myself".
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I couldn't follow if Alan's statement was about tracking macros in general, or people that are so meticulous that they will or won't fit the last few grams of their allowance.
I'd agree that worrying that you're not meeting them exactly is disordered thinking.
If you're just tracking them? Eh , weighing and recording food with an app can be just 5 to 10 minutes a day. If you properly brushed teeth for 2 minutes, and did it 3x daily for 6 minutes total, is that obsessive brushing?
I don't think that the obsessiveness characteristic is a function of the amount of time it takes to do it.
People often bring up "time" when discussing whether or not meticulous logging, or logging of any kind, is a behavior that someone should engage in.
But People can spend very little time actually in MyFitnessPal logging numbers and spend a great deal of time either thinking about those numbers constantly, or engaging in behaviors that eventually make them uncomfortable such as having your last meal of the day consist of four almonds and half a slice of bread.
They can (although most of us do not, of course), but claiming that follows from tracking macros and thus that doing so is related to mental illness and causes EDs would still be wrong (and that IS what OP seemed to be claiming).
I think the OP claimed that it can occur and I think that's a fair statement.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I don't see Alan Aragon saying that counting your macros will lead to EDs. What he is quoted as saying in the piece you quoted is:Nutrition expert Alan Aragon doesn’t meticulously count his own macros, but he too sees the value in at least having some macronutrient awareness. “People take things to the extreme,” he said. “I think it’s ridiculous when people track and say, ‘Oh, I have 17 grams of carbohydrates and 2 grams of fat and 2 grams of protein left for today so that means I can eat half a Pop-Tart.’” He said it’s better if they assess if they’re actually hungry instead.
I tend to approach it the same way when I'm not logging, but when I'm logging I automatically count macros. I don't see anyone saying they are obsessive about hitting them on the nose. Personally I have a general rough macro breakdown I tend to eat at (if I don't no biggie, but how I eat puts me there and if I was way off I'd like to know) and a protein minimum (that I usually am well above, not always, just because I tend to enjoy foods with protein).
I agree with this and this is what I got out of the piece. There's a difference between being aware of them and aiming to hit them in general with a goal for satiety and nutrition and micromanaging them into obsession.
I'm currently not tracking due to a hectic schedule and a kitchen that's a bit of a tip thanks to moving house. Thanks to a year of tracking, I'm vaguely aware of my intake and macro balance anyway. It's nice having that knowledge or "awareness" right now.
Like you, I tend to have a rough macro breakdown I prefer when I eat my meals, because I find it to be most sating. A certain balance of protein/carbs/fat is satisfying for me. The only exception to this is popcorn. I find that to be filling on its own. The thing is, I instinctively cook in a way and prefer dishes which give me my satiating macro breakdown.0 -
PeachyCarol wrote: »
Like you, I tend to have a rough macro breakdown I prefer when I eat my meals, because I find it to be most sating. A certain balance of protein/carbs/fat is satisfying for me. The only exception to this is popcorn. I find that to be filling on its own. The thing is, I instinctively cook in a way and prefer dishes which give me my satiating macro breakdown.
I think there is a lot to be said for gut instinct (pardon the pun.)
So, many people do very well with having a clear idea of what their calorie goal should be and achieving that and then experimenting with their macros (or more simply differing foods) until they find a good fit intuitively or through trial and error.
Unless you have pretty specific high end goals then prescriptive macros settings aren't all that necessary (again in my view.)
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lemurcat12 wrote: »I couldn't follow if Alan's statement was about tracking macros in general, or people that are so meticulous that they will or won't fit the last few grams of their allowance.
I'd agree that worrying that you're not meeting them exactly is disordered thinking.
If you're just tracking them? Eh , weighing and recording food with an app can be just 5 to 10 minutes a day. If you properly brushed teeth for 2 minutes, and did it 3x daily for 6 minutes total, is that obsessive brushing?
I don't think that the obsessiveness characteristic is a function of the amount of time it takes to do it.
People often bring up "time" when discussing whether or not meticulous logging, or logging of any kind, is a behavior that someone should engage in.
But People can spend very little time actually in MyFitnessPal logging numbers and spend a great deal of time either thinking about those numbers constantly, or engaging in behaviors that eventually make them uncomfortable such as having your last meal of the day consist of four almonds and half a slice of bread.
They can (although most of us do not, of course), but claiming that follows from tracking macros and thus that doing so is related to mental illness and causes EDs would still be wrong (and that IS what OP seemed to be claiming).
I think the OP claimed that it can occur and I think that's a fair statement.
Calling tracking a "mental illness" seems like more than that, although I realize that's the James Fell article he's quoting (and Fell is normally reasonable enough).
I don't really think it's a fair statement to claim that tracking causes that. Obsessing over hitting numbers precisely is, well, obsessive, but that's not the same thing as just tracking (which anyone who logs here will be doing, even if they choose not to pay attention).0 -
Unless you have pretty specific high end goals then prescriptive macros settings aren't all that necessary (again in my view.)
I agree with this, but that doesn't mean that looking at macros or customizing goals based on a protein goal or what seems to work for you is pointless or, worse, somehow counterproductive for most or a mental illness.
Mine largely match up with my own ideas of how to construct a meal, but it's still interesting (when I am tracking, which I do only off and on) to notice that I was feeling off in a run and then look and see, hmm, I was low on carbs in the morning and the day before. Might make me remember to add some starches to dinner (although I likely would do that naturally).
Also, trying out different suggestions that you might not naturally do (like Matt Fitzgerald's much higher carb eating style for endurance sports) could not only prove to be helpful (or not) if you choose to experiment, but experimenting might even get you excited about tracking everyone (like calories) again, for people who may be feeling in a rut. It doesn't have to be assumed that people will be weirdly obsessive or do it in ways that are unhelpful for them. I don't think everyone should (or will benefit from) tracking macros, but it seems the same in reverse to preach that there's something bad or weird about it or that people will necessarily approach it in an unhelpful way or find it burdensome.
I tend to think that most people, even if not a bodybuilder or elite athlete (but just a normal person like me) might find it useful to understand better what they are eating and to experiment some if interested in doing so. (I do think specific macro ratios are personal and don't matter much -- I don't care where my fat vs. carbs fall, most of the time, and it's preference that keeps me around where I am.)0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Unless you have pretty specific high end goals then prescriptive macros settings aren't all that necessary (again in my view.)
I agree with this, but that doesn't mean that looking at macros or customizing goals based on a protein goal or what seems to work for you is pointless or, worse, somehow counterproductive for most or a mental illness.
Mine largely match up with my own ideas of how to construct a meal, but it's still interesting (when I am tracking, which I do only off and on) to notice that I was feeling off in a run and then look and see, hmm, I was low on carbs in the morning and the day before. Might make me remember to add some starches to dinner (although I likely would do that naturally).
Also, trying out different suggestions that you might not naturally do (like Matt Fitzgerald's much higher carb eating style for endurance sports) could not only prove to be helpful (or not) if you choose to experiment, but experimenting might even get you excited about tracking everyone (like calories) again, for people who may be feeling in a rut. It doesn't have to be assumed that people will be weirdly obsessive or do it in ways that are unhelpful for them. I don't think everyone should (or will benefit from) tracking macros, but it seems the same in reverse to preach that there's something bad or weird about it or that people will necessarily approach it in an unhelpful way or find it burdensome.
I tend to think that most people, even if not a bodybuilder or elite athlete (but just a normal person like me) might find it useful to understand better what they are eating and to experiment some if interested in doing so. (I do think specific macro ratios are personal and don't matter much -- I don't care where my fat vs. carbs fall, most of the time, and it's preference that keeps me around where I am.)
Sure, that all seems pretty reasonable.
It's a cost v benefit thing and will vary depending on the individual and any specific vulnerabilities .
I think personally however that for many people (and I rather suspect most people in the general population rather than say MFP specifically) a simpler / looser approach will be a better fit.0 -
Well, I'm assuming someone logging (whether on MFP or somewhere else) or tracking is tough, yeah.
When I'm not doing MFP I still tend to think in a way that's consistent with macro counting somewhat, though (without counting them or calories, of course). For example, my meals tend to include a protein course, some fat as an accent or to cook with, a large vegetable course, and a starch or fruit side. I intuitively know to cut the fat and starch some to cut calories and to add more high cal extras (like some cheese or switching out leaner cuts for fattier ones) to increase calories or some starch if I'm doing more activity. That's not counting, but it's not that different, and for me thinking about it this way (and that I did already before starting to log on MFP, as that's kind of what I grew up thinking a balanced meal was) made it easier to structure meals than if I just approached it as about calories.
So I don't think thinking about macros is unhelpful at all. (I also think this is consistent with the Alan Aragon quote in the piece.)0 -
I do count my macro's and watch them carefully. I don't always hit them but when I do I feel the best physically and mentally. At first it was a pain but it got easier after a few weeks. I didn't start out counting macro's. I basically started just tracking my calories in/out and exercising. Once I lost all of my weight and decided I need to build muscle (tear down/re-build), I started looking at my macros. I certainly eat more protein on days where I lift and more carbs on days where I run but I keep them fairly consistent. It has helped me to eat good, whole and healthier foods. I find it beneficial but think folks that have a lot of weight to lose should just focus on the calories in/out first, then go after the macro's. I don't use IIFYM, I think in terms of eating to perform e.g., I eat macro's depending upon my daily activity.0
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For the purpose of "losing weight" and fat in general - then thermodynamics dictates calories is the most important thing.
For the purpose of body composition and keeping as much muscle and lean body mass as possible while leaning out, macros and adequate protein intake are critical.
So count your calories, and track your macros
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For the purpose of "losing weight" and fat in general - then thermodynamics dictates calories is the most important thing.
For the purpose of body composition and keeping as much muscle and lean body mass as possible while leaning out, macros and adequate protein intake are critical.
Yes to the aboveSo count your calories, and track your macros
but not necessarily yes to this.
It depends.
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