Do you Tabata?
jeepinshawn
Posts: 642 Member
Anyone else here working out to a tabata style program? Been doing a workout on Daily Burn by Cody Story called Tactical Body Weight training, it is 2 days of Tabata style workouts with 2 days off for mobility and restorative yoga...Been at it for 6 weeks or so now, feeling pretty good so far...
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Replies
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I have in the past, although I am not right now. I like interval training !!!0
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Tabata protocol is much much more intense than "Tabata" style workouts. Basically it should to be referred to as HIIT training or interval training since the Tababta Protocol isn't easily achieved and IMO does a disservice to the inventor of the program.
I hate that the fitness industry makes up many program names that don't even come close to the original idea just to make a buck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I used to do a specific Tabata class and loved it. Since I moved I'm now doing a HIIT class that is similar, but it varies the intervals. I love that the speed and intensity of the class reduces the potential for boredom while improving my cardio and strength.0
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Im doing tabata as well on daily burn but not that program im doing the on in total cardio and i enjoy it!0
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Tabata protocol is much much more intense than "Tabata" style workouts. Basically it should to be referred to as HIIT training or interval training since the Tababta Protocol isn't easily achieved and IMO does a disservice to the inventor of the program.
I hate that the fitness industry makes up many program names that don't even come close to the original idea just to make a buck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Have you done the program I'm referring too? It seems pretty much like what I have read, with some very slight variations. 90 on 30 secs off and 20seconds on 10 secs off...I agree though the different names for the same or similar exercises is confusing. I do sprawls, which appear to be the same thing my wife does which she calls burpees...Things like that make it hard to tell other people about your exercise program.0 -
I've tried, but feel like I simply can't build up enough intensity in 20 seconds doing things like burpees. I got closer using a flywheel spin bike, but honestly, it was so unpleasant, I stopped doing them.
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I do my own HIIT thing daily with sprinting and one big black, very fast dog. Basically, we do one long walk around our large track (my huge fieldland by the woods, lol) at a slower rate so she sniffs things first --her requirement. That's low to moderate level, some jogging
Then we do max 15-20 seconds of lungs-screaming running like our lives depend on it. Then we walk at a slow to moderate pace until I can do another sprint, lol. That may take several minutes! So we mostly walk or lightly jog. But man, those sprints are great fun and crazy hard, so I do love them. It's hard to get past 20-seconds, though! They are really rough! 0 -
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Huh, interesting. I guess int he end it doesn't matter what it is called if it builds muscle and increases your cardio vascular health. I know by the end of my sessions even my undies are soaked with sweat. That tells me Im getting a good workout lol.0
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ninerbuff, could you define/explain Tabata and HIIT? I appreciate your concern - it seems Tabata is a licensed program and I've not seen anything authoritative which describes it in detail. HIIT seems to be more generic - most of us just "know" what we've heard, read or been taught by someone who may or may not be qualified. Like others have noted, my personal experience is that cycling intervals and 30 secs on and off cardio/wts have been effective for me.0
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Tabata protocol is much much more intense than "Tabata" style workouts. Basically it should to be referred to as HIIT training or interval training since the Tababta Protocol isn't easily achieved and IMO does a disservice to the inventor of the program.
I hate that the fitness industry makes up many program names that don't even come close to the original idea just to make a buck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I used to feel the same way until I heard about this:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-real-tabata-brutal-circuit-from-the-protocols-inventor.html
Looks like Dr T himself is jumping on the bandwagon.0 -
ninerbuff, could you define/explain Tabata and HIIT? I appreciate your concern - it seems Tabata is a licensed program and I've not seen anything authoritative which describes it in detail. HIIT seems to be more generic - most of us just "know" what we've heard, read or been taught by someone who may or may not be qualified. Like others have noted, my personal experience is that cycling intervals and 30 secs on and off cardio/wts have been effective for me.
There is a link in another comment to an article by Tony Gentilcore that provides more details. You can also go to bodyrecomposition.com and type "tabata" into the search window for even more detail.
The specific tabata protocol is 20 secs of all-out effort, followed by 10 sec rest, repeated 8 times for a total of 4 min. The original study was reported in the late 1990s. Subjects were competitive speed skaters using a stationary bike. The workload was set at a wattage level that represented 170% of their VO2max. So the effort was not just maximal, it was supramaximal. Oh and they also did one extended steady-state cycling workout per week.
The study compared this workout to a standard steady state workout routine. Results did not focus on calorie burn, but VO2 Max (aerobic fitness capacity). VO2 Max increased in both groups but increased slightly more in the "tabata" group. One of the interesting things if you look at the data is that VO2 Max increased after 2 wks of the study and then plateaued. This is entirely consistent with decades of both research studies and anecdotal training experience. The main significance of the tabata study was to show that fitness levels could be maintained using a very low volume of exercise, if done at this supramaximal intensity levels.
Other than, to be honest, I don't think it has that much to distinguish it from other forms of high-intensity training that has been done for decades.
I think many people get stuck in exercise ruts, and so they overreact when they try something new. If someone has been doing nothing but low-level, steady-state cardio, then introducing high-intensity interval training will likely result in dramatic improvement. But they make the mistake of concluding that the new exercise is "superior", when in fact it's just "different".
But it is axiomatic in the fitness world that anything new must be immediately packaged, franchised, and marketed as "The Bestest Most Awesomest Thing EVAH!!!!" And from a practical standpoint, it's a lot easier for a trainer to sell a high-energy, complex workout that uses an exotic-sounding name.
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Dan John on the Tabata protocol.0
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A 1996 study by Professor Izumi Tabata, et al and Tabata called his protocol 1E1. "Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max." Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 28 (10): 1327–30. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8897392. Followed by "Metabolic profile of high intensity intermittent exercises" in 1997. Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise 29 (3): 390–5. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9139179.
Peter Coe probably coined the term. Rumor has it that it was a take on High Intensity Training (HIT), a form of strength training, popularized in the 1970s by Arthur Jones, the founder of Nautilus. [Do not confuse the two as one is for strength (instantaneous force) and the other is for power (force per unit of time).]
The phosphagen system is the metabolic pathway used when doing HIIT. This pathway used the very limited supply of ATP (Adenosine triphosphate), the energy currency of the body, stored in the muscles (approximately 10 seconds) and the re-phosphorylation of ADP from phospocreatine (half-life for phosphocreatine resynthesis is about 20-30 seconds) stores providing enough for about 25 seconds total. Hence intervals are 20 seconds with 1:1 or more rest period between intervals.
Gibala's group published a less intense version of their regimen in a 2011 paper in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise and that is probably what is being marketed as "HIIT". Didn't help that Timmons didn't correct Michael Mosley misrepresentation of HIIT in February 2012 BBC Horizon program. Gibala regimen, sometimes referred to as "The Little Method", consist of 60 seconds of intense exercise (at 95% of VO2max) followed by 75 seconds of rest, repeated for 8–12 cycles for three times a week. The study done in 2009 shows it to have the same benefit as doing steady state (50–70% VO2max) training five times per week. Although it's lump together with the other three regimen, it really isn't HIIT. The walk away should be on the impact of short-term fatigue.
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ninerbuff, could you define/explain Tabata and HIIT? I appreciate your concern - it seems Tabata is a licensed program and I've not seen anything authoritative which describes it in detail. HIIT seems to be more generic - most of us just "know" what we've heard, read or been taught by someone who may or may not be qualified. Like others have noted, my personal experience is that cycling intervals and 30 secs on and off cardio/wts have been effective for me.
25 second power or less, L7 or neuromuscular power, is the norm for cycling. Typically it's 15 second power. 30 second power in L6 or anaerobic capacity which >= 121% of your average power in a 60 minute time trial. It is not HIIT. Do a functional threshold power test then you can tell if you're in the right training level with respect to your 30 second effort.0 -
ninerbuff, could you define/explain Tabata and HIIT? I appreciate your concern - it seems Tabata is a licensed program and I've not seen anything authoritative which describes it in detail. HIIT seems to be more generic - most of us just "know" what we've heard, read or been taught by someone who may or may not be qualified. Like others have noted, my personal experience is that cycling intervals and 30 secs on and off cardio/wts have been effective for me.
There is a link in another comment to an article by Tony Gentilcore that provides more details. You can also go to bodyrecomposition.com and type "tabata" into the search window for even more detail.
The specific tabata protocol is 20 secs of all-out effort, followed by 10 sec rest, repeated 8 times for a total of 4 min. The original study was reported in the late 1990s. Subjects were competitive speed skaters using a stationary bike. The workload was set at a wattage level that represented 170% of their VO2max. So the effort was not just maximal, it was supramaximal. Oh and they also did one extended steady-state cycling workout per week.
The study compared this workout to a standard steady state workout routine. Results did not focus on calorie burn, but VO2 Max (aerobic fitness capacity). VO2 Max increased in both groups but increased slightly more in the "tabata" group. One of the interesting things if you look at the data is that VO2 Max increased after 2 wks of the study and then plateaued. This is entirely consistent with decades of both research studies and anecdotal training experience. The main significance of the tabata study was to show that fitness levels could be maintained using a very low volume of exercise, if done at this supramaximal intensity levels.
Other than, to be honest, I don't think it has that much to distinguish it from other forms of high-intensity training that has been done for decades.
I think many people get stuck in exercise ruts, and so they overreact when they try something new. If someone has been doing nothing but low-level, steady-state cardio, then introducing high-intensity interval training will likely result in dramatic improvement. But they make the mistake of concluding that the new exercise is "superior", when in fact it's just "different".
But it is axiomatic in the fitness world that anything new must be immediately packaged, franchised, and marketed as "The Bestest Most Awesomest Thing EVAH!!!!" And from a practical standpoint, it's a lot easier for a trainer to sell a high-energy, complex workout that uses an exotic-sounding name.
I have connective tissue problems that for me result in injuries with too much repetition. I love the fact that short bursts are helpful! I can do the sprints well, because they don't go on and on. I can't believe I found a running activity that I can do! It's so awesome.
I read studies on it for blood glucose, because mine got high after my sprints. It turns out that HIIT like I'm doing it did have a great overall effect on blood sugar levels, too. (The rise right afterwards is normal, turns out). That's with so little time spent exercising!
**BTW, if anyone here knows what a T2 diabetic (not on insulin) should do as far as carbs and HIIT, that would be so helpful! I still can't figure out whether I need carbs before the sprints or not. I have problems with liver dumps of glucose, so I thought that eating a snack would be better. OTOH, since my glucose gets high afterwards anyway and the energy system is different with anaerobic exercise, maybe I should skip the snack? Dunno really. The whole sprint-and-walk cycle with my dog only takes about 25-30 minutes. My rest periods are quite long compared to those protocols, lol.0 -
TRUE Tabata is 100% balls to the wall effort on every interval. That's why it's only 20 seconds because the energy push and lactic acid build up is fast and tops out at 20 seconds. If one can go more than 20 seconds..............it's NOT Tabata protocol, it's HIIT or interval training. Most people will put in about 65%-85% effort on each interval and that's a far cry from 100%. That's why it's really rare for people to actually do Tabata.jeepinshawn wrote: »Tabata protocol is much much more intense than "Tabata" style workouts. Basically it should to be referred to as HIIT training or interval training since the Tababta Protocol isn't easily achieved and IMO does a disservice to the inventor of the program.
I hate that the fitness industry makes up many program names that don't even come close to the original idea just to make a buck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Have you done the program I'm referring too? It seems pretty much like what I have read, with some very slight variations. 90 on 30 secs off and 20seconds on 10 secs off...I agree though the different names for the same or similar exercises is confusing. I do sprawls, which appear to be the same thing my wife does which she calls burpees...Things like that make it hard to tell other people about your exercise program.
Try just sprinting as fast as you can for 20 seconds, 10 second rest and let me know if you make it past the 3rd interval. Remember you CAN'T slow down till the 20 seconds are up, so full sprint.
You'll see the difference right away on what Tabata Protocol really entails.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
Still though, it's about 100% all out effort on the intervals. The majority of people who attempt any Tababta style workout put in about 65%-85% effort.Tabata protocol is much much more intense than "Tabata" style workouts. Basically it should to be referred to as HIIT training or interval training since the Tababta Protocol isn't easily achieved and IMO does a disservice to the inventor of the program.
I hate that the fitness industry makes up many program names that don't even come close to the original idea just to make a buck.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I used to feel the same way until I heard about this:
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-real-tabata-brutal-circuit-from-the-protocols-inventor.html
Looks like Dr T himself is jumping on the bandwagon.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
0 -
There are two anaerobic (without oxygen) pathways: non-aerobic glycolysis and phosphagen system. Lactic acid or blood lactate is a by-product of the non-aerobic glycolysis.
If you are generating a lot of lactic acid, your intensity is too low for HIIT.0
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