Just started Stronglifts 5x5, question about weight increases

ovidnine

nordlead2005 wrote: »

Some advanced lifters squat every day, so I fail to see how 3x/week and quick progression makes it a flawed program. Squatting 3x/week doesn't even bother my knees, they are pretty much the last thing I think about when it comes to aches and pains. Also, many people go months before a single deload. If you follow the program as written, you are supposed to deload 10%, and if you have to deload 2 times at the same lift then move to 3x5, then 3x3, then 1x3 or another program.

*snipped some good stuff*

So yes, you'll have to go to another program eventually as it is a beginner to possibly intermediate program, but if you like SL there is no reason to abandon it 3 months in.

Hope you don't mind I edited your post a bit to respond.

SL is flawed, but its also fine for beginners, especially if they're told (like the OP) its really ok to progress as you feel you can and not be beholden to an app or progression.

3x a week squatting isn't a huge deal. I'm starting a program where I squat daily and I'm at best intermediate. So you are completely correct there.

SL's flaws from an actual lifting standpoint come in its lack of hypertrophy work. A lot of beginners would actually be better served doing sets of 3x8-10 than 5x5. You get stronger, but you don't put on a lot of muscle mass so that when you tap out on strength, which might be awhile definitely, you deload, and build up, but then you keep having to deload because you aren't growing the muscle mass you need.

Its a wonderful beginner program because of its simplicity and anything that gets people lifting can't be all bad, but unless you're doing a variant like Ice Cream 5x5 after 3-4 months most people would probably be better served by switching to a program that involves a bit more hypertrophy work thrown in with the pure strength work.

That said, there's nothing wrong with sticking with SL forever if you have the mentality to do so. I know looking back I wish I'd switched off of SL after the initial 3 months instead of plugging away for another 3 and battling frustration as to why I wasn't seeing any real changes in my body and why I was having to deload so often.

amyk0202

ovidnine wrote: »

Hope you don't mind I edited your post a bit to respond.

SL is flawed, but its also fine for beginners, especially if they're told (like the OP) its really ok to progress as you feel you can and not be beholden to an app or progression.

3x a week squatting isn't a huge deal. I'm starting a program where I squat daily and I'm at best intermediate. So you are completely correct there.

SL's flaws from an actual lifting standpoint come in its lack of hypertrophy work. A lot of beginners would actually be better served doing sets of 3x8-10 than 5x5. You get stronger, but you don't put on a lot of muscle mass so that when you tap out on strength, which might be awhile definitely, you deload, and build up, but then you keep having to deload because you aren't growing the muscle mass you need.

Its a wonderful beginner program because of its simplicity and anything that gets people lifting can't be all bad, but unless you're doing a variant like Ice Cream 5x5 after 3-4 months most people would probably be better served by switching to a program that involves a bit more hypertrophy work thrown in with the pure strength work.

That said, there's nothing wrong with sticking with SL forever if you have the mentality to do so. I know looking back I wish I'd switched off of SL after the initial 3 months instead of plugging away for another 3 and battling frustration as to why I wasn't seeing any real changes in my body and why I was having to deload so often.

Could you clarify that for me? I will be starting SL in the next couple weeks--I'm ordering a rack & everything to set up at home. I don't really know anything about weight lifting. Are you saying that doing 3x8-10 sets adds more muscle mass, while doing 5x5 sets gives less mass but still adds strength? Hypertrophy is adding mass & you don't progress (eventually) unless you add mass?

ovidnine

amyk0202 wrote: »

Could you clarify that for me? I will be starting SL in the next couple weeks--I'm ordering a rack & everything to set up at home. I don't really know anything about weight lifting. Are you saying that doing 3x8-10 sets adds more muscle mass, while doing 5x5 sets gives less mass but still adds strength? Hypertrophy is adding mass & you don't progress (eventually) unless you add mass?

I don't want to sound like I'm knocking SL or any other intro program. I used it, its great to get people into lifting. I really want to make that clear.

Greg Nuckols breaks it down WAY better than me, so read this if you're interested.

Its just that usually after the first few months and it varies from person to person depending on a bunch of factors, but after a few months and your noob gains, you're just not going to be getting enough volume to really progress that well.

Here's an overly simplistic breakdown of X reps to what you're gaining:

1-3 reps power The ability to blast the bar up and maximal strength

3-5 reps strength Build your muscles to help with heavier loads

7-10 reps hypertrophy Grow the size of your muscle fibers and get and keep your muscles used to working the motion.

Ideally a program should involve a bit of all of this. Doing hypertrophy all the time will get your muscles bigger, but if you never spend any time moving heavier weight, your overall strength isn't going to go up as much.

On the other hand doing SL is going to make you stronger and that's good, however, at some point, you need to also focus on making your muscle fibers bigger as well. (They'll get bigger/tighter to a degree doing 5x5, especially at first, but nothing like actually focusing on hypertrophy.)

Bigger muscles = more strength potential. You still have to then work at building up your strength, but that's what Greg's and most intermediate to advanced programs focus on: periodization.

That's basically spending some time doing hypertrophy work, some time doing "strength", and maybe a little bit on the "power" work as well. Good programs will incorporate all of that to varying degrees depending on what you're aiming for.

As he breaks it down here's an example and a super simple way to do it:

Start by doing 3x8 and add weight each time until you can't.

Then switch to 5x5 and repeat.

Then 5x3.

Then back to 3x8, etc.

Very basic example, but it works.

If you're interested in a really awesome read for beginner lifters I'd suggest checking out Greg's "The Art of Lifting" ebook. Its for sale on his website (and no, I'm not affiliated with him at all) but even if you don't, that article gives some great ideas on how to adapt beginner programs to be a bit more well rounded.

But there is nothing wrong with running SL or any of the others as written until you get tired of it. It teaches you how to do the big compound lifts properly and does work even if its not necessarily "optimal" for longer use.

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ovidnine

GuitarJerry wrote: »

This is way to complicated for someone starting out. Way, way too much.

Basically, stick with Stronglifts. When you top out in 3 to 12 months or more, come back and ask how to advance.

I really shouldn't try and write anything after a few drinks. It'd be a lot less complicated sounding I think.

I hope I did make clear that there isn't anything wrong with SL, just putting out different options after you get the basic lifts and ideas down.

I know I would've been happy running across that when I was an uber-noob, but that is me and I'm probably projecting a bit.

Please, don't think I'm crapping on beginner programs that do work or think I know everything! I certainly do not! And I apologize for wandering the OP's thread off track, this really wasn't the place for my ramblings and I didn't mean to distract from the initial question.

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ovidnine

You too!