Higher rep Squats and breathing?
McCloud33
Posts: 959 Member
I came from about 18 months of doing stronglifts. Going on my third month of 5/3/1 now and enjoying it. Here's my question/dilemma...I started fairly light on my squats three months ago (used a 1RM of 285 when it was probably closer to 330) and figured I would just build my way back up slowly, but not really realizing just how slow the progression is for 5/3/1 and was fine going for rep maxes instead of true maxes. My problem now is that for squats, when I get to the last set of AMRAP, I'm up over 10 reps and I know my muscles can do it, but it's hard to keep breathing and stay tight under the load which leads to me starting to get light headed and racking the weight. I think my true 1RM is probably up closer to 400, but I can't get to the equivalent reps for that. This morning I did 245x11 and felt like I had at least 5 more in my muscles, but like I said, started to feel light headed. I tried to break at the top for a few seconds and breathe, but they're just short shallow breaths with the weight on my shoulders.
Anyone else have this issue or any tricks to help deal with it? Should I just up my training max so that I'm working with heavier weights, but at a lower rep range maxing out at closer to ten reps?
This is the only lift that I have this problem on as it's the only one that compresses my torso like this. Especially on the 1st and 2nd weeks of the cycle, I'm up in the low teens for most of my lifts.
Anyone else have this issue or any tricks to help deal with it? Should I just up my training max so that I'm working with heavier weights, but at a lower rep range maxing out at closer to ten reps?
This is the only lift that I have this problem on as it's the only one that compresses my torso like this. Especially on the 1st and 2nd weeks of the cycle, I'm up in the low teens for most of my lifts.
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Take more time to take deep breaths each rep, or every other rep, of every third rep, as needed.
If I'm doing something like a 12, 15, or 20 rep heavy set I might do the first 8-10 reps or so without pause before the oxygen debt hits me, then pause and take a deep breath every couple of reps, then a deep breath between each rep, then two deep breaths between each rep, all the way up to taking 3 to 5 deeeeep breathes between each of those last few reps of a 15-20 rep set.
Another tip is to start taking those deep breaths between reps **before** you get to the point that you feel light headed. You're already dead at that point and you're unlikely to catch up while still under the load.0 -
@DavPul but how do you get those deep breathes? I guess that's more of my problem...It feels physically impossible to take a deep breath with anything over 225 on my back. Is it worth putting even heavier weight (315?) on and just stand there breathing with it for a couple minutes to get used to breathing. That way if I can take deep breathes with 315, I can take deep breathes with 250+?0
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@DavPul but how do you get those deep breathes? I guess that's more of my problem...It feels physically impossible to take a deep breath with anything over 225 on my back. Is it worth putting even heavier weight (315?) on and just stand there breathing with it for a couple minutes to get used to breathing. That way if I can take deep breathes with 315, I can take deep breathes with 250+?
I haven't tried something like that so I can't say. It doesn't sound lines something I'd be interested in tho. I'd be more inclined to try taking more breaths if I felt they weren't deep enough0 -
The final set is supposed to work on a PR, not be an AMRAP set. (I'm not saying not to do the reps you're doing but that seems like a common misunderstanding when it comes to 5/3/1.)
That being said, thanks for starting this thread. The topic and DavPul's advice are interesting/good to know. I just read this the other day, which talks a bit about your idea of trying out heavier weight.0 -
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@jemhh how is AMRAP different from setting a PR? This was why I asked if I should bump up my training max as well. That way I can still set PR but not have to do as many reps (keep it under 10). For example, per the program, my PR for squat is 340 (245x11reps). In order to hit a new PR next week, I'll have to do 260x10 which will pretty much be AMRAP because of my breathing LOL.0
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Hmm, I'm not lifting as heavy, but I don't have much trouble breathing between reps under similar load %.
Maybe try practicing these? They're sorta to help build your core but seems like it might help you with your breathing problem too?
https://youtube.com/watch?v=aDZveZtrqcQ 0 -
I have the same problem.. i think mine is due to my Blood Pressure. I went to the Dr and got on some meds to bring it down a bit. Today is leg day so we will find out if thats the real problem..0
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Make sure you're not inadvertently holding your breath during the squat.0
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I'm far from an expert, so take it for what it's worth... but I've gotten to where I pause and reset my breathing between almost every rep, regardless of my rep range. It helps keep my posture/form as well. I picked it up watching Marisa Inda squat vids on IG.0
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You need to be able let air out so you can breath under load, without totally losing your brace. That's basically where breathing drills (like posted above) can help. A good resource for stuff like this (90/90 breathing techniques, etc) is Ryan Brown/Quinn Henoch @ JTS (Chad Wesley Smith's site) and Darkside strength (Henoch&Brown's site).
That way you can recover sufficiently to re-draw a bracing breath to do the next rep without destabilising your spine.
You have two choices:
1) to plough on and build conditioning (in conjunction with the breathing techniques); or
2) to retest your maxes (or rebase them to an e1RM based on one of your amrap sets) and use them to get your TM for the next cycle.
Eventually, if you go with 1) you'll catch up though, with the advantage that you've built an f-tonne of work capacity and have a more effective brace.
I'm a hypocrite because I don't like doing high rep sets myself, though... however, when I do have to do them I do each rep as basically a single and re-breath and rebrace between each rep. I find that this way, I practice my set up multiple times per set and each rep looks like the last - I also don't get puffed out as much (which can denigrate form all on it's own)0 -
@jemhh how is AMRAP different from setting a PR? This was why I asked if I should bump up my training max as well. That way I can still set PR but not have to do as many reps (keep it under 10). For example, per the program, my PR for squat is 340 (245x11reps). In order to hit a new PR next week, I'll have to do 260x10 which will pretty much be AMRAP because of my breathing LOL.
@McCloud33, I base my PR on the weight I'm lifting, not a projected 1RM. I would do 260 in a vacuum (as in, not trying to beat anything.) I like to pyramid back down so at a certain point that third set at 260 would be my first set and when I pyramid back down on that day I'd try to do my prior reps +1. But if I just wasn't feeling it on that day, I wouldn't be upset because, overall, I'd know that my overall strength was increasing. (Of course, this is all happening in a magical fantasy land where I'd ever be squatting that kind of weight.)0 -
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As Many Rounds As Possible (AMRAP) means you complete a circuit as many times as you can within a given time frame. It may also mean As Many Reps As Possible. PR is when you achieve a personal record on a lift. You could set a PR on an AMRAP but I generally think of a PR as a new One Rep Max (1RM).
@_Mistah_J My understanding of the way the 5/3/1 program works, you're using "calculated" 1RM so that you have the possibility of setting new PR every time you lift, and it makes it easier to compare one workout to the next since the weights/reps are constantly undulating. So I can compare this weeks 245lb squat to next weeks 260lb squat and both of those to when I started with a 215lb squat.
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Right, but I don't think I've ever heard of doing AMRAP in a lifting routine. Usually AMRAP is used in CrossFit.
He's doing it right. 5/3/1 calls for an AMRAP set as the final set for the main lift each workout. There are some variations on that with some of the newer iterations that came out with Beyond 5/3/1, but at the core you are doing an AMRAP set every session.0 -
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that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?
Kind of all of them...cycle 1 I did 215x10, 230x10 and 240x10 - cycle 2 was 225x13, 240x11, 250x10 and now on cycle 3 I've done 230x10 and 245x11. I actually like the higher reps, it's just a matter of the breathing. But if it's going to be a matter of me passing out, I'd rather do less at a heavier weight.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
I just feel like I still have to brace my core even while standing with the weight at the top, so it's hard to really take that deep breath while being tense...0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?
Kind of all of them...cycle 1 I did 215x10, 230x10 and 240x10 - cycle 2 was 225x13, 240x11, 250x10 and now on cycle 3 I've done 230x10 and 245x11. I actually like the higher reps, it's just a matter of the breathing. But if it's going to be a matter of me passing out, I'd rather do less at a heavier weight.
What variation of 5/3/1 are you doing? I'm rusty on my Beyond variations, but the core 5/3/1 is to do 5/5/5+, 3/3/3+, and 5/3/1+. Are you doing AMRAP sets for each set, each day?0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
I just feel like I still have to brace my core even while standing with the weight at the top, so it's hard to really take that deep breath while being tense...
Hmm, that's odd. I do rack stands occasionally with way more weight that I can squat and don't have a problem with breathing.
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piperdown44 wrote: »
that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?
Kind of all of them...cycle 1 I did 215x10, 230x10 and 240x10 - cycle 2 was 225x13, 240x11, 250x10 and now on cycle 3 I've done 230x10 and 245x11. I actually like the higher reps, it's just a matter of the breathing. But if it's going to be a matter of me passing out, I'd rather do less at a heavier weight.
What variation of 5/3/1 are you doing? I'm rusty on my Beyond variations, but the core 5/3/1 is to do 5/5/5+, 3/3/3+, and 5/3/1+. Are you doing AMRAP sets for each set, each day?
No, AMRAP only on the last set...so the 5+, 3+ and 1+. I'm doing the boring but big accessory lifts too, but alternating the upper lower so that I'm doing every lift twice a week.
M-5/3/1 Bench, 5x10 OHP
T-5/3/1 Squat, 5x10 DL
R-5/3/1 OHP, 5x10 Bench
F-5/3/1 DL, 5x10 Squat0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?
Kind of all of them...cycle 1 I did 215x10, 230x10 and 240x10 - cycle 2 was 225x13, 240x11, 250x10 and now on cycle 3 I've done 230x10 and 245x11. I actually like the higher reps, it's just a matter of the breathing. But if it's going to be a matter of me passing out, I'd rather do less at a heavier weight.
What variation of 5/3/1 are you doing? I'm rusty on my Beyond variations, but the core 5/3/1 is to do 5/5/5+, 3/3/3+, and 5/3/1+. Are you doing AMRAP sets for each set, each day?
I think those are his final set numbers.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »
that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
If I was you I'd re-evaluate my training % for squats.
What week (5 or 3 or 1) are you going over 10 reps?
Kind of all of them...cycle 1 I did 215x10, 230x10 and 240x10 - cycle 2 was 225x13, 240x11, 250x10 and now on cycle 3 I've done 230x10 and 245x11. I actually like the higher reps, it's just a matter of the breathing. But if it's going to be a matter of me passing out, I'd rather do less at a heavier weight.
Uh,, yep, you need to re-evaluate your training %.
Not saying mine is correct but I usually shoot for the following reps on the sets:
5+ at least 8 if not 9 or 10 (those last ones are tough)
3+ at least 6 or 7
1+ I go all out. I make sure I hit at least a minimum of 4 and also realize that if I don't hit 6 then the blackironbeast calculator is not going to move the end weights up but the middle weights get an adjustment higher.
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piperdown44 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »that's correct. You need to hold the air in your belly to brace your core.
I just feel like I still have to brace my core even while standing with the weight at the top, so it's hard to really take that deep breath while being tense...
Hmm, that's odd. I do rack stands occasionally with way more weight that I can squat and don't have a problem with breathing.
I'll just have to try some rack stands and just focus on breathing then. Maybe it's the perception that I need to be tight at the top and that I really don't have to be as tight as I am.0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgTL5G1ibIo
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