Free weights v machines

This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!
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Replies

  • juggernaut1974
    juggernaut1974 Posts: 6,212 Member
    You can bulk using machines

    They just tend to be not quite as good a method, as they usually isolate specific muscles and take the load off a lot of the complementary muscles you'd engage doing free weight compound lifts.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    edited January 2016
    free weights are superior

    but if using machines gets you there it's better than nothing

    free weights are more natural, involves your core and more muscles than a machine weight eg squat rack vs smith machine, I'd actually wait for the rack to come free

    you bulk with adequate calories, protein and progressive training .. I'm sure you can do it on machines but free weights rule IMHO
  • joepratt503
    joepratt503 Posts: 191 Member
    edited January 2016
    Machines are just fine...they do isolate a bit more but that's not a bad thing depending on your goals. You can absolutely gain lean muscle using machines (which is what I assume you mean by "bulk").
  • ForecasterJason
    ForecasterJason Posts: 2,577 Member
    I can say it is definitely possible to gain muscle using machines, as I have done that.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    What's lean muscle as opposed to muscle then?
  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

    I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!

    As I've stated from a similar thread.

    It's true that your program should ultimately use free weights as the underlying foundation, weight machines most definitely have their place as well. Both tools are useful in your overall program and serve their own unique functions.

    Free weights can be used for a lot of your basic core movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, chins and overhead presses, while machines can help you perform movements that are more difficult (or impossible) to duplicate using standard free weights, such as pulldowns, leg presses, machine calf raises, pressdowns and other cable exercises.

    You certainly don't NEED machines in order to get an effective and well rounded workout, but if you do have access to them then there are several machine exercises that are definitely worth utilizing.

    When it all comes down to it, any exercises that places your muscles under tension and allows for progressive overload over time is going to produce muscle growth. So yes, machines are effective for building muscle.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an issue of "free weights or machines", and your overall routine will contain a mixture of both. Don't make the error of thinking that free weights are somehow vastly superior to machines or that your routine should contain free weight exercises only, as both tools are useful in the overall picture.
  • Packerjohn
    Packerjohn Posts: 4,855 Member
    elite_nal wrote: »
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

    I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!

    As I've stated from a similar thread.

    It's true that your program should ultimately use free weights as the underlying foundation, weight machines most definitely have their place as well. Both tools are useful in your overall program and serve their own unique functions.

    Free weights can be used for a lot of your basic core movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, chins and overhead presses, while machines can help you perform movements that are more difficult (or impossible) to duplicate using standard free weights, such as pulldowns, leg presses, machine calf raises, pressdowns and other cable exercises.

    You certainly don't NEED machines in order to get an effective and well rounded workout, but if you do have access to them then there are several machine exercises that are definitely worth utilizing.

    When it all comes down to it, any exercises that places your muscles under tension and allows for progressive overload over time is going to produce muscle growth. So yes, machines are effective for building muscle.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an issue of "free weights or machines", and your overall routine will contain a mixture of both. Don't make the error of thinking that free weights are somehow vastly superior to machines or that your routine should contain free weight exercises only, as both tools are useful in the overall picture.

    Nice post. Both can be effective. If you Google images of the weight rooms of pro and college teams you will notice they have more free weights than machines. Since these organizations have (for all intents and purposes) unlimited resources to equip the weight rooms you would expect them to use the most effective implements.
  • tillerstouch
    tillerstouch Posts: 608 Member
    It's like everyone is saying machines will isolate muscles. For instance a back machine just works your back but a deadlifts works your back, legs and engages your core. Your workout plan should mostly be free weights if you're trying to bulk but I think including some machines isn't a bad idea to get a nice extra burn on a muscle.
  • AdrianChr92
    AdrianChr92 Posts: 567 Member
    Free weights train more muscles.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    elite_nal wrote: »
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

    I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!

    As I've stated from a similar thread.

    It's true that your program should ultimately use free weights as the underlying foundation, weight machines most definitely have their place as well. Both tools are useful in your overall program and serve their own unique functions.

    Free weights can be used for a lot of your basic core movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, chins and overhead presses, while machines can help you perform movements that are more difficult (or impossible) to duplicate using standard free weights, such as pulldowns, leg presses, machine calf raises, pressdowns and other cable exercises.

    You certainly don't NEED machines in order to get an effective and well rounded workout, but if you do have access to them then there are several machine exercises that are definitely worth utilizing.

    When it all comes down to it, any exercises that places your muscles under tension and allows for progressive overload over time is going to produce muscle growth. So yes, machines are effective for building muscle.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an issue of "free weights or machines", and your overall routine will contain a mixture of both. Don't make the error of thinking that free weights are somehow vastly superior to machines or that your routine should contain free weight exercises only, as both tools are useful in the overall picture.

    This..

    I would say that your routine should be built around compound movements (free weights) and then your accessory movements can be on some machines like lat pull down, cable row, etc.
  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    Packerjohn wrote: »
    elite_nal wrote: »
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

    I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!

    As I've stated from a similar thread.

    It's true that your program should ultimately use free weights as the underlying foundation, weight machines most definitely have their place as well. Both tools are useful in your overall program and serve their own unique functions.

    Free weights can be used for a lot of your basic core movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, chins and overhead presses, while machines can help you perform movements that are more difficult (or impossible) to duplicate using standard free weights, such as pulldowns, leg presses, machine calf raises, pressdowns and other cable exercises.

    You certainly don't NEED machines in order to get an effective and well rounded workout, but if you do have access to them then there are several machine exercises that are definitely worth utilizing.

    When it all comes down to it, any exercises that places your muscles under tension and allows for progressive overload over time is going to produce muscle growth. So yes, machines are effective for building muscle.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an issue of "free weights or machines", and your overall routine will contain a mixture of both. Don't make the error of thinking that free weights are somehow vastly superior to machines or that your routine should contain free weight exercises only, as both tools are useful in the overall picture.

    Nice post. Both can be effective. If you Google images of the weight rooms of pro and college teams you will notice they have more free weights than machines. Since these organizations have (for all intents and purposes) unlimited resources to equip the weight rooms you would expect them to use the most effective implements.

    Also, the main reason why free weights are generally recommended over machines is because they allow you to move through a more natural range of motion. This forces you to recruit more stabilizer muscles and it also reduces your chances of injury since your body is not stuck on a fixed plane of movement.

    While this certainly does have some application, it really depends on what type of machine movement you’re dealing with. For example, a smith machine does keep you on a fixed plane of movement, as does hammer strength equipment and certain other machines. However, there are plenty of other cable based machine movements that allow for plenty of freedom throughout the entire range of motion.

    For example (as I've said earlier), lat pulldowns, tricep pushdowns and cable side laterals are all fantastic machine exercises that properly hit the targeted muscles while allowing you to move naturally.

    In addition, there are plenty of effective machine movements that cannot be duplicated (at least not easily) using basic free weights. Leg presses, leg curls, certain calf movements, v-bar pulldowns, cable crossovers (using a high to low angle) and face pulls are just a few examples.

    The bottom line here is that muscle growth is an adaptive response to stress as the muscles are placed under progressively greater levels of tension over time.

    For that reason, ANY tool, whether it’s a barbell, dumbbell, cable or machine, will be an effective means of producing muscle hypertrophy.

    If I was forced to choose one over the other, I would certainly choose free weights, but this hardly has any practical application to your program, and these types of bodybuilding issues are rarely ever black and white.
  • Sued0nim
    Sued0nim Posts: 17,456 Member
    I like this thread *learning*
  • krispon3
    krispon3 Posts: 1 Member
    With Free weights, I always have fear of not doing right and getting injured in the back or other sensitive muscles.WIth machines, it is isolated ,targeted and more safe.

    Am I right on this?
  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    elite_nal wrote: »
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    This may be covered elsewhere, couldn't find much by searching though.

    I use both machines + free weights. I've heard you can't bulk using machines. Is that true? I'm just starting my journey and want to get started on the right foot!

    As I've stated from a similar thread.

    It's true that your program should ultimately use free weights as the underlying foundation, weight machines most definitely have their place as well. Both tools are useful in your overall program and serve their own unique functions.

    Free weights can be used for a lot of your basic core movements such as squats, deadlifts, bench presses, rows, chins and overhead presses, while machines can help you perform movements that are more difficult (or impossible) to duplicate using standard free weights, such as pulldowns, leg presses, machine calf raises, pressdowns and other cable exercises.

    You certainly don't NEED machines in order to get an effective and well rounded workout, but if you do have access to them then there are several machine exercises that are definitely worth utilizing.

    When it all comes down to it, any exercises that places your muscles under tension and allows for progressive overload over time is going to produce muscle growth. So yes, machines are effective for building muscle.

    Again, it doesn't have to be an issue of "free weights or machines", and your overall routine will contain a mixture of both. Don't make the error of thinking that free weights are somehow vastly superior to machines or that your routine should contain free weight exercises only, as both tools are useful in the overall picture.

    This..

    I would say that your routine should be built around compound movements (free weights) and then your accessory movements can be on some machines like lat pull down, cable row, etc.

    Yep, a mixture of both is usually best with freeweights making up the majority.
  • pinggolfer96
    pinggolfer96 Posts: 2,248 Member
    Free weights for sure IMO. A lot more compound exercises. Also more convenient as you can do multiple exercises with a single bar and weights
  • kjm3579
    kjm3579 Posts: 3,974 Member
    If you exercise using a machine, you use just the muscles needed for that individual move -- doing the same thing with free weights you will need to use more muscles to balance and control the weights that the machine is doing for you -- using free weights is therefore considered superior as if will build a group of muscles with each lift.
  • jnimeskern
    jnimeskern Posts: 8 Member
    edited January 2016
    Thanks for the info, everyone. I need to break free of my fear of "free weights"

    My issue with free weights, is probably just lack of experience. Machines force me to do one obvious range of motion, do that many sets, and move on to the next.

    Free weights, all I can think to do is curls, squats, shoulder rolls and benching. I know there are many others, but again lack of experience. Probably 75% machine, 25% weights time spent in the gym. Free weights seem to be "heavier" as well- and is probably because you have assistance in motion (straight up and down/ side to side)
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,809 Member
    To me the single most important factor is the person rather than the equipment - I see good/bad/pointless routines using free weights/machines/bodyweight or a combination of all three.

    I tend to see as much (if not more) isolation work with free weights!

    A gem seen this week - single arm wrist curls with a dumbbell by a complete beginner.
    But then you also see a compound exercise machine (lat pull down for example) being abused too.

    Any equipment is only as good (or bad) as the person using it.



  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    jnimeskern wrote: »
    Thanks for the info, everyone. I need to break free of my fear of "free weights"

    My issue with free weights, is probably just lack of experience. Machines force me to do one obvious range of motion, do that many sets, and move on to the next.

    Free weights, all I can think to do is curls, squats, shoulder rolls and benching. I know there are many others, but again lack of experience. Probably 75% machine, 25% weights time spent in the gym. Free weights seem to be "heavier" as well- and is probably because you have assistance in motion (straight up and down/ side to side)

    Any machine that provides tension on the muscle and allows you to get stronger will lead to hypertrophy. Machines are a great tool but overall free weights can't be beat. Use a mixture of both.


  • Warchortle
    Warchortle Posts: 2,197 Member
    edited January 2016
    I have *kitten* V02 levels so I can't get enough hypertrophy with just free weights like bench, squat, deadlift. I need machine work to hit that extra volume. Machines can be dangerous if you're not correctly adjusting it to your body. I found a lot of pressing machines can be taxing on shoulders if you're not setting it up correctly.

    Machines are a good way to feel comfortable starting out, but transitioning to free weights will overall be more functional. I had surgery on my knees and my mobility only got better when I added more squatting over leg press.
  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    kjm3579 wrote: »
    If you exercise using a machine, you use just the muscles needed for that individual move -- doing the same thing with free weights you will need to use more muscles to balance and control the weights that the machine is doing for you -- using free weights is therefore considered superior as if will build a group of muscles with each lift.


    The automatic answer you’ll usually hear is the “free weights vs. machines” debate is that free weights are superior and should form the underlying basis of your overall workout program.

    While free weights typically will make up the majority of your training routine, it’s not exactly accurate to say that one tool is “better” than the other, as they both have their own unique advantages and uses.

    As I said earlier, the main reason why free weights are generally recommended over machines is because they allow you to move through a more natural range of motion. Therefore reducing the risk your chances of injury since your body is not stuck on a fixed plane of movement.
  • Warchortle
    Warchortle Posts: 2,197 Member
    elite_nal wrote: »
    kjm3579 wrote: »
    If you exercise using a machine, you use just the muscles needed for that individual move -- doing the same thing with free weights you will need to use more muscles to balance and control the weights that the machine is doing for you -- using free weights is therefore considered superior as if will build a group of muscles with each lift.


    The automatic answer you’ll usually hear is the “free weights vs. machines” debate is that free weights are superior and should form the underlying basis of your overall workout program.

    While free weights typically will make up the majority of your training routine, it’s not exactly accurate to say that one tool is “better” than the other, as they both have their own unique advantages and uses.

    As I said earlier, the main reason why free weights are generally recommended over machines is because they allow you to move through a more natural range of motion. Therefore reducing the risk your chances of injury since your body is not stuck on a fixed plane of movement.

    I died when some guy at the gym was saying that smith machine squats were safer for the knees than free weight when he was giving a gym tour to his friends.

    My face was like T_T
  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    krispon3 wrote: »
    With Free weights, I always have fear of not doing right and getting injured in the back or other sensitive muscles.WIth machines, it is isolated ,targeted and more safe.

    Am I right on this?

    You can most definitely hurt yourself just as much on a machine. I think I remember reading that free weights get less injuries than machines even, but don't quote me on that.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    krispon3 wrote: »
    With Free weights, I always have fear of not doing right and getting injured in the back or other sensitive muscles.WIth machines, it is isolated ,targeted and more safe.

    Am I right on this?

    You can most definitely hurt yourself just as much on a machine. I think I remember reading that free weights get less injuries than machines even, but don't quote me on that.

    I would believe that as many machines "force" a specific path which might not align to your own physiology.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,427 MFP Moderator
    Personally, there are benefits to both. And at some point, you will run into limitations with free weights due to grip strength or lack of equipment.
  • sjohnson__1
    sjohnson__1 Posts: 405 Member
    Absolutely benefits to both. If properly trained how, I would suggest using compound movements with free weights, learning other isolation movements with free weights, and also incorporating some machine isolation movements like the quad extension, hamstring curl, and preacher curl machines. If you run into issues where a machine doesn't align with your physiology, research similar movements using free weights and try that route. Always practice good form and don't do things that cause a lot of pain. There's always an alternative movement, I promise.
  • Wheelhouse15
    Wheelhouse15 Posts: 5,575 Member
    There are some great posts by very knowledgable lifters here. As mentioned both will work but the biggest benefit of free weights is that you create a much larger systemic load than possible with machines and these help develop deep core as well as assisting stabalizer muscles and skeletal integrety. As far as bulking up the primary movers I don't believe there is any solid evidence that one actually works more than the other when used in conjunction with a proper training program. I've certainly seen body builders who use machines primarily and sport impressive builds.

    I'm a free weight enthusist because of all the great benefits and versitility of free weights in all forms (barbells, dumbells, kettlebells etc) but sometimes I do like using machines and find they give me ways to hit certain muscle groups in a way that is difficult using free weights. Cables in particular are effective at keeping maximum resistance thoughout an exercise, and this often is not the case with their free weight counter parts (e.g. curls).

    In the end you need to decide what you are looking for in a training program and then you can determine the proper tools you need to achieve your goals.
  • jmule24
    jmule24 Posts: 1,382 Member
    There are some great posts by very knowledgable lifters here. As mentioned both will work but the biggest benefit of free weights is that you create a much larger systemic load than possible with machines and these help develop deep core as well as assisting stabalizer muscles and skeletal integrety. As far as bulking up the primary movers I don't believe there is any solid evidence that one actually works more than the other when used in conjunction with a proper training program. I've certainly seen body builders who use machines primarily and sport impressive builds.

    I'm a free weight enthusist because of all the great benefits and versitility of free weights in all forms (barbells, dumbells, kettlebells etc) but sometimes I do like using machines and find they give me ways to hit certain muscle groups in a way that is difficult using free weights. Cables in particular are effective at keeping maximum resistance thoughout an exercise, and this often is not the case with their free weight counter parts (e.g. curls).

    In the end you need to decide what you are looking for in a training program and then you can determine the proper tools you need to achieve your goals.

    Great post as always!!!! Co-sign +100
  • elite_nal
    elite_nal Posts: 127 Member
    krispon3 wrote: »
    With Free weights, I always have fear of not doing right and getting injured in the back or other sensitive muscles.WIth machines, it is isolated ,targeted and more safe.

    Am I right on this?

    Make sure to learn and practice the proper form for all of your exercises first before applying any significant weight or intensity.

  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    I use free weights for my primary work and machines for isolation and other assistance work as applicable. Free weights really should be the foundation of your routine.