Gaining muscle + defining abs
gymrat04mf
Posts: 51 Member
Currently I'm at 115 lbs and ~19% BF which for a woman is between the "fitness" and "athlete" categories. I have some ab definition and when I flex I can definitely feel my abs and they are rock hard, but I feel like the definition isn't as apparent as it has been in the past. I don't want a chiseled six pack, but I want significant more definition and separation in my abs. My goal weight is also 120-125 lbs though; I'd like to add some more muscle mass all over, although I do like the way I look now too.
I'm doing a ~250 cal surplus right now because I really don't want to gain much fat. I really don't like the idea of yo-yoing between bulking and cutting all the time. I can see how that's a good choice for a bodybuilder but I'm looking to get to my best self and be able to look like that year-round. So I'm thinking a recomp might be the way to go for me.
If I continued what I'm doing now, would I be able to get more ab definition or is that not probable with a constant slight surplus? Do you think I'm better off just doing a recomp with some cardio once a week or so in addition to about 4 days of weightlifting?
I'm doing a ~250 cal surplus right now because I really don't want to gain much fat. I really don't like the idea of yo-yoing between bulking and cutting all the time. I can see how that's a good choice for a bodybuilder but I'm looking to get to my best self and be able to look like that year-round. So I'm thinking a recomp might be the way to go for me.
If I continued what I'm doing now, would I be able to get more ab definition or is that not probable with a constant slight surplus? Do you think I'm better off just doing a recomp with some cardio once a week or so in addition to about 4 days of weightlifting?
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Replies
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I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.0
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*Ab definition I mean... Sorry0
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gymrat04mf wrote: »If I continued what I'm doing now, would I be able to get more ab definition or is that not probable with a constant slight surplus? Do you think I'm better off just doing a recomp with some cardio once a week or so in addition to about 4 days of weightlifting?
Definition is the scraping of layers of fat. Now, you can certainly work on your abdominal strength and build a more dense layer of muscle during your surplus, but in order to define the abs, you would have to cut fat.gymrat04mf wrote: »Currently I'm at 115 lbs and ~19% BF which for a woman is between the "fitness" and "athlete" categories. I have some ab definition and when I flex I can definitely feel my abs and they are rock hard, but I feel like the definition isn't as apparent as it has been in the past. I don't want a chiseled six pack, but I want significant more definition and separation in my abs. My goal weight is also 120-125 lbs though; I'd like to add some more muscle mass all over, although I do like the way I look now too.
I'm doing a ~250 cal surplus right now because I really don't want to gain much fat. I really don't like the idea of yo-yoing between bulking and cutting all the time. I can see how that's a good choice for a bodybuilder but I'm looking to get to my best self and be able to look like that year-round. So I'm thinking a recomp might be the way to go for me.
With a goal weight of 5-10 more lbs, and desire to add muscle I would suggest you continue your slight surplus. However, it's nearly impossible to put on that much lean muscle in a short span of time. If you weighed your desire to add muscle and sit at 120-125lbs vs. your desire to have ab definition, which would you choose? That's the difference between bulking and cutting or recomping right now.
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I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
If by eating clean you mean at a caloric deficit to scrape away fat, then yes. But, eating whole foods isn't a prerequisite to getting abs. I did it eating poptarts and ice cream almost daily. The key was training, good nutrition, and a caloric deficit... but this is the gaining thread.. so I'm gonna go eat some more.0 -
No, sorry, as @sjohnson__1 pointed out, you need to lower you BF% rather than raise it to gain more definition. You'll need to be around 15% for what you want as far as abs so bulk then cut is probably your only option unless you want to try the slow recomp route.0
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OP - you will not get more ab definition from bulking. Yes, you will gain more muscle which will show when you cut, but to get to visible abs you will need to get to a lower body fat as @Wheelhouse15 pointed out.
I would suggest a small deficit + structured lifting program + strict logging + hitting micros and macros...0 -
I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
clean eating has absolutely noting to do with ab definition0 -
I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.0
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tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
I was going to say it's mostly genetic so I'm glad you pointed that out. Boxing is great core work, and it can help slightly but abs, particularly in women, are not muscles that grow much. Even female physique competators, the ones just below the bodybuilders, don't tend to have very large abs.
Out of curiosity, where was your BF% when you were able to see your abs? 17 or18%
Side note: being older actually allows you to raise the BF% a bit as well since some of that increase is marbled within the muscle and added to organs.0 -
Eating clean is not a definitive way to visible abs. Caloric deficit through tracking calories/macros along with consistent weight lifting is what works and always has.0
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
I was going to say it's mostly genetic so I'm glad you pointed that out. Boxing is great core work, and it can help slightly but abs, particularly in women, are not muscles that grow much. Even female physique competators, the ones just below the bodybuilders, don't tend to have very large abs.
Out of curiosity, where was your BF% when you were able to see your abs? 17 or18%
Side note: being older actually allows you to raise the BF% a bit as well since some of that increase is marbled within the muscle and added to organs.
I think we figured I was around 18% in this pic... again, most of it is in my thighs and butt.
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MireyGal76 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
I was going to say it's mostly genetic so I'm glad you pointed that out. Boxing is great core work, and it can help slightly but abs, particularly in women, are not muscles that grow much. Even female physique competators, the ones just below the bodybuilders, don't tend to have very large abs.
Out of curiosity, where was your BF% when you were able to see your abs? 17 or18%
Side note: being older actually allows you to raise the BF% a bit as well since some of that increase is marbled within the muscle and added to organs.
I think we figured I was around 18% in this pic... again, most of it is in my thighs and butt.
I wouldn't be surprised it you were a tad leaner than you thought. Definitely lean, excellent work!0 -
Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
I was going to say it's mostly genetic so I'm glad you pointed that out. Boxing is great core work, and it can help slightly but abs, particularly in women, are not muscles that grow much. Even female physique competators, the ones just below the bodybuilders, don't tend to have very large abs.
Out of curiosity, where was your BF% when you were able to see your abs? 17 or18%
Side note: being older actually allows you to raise the BF% a bit as well since some of that increase is marbled within the muscle and added to organs.
I think we figured I was around 18% in this pic... again, most of it is in my thighs and butt.
I wouldn't be surprised it you were a tad leaner than you thought. Definitely lean, excellent work!
It's hard to tell... because I'm 6'1 and was about 168lb, the online calculators were pegging me at 23%... I KNEW I wasn't that much, but was too cheap to get an assessment done.
Thanks! I'm now at goal weight (165), but no longer at goal body. :sad:
Stupid injuries :grumble:0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
I was going to say it's mostly genetic so I'm glad you pointed that out. Boxing is great core work, and it can help slightly but abs, particularly in women, are not muscles that grow much. Even female physique competators, the ones just below the bodybuilders, don't tend to have very large abs.
Out of curiosity, where was your BF% when you were able to see your abs? 17 or18%
Side note: being older actually allows you to raise the BF% a bit as well since some of that increase is marbled within the muscle and added to organs.
I think we figured I was around 18% in this pic... again, most of it is in my thighs and butt.
I wouldn't be surprised it you were a tad leaner than you thought. Definitely lean, excellent work!
It's hard to tell... because I'm 6'1 and was about 168lb, the online calculators were pegging me at 23%... I KNEW I wasn't that much, but was too cheap to get an assessment done.
Thanks! I'm now at goal weight (165), but no longer at goal body. :sad:
Stupid injuries :grumble:
Tell me about it! In the past year I've had to rehab a forearm tendonitis, teres major pull, shoulder that's totally shot, both hips, a pec pull, calf cramping issues, and I know I'm forgetting something. Yeah, getting older sucks!0 -
gymrat04mf wrote: »Currently I'm at 115 lbs and ~19% BF which for a woman is between the "fitness" and "athlete" categories. I have some ab definition and when I flex I can definitely feel my abs and they are rock hard, but I feel like the definition isn't as apparent as it has been in the past. I don't want a chiseled six pack, but I want significant more definition and separation in my abs. My goal weight is also 120-125 lbs though; I'd like to add some more muscle mass all over, although I do like the way I look now too.
I'm doing a ~250 cal surplus right now because I really don't want to gain much fat. I really don't like the idea of yo-yoing between bulking and cutting all the time. I can see how that's a good choice for a bodybuilder but I'm looking to get to my best self and be able to look like that year-round. So I'm thinking a recomp might be the way to go for me.
If I continued what I'm doing now, would I be able to get more ab definition or is that not probable with a constant slight surplus? Do you think I'm better off just doing a recomp with some cardio once a week or so in addition to about 4 days of weightlifting?
Well, always keep in mind that any time you try to add a significant amount of muscle to your body, you're always going to gain some body fat along with it. This is just an inevitable result of remaining in a calorie surplus over time and there's really no way around it.
If you want to gain more muscle mass, just continue bulking until you reach a level of muscular development that you’re happy with, or until your body fat levels reach a level that you aren’t comfortable with and want to reduce.
Just make sure that you stay in your bulking phase long enough to truly make some solid, measurable progress first before shifting gears.
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I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
It doesn’t matter how “healthy” or how “clean” you eat – go overboard on total calories and you aren’t going to lose an ounce of fat, period. Bodybuilding is just a numbers game.
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sjohnson__1 wrote: »I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
If by eating clean you mean at a caloric deficit to scrape away fat, then yes. But, eating whole foods isn't a prerequisite to getting abs. I did it eating poptarts and ice cream almost daily. The key was training, good nutrition, and a caloric deficit... but this is the gaining thread.. so I'm gonna go eat some more.
Wait wait wait.......there is no way you had good nutrition if you were eating pop-tarts and ice cream daily! There is also no wayyyy you were able to stay in a caloric deficit by eating those type of foods either...............
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sjohnson__1 wrote: »I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
If by eating clean you mean at a caloric deficit to scrape away fat, then yes. But, eating whole foods isn't a prerequisite to getting abs. I did it eating poptarts and ice cream almost daily. The key was training, good nutrition, and a caloric deficit... but this is the gaining thread.. so I'm gonna go eat some more.
Wait wait wait.......there is no way you had good nutrition if you were eating pop-tarts and ice cream daily! There is also no wayyyy you were able to stay in a caloric deficit by eating those type of foods either...............
Dude...they were clean poptarts and whole ice cream.
Duh...0 -
To the OP.
What @sjohnson__1 and @Wheelhouse15 have shared is spot on. Also, women don't build muscle nearly as efficiently as males. Because hormones and all that science stuff and what not.0 -
To the OP.
What @sjohnson__1 and @Wheelhouse15 have shared is spot on. Also, women don't build muscle nearly as efficiently as males. Because hormones and all that science stuff and what not.
DISCRIMINATION! I DEMAND EQUALITY!
Stupid science stuff. :grumble:0 -
That's a very important point you mentioned about muscle mass and ab visibility. While having low body fat is key to getting visible abs, one also needs to have enough muscle for them to be very defined.MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
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MireyGal76 wrote: »To the OP.
What @sjohnson__1 and @Wheelhouse15 have shared is spot on. Also, women don't build muscle nearly as efficiently as males. Because hormones and all that science stuff and what not.
DISCRIMINATION! I DEMAND EQUALITY!
Stupid science stuff. :grumble:
I know what you mean, I keep asking when I'm going to be entitled to maternity leave!
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »To the OP.
What @sjohnson__1 and @Wheelhouse15 have shared is spot on. Also, women don't build muscle nearly as efficiently as males. Because hormones and all that science stuff and what not.
DISCRIMINATION! I DEMAND EQUALITY!
Stupid science stuff. :grumble:
I know what you mean, I keep asking when I'm going to be entitled to maternity leave!
When you push a watermelon out a hole the size of a walnut...
Or... Since you don't have those parts.. Maybe drop a deuce the size of a cantaloupe... (and that's on the small side)
In Canada, we have paternity leave... The father can choose to stay home while the mom goes back to work.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
That's a very important point you mentioned about muscle mass and ab visibility. While having low body fat is key to getting visible abs, one also needs to have enough muscle for them to be very defined.MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
Correct, if you really want to maximize the visible definition of your abs, then yes, direct ab training will be necessary.
Big compound lifts like squats and deadlifts will not be enough to develop the rectus abdominus (the "six pack muscles") to their full potential as some people claim, and isolated exercises like weighted crunches, leg raises and planking variations will be necessary for that purpose.
Abs should be trained at the same frequency as all other muscle groups.
The abs are a muscle just like any other and they respond to training in the same basic way. For that reason, there's no need to train abs every day or 5 days a week like so many people do. For a typical natural trainee, this will generally mean an ab training frequency of 1-3 times per week, with twice per week being the general sweet spot I recommend to most people. The only situation where a higher ab training frequency would be necessary is if your abs are a specific weak point that you need to bring up (or what we call a lagging muscle group).
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One thing for ladies (and I guess men - equality and such) to keep in mind... if you are directly training and growing ab muscles, you may notice a lil (not a LOT) bit more thickness in your waist, particularly if you're strengthening obliques and such.
Planking is great because it helps strengthen the transverse abdominal muscle which is the deepest layer and wraps around the trunk (kinda like a corset)... It can kind of work like a corset, too, because the tighter muscles tend to tighten everything around it and can help "suck things in" (it also really helps with back issues).
When doing abs... don't just crunch til the cows come home... plank (front/side), crunch, do leg lifts, etc. Work ALL the abdominal muscles, not just the '6 pack ones'.
http://sportsmedicine.about.com/od/abdominalcorestrength1/a/NewCore.htm0 -
MireyGal76 wrote: »Wheelhouse15 wrote: »MireyGal76 wrote: »To the OP.
What @sjohnson__1 and @Wheelhouse15 have shared is spot on. Also, women don't build muscle nearly as efficiently as males. Because hormones and all that science stuff and what not.
DISCRIMINATION! I DEMAND EQUALITY!
Stupid science stuff. :grumble:
I know what you mean, I keep asking when I'm going to be entitled to maternity leave!
When you push a watermelon out a hole the size of a walnut...
Or... Since you don't have those parts.. Maybe drop a deuce the size of a cantaloupe... (and that's on the small side)
In Canada, we have paternity leave... The father can choose to stay home while the mom goes back to work.
Lol that's what my ex said. I am Canadian btw.0 -
sjohnson__1 wrote: »I think u should lift 5 days a week and on top of that cardio v twice a week. Nothing crazy. But a good sweat noon the less... You want more about definition?? How's Ur diet?? Because the only way I got my abs to get more chiseled was to eat super duper clean. Like 100% clean.
If by eating clean you mean at a caloric deficit to scrape away fat, then yes. But, eating whole foods isn't a prerequisite to getting abs. I did it eating poptarts and ice cream almost daily. The key was training, good nutrition, and a caloric deficit... but this is the gaining thread.. so I'm gonna go eat some more.
Wait wait wait.......there is no way you had good nutrition if you were eating pop-tarts and ice cream daily! There is also no wayyyy you were able to stay in a caloric deficit by eating those type of foods either...............
You're right. I couldn't do it.. I ate the entire carton of ice cream and the entire box of poptarts each time bc I decided since it wasn't clean and I had already cheated, might as well say f**k it.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
That's a very important point you mentioned about muscle mass and ab visibility. While having low body fat is key to getting visible abs, one also needs to have enough muscle for them to be very defined.MireyGal76 wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »I'd recomend continue with the surplus and work on building ab strength then once you're closer to the strength you want then do a cut to try to shed some body fat. If your abs are stronger they'll show through at higher body fat. Like many others have said though it'll be hard to put on 10 pounds and at the same time get more defined abs.
I agree with this. I didn't get as low as 15% bf and had visible abs. They were a result of boxing (which included a fair amount of planking, crunches and leg raises, as well as core strength needed to throw a solid punch). I've never eaten clean, but had pretty incredible abs. I've been injured for a while, so the ab definition is less now, but it's still there.
More muscle in that area will cause the abs to show through, and the rest is through diet and lowering body fat.
Note: it's also a genetic thing too - depending on where you store fat.
I've always been one to store fat in my hips, thighs and butt more than in my stomach... so my ab definition is easier to attain, even with a higher body fat. If your fat tends to hit your belly first, you'll need to work on the diet more than the muscle.
Yup, through change of exercise recently, in the past week I've started to be able to see my abs and i'm exactly the same body fat I was 3 months ago, eating in the same deficit.
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What is surplus???0
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