Any runners that cross train on an elliptical?

robertw486

Just trying to get some possible feedback here. I've done next to nothing for running in quite a few years. I never really enjoyed running much, then later had a back injury and was told to minimize impact exercises. As things heal up, I'm looking at getting into some endurance stuff and maybe a few 10ks or something, just to see where I can get my pace after all this time.

But for now, I'm minimizing the impacts as much as possible. I'm going to start running some, but build my cardio as much as possible on the elliptical and bike. I'm wondering if anyone that uses an elliptical has any good input on how the miles figures compare to your actual running miles paces. I think our elliptical shortens my natural stride, and at higher cadence just isn't as natural as a real run.

I'm also wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for low impact building of the calves. The elliptical doesn't seem to target those as much as a real running kick. I'm going to experiment with some foam pads to see if I can put more emphasis on the calves, but any other input would be good.

robertw486

..bump...

Anyone? Since the elliptical specific might make it harder, I know we have some runners that bike as well. Any input on heart rate/distance/etc that might help translate vs running effort?

acbraswell

I use the elliptical when the weather outside is nasty, or if I'm recovering from an injury or sickness. Like you said, it's not a great substitute because of the shorter stride, however to get a good cardio workout, I do some hard intervals. I also find I get more of a leg workout when I don't use the arm pieces and focus on balancing, that engages the leg muscles and calves.

nowornever250

Hi, I use the elliptical (legs only) when I am increasing time on my feet for half marathons as I have a back problem which gets worse with more impact. My physio said it is still a cardio workout and time spent on your feet - wouldn't replace a long run though.

RoxieDawn

I run outside, I also have a home Sole Treadmill and Sole Elliptical.

The elliptical miles are absolutely not the same as outdoor or treadmill miles. I can also say that my treadmill does not log the same miles as running outside either, but I guess that would take common sense to know that...LOL

Calorie burning is also not the same on the elliptical. I have work extra hard and travel longer on the elliptical.

I can say that I ran outdoors all summer up to the beginning of Nov (5 miles/day 6 days/week), plopped back on the elliptical for a change and I had muscles hurting that I did not know were not getting exercised.. this is still a mystery to me..

I got back on the treadmill for now..

brittyn3

It will never be a substitute or equal of running. Running and elliptical are two totally different things. Elliptical works different muscles than running does. If you're looking to cross train and give your running legs a break, it's a great tool, but it will in no way equate a run. Apples to Oranges. It is lower impact though. It will keep your fitness level up with your heart if you're working at the same intensity as when you run, but that's tough to do on a confined machine. Try running in a pool, great workout.

robertw486

targetnewyork wrote: »

Hi, I use the elliptical (legs only) when I am increasing time on my feet for half marathons as I have a back problem which gets worse with more impact. My physio said it is still a cardio workout and time spent on your feet - wouldn't replace a long run though.

@targetnewyork

Sounds like a similar situation to what I'm dealing with. I know the actual running pace will require real running and getting used to things again, I'm just trying to translate time/distance and build the cardio more without the impact, as well as target muscles unique to running.

gia07 wrote: »

I run outside, I also have a home Sole Treadmill and Sole Elliptical.

The elliptical miles are absolutely not the same as outdoor or treadmill miles. I can also say that my treadmill does not log the same miles as running outside either, but I guess that would take common sense to know that...LOL

Calorie burning is also not the same on the elliptical. I have work extra hard and travel longer on the elliptical.

I can say that I ran outdoors all summer up to the beginning of Nov (5 miles/day 6 days/week), plopped back on the elliptical for a change and I had muscles hurting that I did not know were not getting exercised.. this is still a mystery to me..

I got back on the treadmill for now..

@gia07

The comparison I'm looking for is cardio health. I completely understand that X minute miles won't translate directly to running pace. I'm just looking for a gauge. It sounds like for you the actual running miles we easier than the elliptical miles? I'm not sure if I'm reading that correctly, but that would be a good thing if so.

As for the muscle group thing elliptical vs actual running, completely agree. I think it's due to the unique motion of the elliptical, and it does expose some muscles that a person doesn't usually even notice. The one muscle group that it doesn't seem to work as hard (in my perception at least) is the calves. I've found that leaning forward and letting the heel of my foot lift does change that some, but don't know if I could comfortably do it long enough to really help the calve muscles develop more.

beckytcy

I like the stair climber for days that I don't run.

RoxieDawn

robertw486 wrote: »

targetnewyork wrote: »

Hi, I use the elliptical (legs only) when I am increasing time on my feet for half marathons as I have a back problem which gets worse with more impact. My physio said it is still a cardio workout and time spent on your feet - wouldn't replace a long run though.

@targetnewyork

Sounds like a similar situation to what I'm dealing with. I know the actual running pace will require real running and getting used to things again, I'm just trying to translate time/distance and build the cardio more without the impact, as well as target muscles unique to running.

gia07 wrote: »

I run outside, I also have a home Sole Treadmill and Sole Elliptical.

The elliptical miles are absolutely not the same as outdoor or treadmill miles. I can also say that my treadmill does not log the same miles as running outside either, but I guess that would take common sense to know that...LOL

Calorie burning is also not the same on the elliptical. I have work extra hard and travel longer on the elliptical.

I can say that I ran outdoors all summer up to the beginning of Nov (5 miles/day 6 days/week), plopped back on the elliptical for a change and I had muscles hurting that I did not know were not getting exercised.. this is still a mystery to me..

I got back on the treadmill for now..

@gia07

The comparison I'm looking for is cardio health. I completely understand that X minute miles won't translate directly to running pace. I'm just looking for a gauge. It sounds like for you the actual running miles we easier than the elliptical miles? I'm not sure if I'm reading that correctly, but that would be a good thing if so.

As for the muscle group thing elliptical vs actual running, completely agree. I think it's due to the unique motion of the elliptical, and it does expose some muscles that a person doesn't usually even notice. The one muscle group that it doesn't seem to work as hard (in my perception at least) is the calves. I've found that leaning forward and letting the heel of my foot lift does change that some, but don't know if I could comfortably do it long enough to really help the calve muscles develop more.

Cardio health can be achieved on the elliptical. I am not sure the guage you are looking for. Different machines do different things except heart rate can be achieved on this just like other cardio.

The elliptical is easier in different manners. But the exact same foot plant on the pedals, same exact movement for XXX period of time produces totally different results than lifting the legs, feet off the ground, etc..

Depending how much you give the machine is what you get from it. My feet also go to sleep on this and I hate that about it. And it is not my shoes being tied to loose or tight, it is just what I mentioned above.

I never get strong calves using the elliptical. I strength train as well so my calves have never been an issue. You might try doing some cross training (strength training) just on the areas such as your calves to keep them built and strong. You can even do calf raises standing or sitting down (and add weights).

MeanderingMammal

robertw486 wrote: »

JI'm also wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for low impact building of the calves. The elliptical doesn't seem to target those as much as a real running kick. I'm going to experiment with some foam pads to see if I can put more emphasis on the calves, but any other input would be good.

Can't comment on the elliptical but I'd veer towards hill climbing sessions on the turbo trainer for lower leg strength.

Base sessions also help with the CV capacity enough.

mattyc772014

I own a elliptical at home and use it often. Also have been running about a total of 9-10 miles a week. Now just cut back to 3-4 miles a week. I will use the elliptical to stay fit. March I have a 10K to run. Hate running in the cold so I will use the elliptical more until March. But will get back to running more to increase my stamina for the race early March.

I can tell you its a big difference. And the elliptical is far from natural as running. For me, I would double the miles on the elliptical for what I run. It is that much of a difference. What I suggest is take it slow with the running because of your past history. Maybe do a run walk. One minute on and off. Start with 1 mile and only increase 10% every week or 2. If you really want to run....Run. FYI get fitted for shoes a local running shoe store not a chain. Very important.

PunkRockChris

mattyc772014 wrote: »

I own a elliptical at home and use it often. Also have been running about a total of 9-10 miles a week. Now just cut back to 3-4 miles a week. I will use the elliptical to stay fit. March I have a 10K to run. Hate running in the cold so I will use the elliptical more until March. But will get back to running more to increase my stamina for the race early March.

I can tell you its a big difference. And the elliptical is far from natural as running. For me, I would double the miles on the elliptical for what I run. It is that much of a difference. What I suggest is take it slow with the running because of your past history. Maybe do a run walk. One minute on and off. Start with 1 mile and only increase 10% every week or 2. If you really want to run....Run. FYI get fitted for shoes a local running shoe store not a chain. Very important.

^^ Good advice right there. Listen to your body. If it hurts from running make sure you take some time off or get back to the lower impact elliptical or walk.

rileyes

robertw486 wrote: »

Just trying to get some possible feedback here. I've done next to nothing for running in quite a few years. I never really enjoyed running much, then later had a back injury and was told to minimize impact exercises. As things heal up, I'm looking at getting into some endurance stuff and maybe a few 10ks or something, just to see where I can get my pace after all this time.

But for now, I'm minimizing the impacts as much as possible. I'm going to start running some, but build my cardio as much as possible on the elliptical and bike. I'm wondering if anyone that uses an elliptical has any good input on how the miles figures compare to your actual running miles paces. I think our elliptical shortens my natural stride, and at higher cadence just isn't as natural as a real run.

I'm also wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for low impact building of the calves. The elliptical doesn't seem to target those as much as a real running kick. I'm going to experiment with some foam pads to see if I can put more emphasis on the calves, but any other input would be good.

In my experience, lots of repetition builds calves. NYers have great calves and they do a lot of walking. I work on mine with calf raises and bleacher runs.

Two miles on my elliptical takes longer than two miles of street running. That is steady state with the tension set high and me pushing hard. I am not an endurance runner--3 miles is about it.

20yearsyounger

robertw486 wrote: »

Just trying to get some possible feedback here. I've done next to nothing for running in quite a few years. I never really enjoyed running much, then later had a back injury and was told to minimize impact exercises. As things heal up, I'm looking at getting into some endurance stuff and maybe a few 10ks or something, just to see where I can get my pace after all this time.

But for now, I'm minimizing the impacts as much as possible. I'm going to start running some, but build my cardio as much as possible on the elliptical and bike. I'm wondering if anyone that uses an elliptical has any good input on how the miles figures compare to your actual running miles paces. I think our elliptical shortens my natural stride, and at higher cadence just isn't as natural as a real run.

I'm also wondering if anyone has any good suggestions for low impact building of the calves. The elliptical doesn't seem to target those as much as a real running kick. I'm going to experiment with some foam pads to see if I can put more emphasis on the calves, but any other input would be good.

The elliptical taught me how to run long distances with those short strides. i dont really compare the miles on an elliptical to the miles running. i use different machines and they have different readings. I do compare HR and calories burned to running though. For calves, you need an elliptical that allows you to adjust incline. It wont only hit the calves though but you can place a greater focus on them. This month I am challenging myself to burn more calories than I did last year. I cant do it all running, though I do plan to run at least 20 miles a week. The elliptical helps me to put up a bit more without the high impact. My only reason for not using the elliptical as much as I used to is because I havent heard of any elliptical races, I dont like having to stop after an hour, and I do like zoning out and running for as long as I want outside.

robertw486

Great input everyone....

@gia07 I was hoping someone with a similar machine could just give their input on output via HR/elliptical miles vs their actual running miles. I'm just trying to make sure my cardio base is solid so when I actually run I can focus more on stride, cadence, etc. I know my times will be down over years ago, but don't want to be a slug out there either! I already do some calf raises and such, I just never feel the calves engage much on the elliptical.

@MeanderingMammal No trainer at this time, thinking about getting one. But I do ride higher gearing with feet back on the pedals (no clips or cages) on many rides just to get the calves going more. No real hills in this area, but at times we get solid enough wind to get the same effect.

@mattyc772014 and @rileyes What types of elliptical machines do the two of you use? We have a Precor and it doesn't equate strides directly to miles. It factors ramp angles as well as resistance, and converts to estimated miles effort. I mix it up a lot on slower paces to work different muscles, but for pace work keep the ramp flatter and the resistance near what I feel is true running resistance rather than too cranked up.

@20yearsyounger I'm actually hoping the shorter elliptical stride might help me some. I tended to run a longer stride and slower cadence than was probably optimal for my size, so the increased cadence needed on the elliptical might actually help me in that regard.


I have been doing some steep incline work on the elliptical, as well as on occasion running the stairs at a local outdoor park. Between that and the work on the bike I'm hoping I can have my cardio base solid enough so that when I start doing more actual running my only real concerns are figuring out my stride and cadence in relation to heart rate and go from there.

Thanks again everyone.

rileyes

My elliptical is a LifeFitness X30.

20yearsyounger

The shorter stride did help me a lot - my shin splints and knee problems are non existence now. I do have a faster turnover because of it though so I know I can run faster, I just chose not to. I wouldnt look for an elliptical to fix calf problems though. As some one else mentioned you can stand on the edge of a step or something and do calf raises. Truthfully you get faster running by running so I dont know how good a measure of distance is. For me, If I run an hour, I do the elliptical for an hour. I also listened to music on the elliptical so when I transferred over to the road I had the same music, and followed the same beat so I know my cadence was the same.

20yearsyounger

One more thing, I do hands free only.

20yearsyounger

Ran 3 miles to the gym and got on a life fitness elliptical. Definitely fell more calves doing reverse mode but it's not the same isolation you would get from raises. Distance provided a little more than ii would expect running but I adjust resistance to keep level of effort the same. Will hop on the cybex arc trainer next. They have a setting that hits the calves more but I like setting that one for the high knees to loosen up my glutes etc. after that, taking a longer 7 mile way home.

robertw486

@rileyes and @20yearsyounger

Thanks for the extended info. I'm just hoping to minimize the time dealing with the impact of actual running, and make sure I can just focus on the adjustments rather than the cardio base.

I don't currently have an HRM type device designed for running, but do have a chest strap and small biking computer I could use to gauge HR and figure out where my cadence/stride puts me in regards to VO2max and/or HR ranges. I'm hoping that watching the HR vs output on the elliptical and bike make it a little easier to gauge where my pace should be when running.

Francl27

For calves - walking on the treadmill at a high incline (don't hold the rail either).

Otherwise, I went from elliptical to running and it was hard - it's really not the same at all. But I stopped running because I get better burns walking at a high incline anyway and that way I'm not damaging my joints (and never cared for running anyway). And I alternate that and spinning now.

Bottom line, you really don't have to run if you don't enjoy it...

20yearsyounger

robertw486 wrote: »

@rileyes and @20yearsyounger

Thanks for the extended info. I'm just hoping to minimize the time dealing with the impact of actual running, and make sure I can just focus on the adjustments rather than the cardio base.

I don't currently have an HRM type device designed for running, but do have a chest strap and small biking computer I could use to gauge HR and figure out where my cadence/stride puts me in regards to VO2max and/or HR ranges. I'm hoping that watching the HR vs output on the elliptical and bike make it a little easier to gauge where my pace should be when running.

I think it will help. In other forum posts you will find people talking about running at the point where it feels comfortable. The elliptical will help you with the steady state HR/VO2 max part. I found that running comfortably my HR is around 140BPM. I try to stay close to that on an elliptical as well. I have no problem with my breathing when running. The problem is with the impact on the body from the pounding. You can't compare that part at all to an elliptical.

To Francl27's point, yes you can actually get more of a calf impact on a high incline treadmill but I figured you had your thoughts on one piece of equipment and you liked the elliptical more.

BTW, on the ArcTrainer I didn't get as much distance at all. I have a Precor machine I will test tomorrow to see.

mattyc772014

@robertw486 I have an Octane Fitness. Love it. Has some really good preprograms. Comes with a chest monitor that is fairly accurate. My profile has a pic of it. Good for limited amount of space.

vcipresso

The elliptical will give you a great cardio workout. If you have good equipment it will actually be a better total body work over running and especially cycling. By good equipment I mean that you can apply high resistance and high incline. These are key to building leg strength and upper body strength, as well as, a high calorie burn. Push and pull with your arms will increase your heart rate quickly. I highly recommend interval training rather than a steady pace. In addition, Distance running is not much a calf muscle builder whether on the elliptical, treadmill or running outdoors. You have to run on your toes to build calves like a sprinter or soccer player. Sprinters have muscular legs, not distance runners. Distance running is catabolic (deteriorates muscles). If you want to build muscle you need to be in an anabolic state, short spurts of high intensity. The earlier suggestion of allowing the heel of your foot to rise when in stride on the elliptical is helpful.

robertw486

Francl27 wrote: »

For calves - walking on the treadmill at a high incline (don't hold the rail either).

Otherwise, I went from elliptical to running and it was hard - it's really not the same at all. But I stopped running because I get better burns walking at a high incline anyway and that way I'm not damaging my joints (and never cared for running anyway). And I alternate that and spinning now.

Bottom line, you really don't have to run if you don't enjoy it...

I'm more focused on the elliptical simply because we have one. As for enjoying running, I'm hoping that the majority of my dislike was the years of forced running in the military. I'm looking into endurance/mental challenge type races (think extended Spartan races) and won't be able to avoid the running component.

If I don't enjoy it, I'll find something else to keep me busy.

20yearsyounger wrote: »

robertw486 wrote: »

@rileyes and @20yearsyounger

Thanks for the extended info. I'm just hoping to minimize the time dealing with the impact of actual running, and make sure I can just focus on the adjustments rather than the cardio base.

I don't currently have an HRM type device designed for running, but do have a chest strap and small biking computer I could use to gauge HR and figure out where my cadence/stride puts me in regards to VO2max and/or HR ranges. I'm hoping that watching the HR vs output on the elliptical and bike make it a little easier to gauge where my pace should be when running.

I think it will help. In other forum posts you will find people talking about running at the point where it feels comfortable. The elliptical will help you with the steady state HR/VO2 max part. I found that running comfortably my HR is around 140BPM. I try to stay close to that on an elliptical as well. I have no problem with my breathing when running. The problem is with the impact on the body from the pounding. You can't compare that part at all to an elliptical.

To Francl27's point, yes you can actually get more of a calf impact on a high incline treadmill but I figured you had your thoughts on one piece of equipment and you liked the elliptical more.

BTW, on the ArcTrainer I didn't get as much distance at all. I have a Precor machine I will test tomorrow to see.

I'm sure that my steady state output and VO2max have increased fairly well between the elliptical and biking. I can readily knock out steady state and get my HR up close to my max when I want, and keep it up in the 92-95% range for close to an hour now.

I'm hoping that the shortened stride on the elliptical will help me translate that to running. I tend to stay at a cadence of 160-170, and want to bump it up into the 180-190 range if possible. Impact reduces somewhat with shorter stride and higher cadence in most runners.

As above, I'm using the elliptical simply because it's in our home, and due to that it's time efficient. I can get in a quick workout even when I'd be too busy to get to the gym.

vcipresso wrote: »

The elliptical will give you a great cardio workout. If you have good equipment it will actually be a better total body work over running and especially cycling. By good equipment I mean that you can apply high resistance and high incline. These are key to building leg strength and upper body strength, as well as, a high calorie burn. Push and pull with your arms will increase your heart rate quickly. I highly recommend interval training rather than a steady pace. In addition, Distance running is not much a calf muscle builder whether on the elliptical, treadmill or running outdoors. You have to run on your toes to build calves like a sprinter or soccer player. Sprinters have muscular legs, not distance runners. Distance running is catabolic (deteriorates muscles). If you want to build muscle you need to be in an anabolic state, short spurts of high intensity. The earlier suggestion of allowing the heel of your foot to rise when in stride on the elliptical is helpful.

The machine we have is an older commercial model Precor, but doesn't work the upper body. It does vary ramp, has some programs if I choose to use them, and resistance and ramp combined bring it up to stair climbing level at a minimum. The system will display output up to the 12-14 METs range, somewhere in the neighborhood of 25 calories per minute at my current weight.

I've been mixing it up, doing some pace work, some speed work, and some interval work as well. I realized doing Tabata type intervals I could exceed the output reading of the machine in some modes, so I guess that's a good indication that I'm improving in output.



@mattyc772014 For some reason it wouldn't let me quote you, but thanks for the scoop. Our machine is a bit older but rock solid. It does have limited programming compared to new ones, but the manual mode lets me do what I want. Interval mode and others can adjust ramp and resistance on the fly in automatic mode, so that's a plus too. And I got lucky and have a chest strap that pairs with the machine, so I don't have to grab the grips to get HR readings.

20yearsyounger

looks like you just need to get out there and run then. Around this time last year, I used to say that I didnt like running for no reason. Running messes your body up, I prefer low impact exercise machines. However, as I started to run, not worrying about time or anything, just getting from point A to point B without knowing exactly what point B was, I found it to be a freeing experience. Ended up putting in 1000 injury free miles. Will I enter a race in the future, who knows. However, I definitely can call myself a runner now who just likes to run until my bodymind says time to stop. The elliptical is at the base of that.

mattyc772014

@robertw486 I bought my elliptical at the Gym Source store. Check them out if interested. They sell other brands. They discount off of MSRP FYI.

robertw486

Bumping for input from anyone that missed it.....


I finally got out and ran a little on Saturday. Headed out with the intention of 3 miles with no concern for pace, just to get on my feet and see if it messed with my back any. Since my app failed, I ended up doing 2 miles more after a break, since going to the local school would give me an idea on pace even if the app failed again. Pace was mild 9.5-10 minute miles. Might have been a little quicker the first 3, mostly due to lack of pace setting ability. I know I'll have to work on input for finding and staying at a pace, that was always my weakness even when I was younger and running a lot more.

BUT.... took some notes on where the "new muscles" were found, hoping I can target them more. Not at all in my calves, so that approach was obviously not a real concern. Most of what I could feel was in the quads, some in the hamstrings. A little bit in the glutes, which for me was refreshing since stuff often considered gluts heavy I can't usually even notice!


I might try to find some plyo work or other low impact options to figure out where I can work on the weak points. Seems crazy to work on run pace without running, but I just don't want to be a slug and need to avoid the impacts as much as possible. Being I did 5+ the first time out in many years, I think I could have easily done a 10K in an hour IF I could get pace right.