Have you tried GLP1 medications and found it didn't work for you? We'd like to hear about your experiences, what you tried, why it didn't work and how you're doing now. Click here to tell us your story
We Can Blame Sugar All We Like – But We're Only Creating More Problems For Ourselves
Replies
-
Research shows that sugar can be as addictive as heroin, and I believe it. The main reason I've had a weight problem has been my never ending craving for sugary baked goods and candy bars.
Its like being an alcoholic or drug addict. One little taste leads to a binge
@JoJean12 I think a lot of people have trouble stopping once they start eating sugary yummy treats... However calling it an addiction is far fetched.
When you don't have sugar do you have days and days of no sleep, profuse sweating and vomiting, skin crawling like there's bugs underneath? Do you have severe body aches constantly, would you beg, borrow or steal to get your hands on a snickers bar? Are you willing to line up at the methadone clinic with the other addicts?
If yes, then I concur you do have an addiction, if no, then what you're feeling are strong cravings, just like the rest of us.
What I listed above are what heroin addicts go through when they don't get their fix...0 -
_Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »So much good stuff in this thread, want to make some comments..._Terrapin_ wrote: »Bloomberg View: In Mexico, a Soda Tax Success Story. This week's Bloomberg has a short write-up on the tax on soda in Mexico. Paraphrasing the article, sugary drinks are the primary driver of obesity, purchases of sugary drinks dropped 12%, obesity is becoming a global epidemic the greatest group helped by the tax are the poor which has also helps lower their need for medical care which is costly. I can see this becoming a more popular idea in the coming years. Last bullet point: Sugary drinks should be eliminated from the federal food stamps program. Food for thought folks.
Interesting! I bet it will have more of an impact in Mexico than it would in the US. Mexicans spend something like 20-25% of their income on food and Americans spend around 5-10%. That's not to say taxes have no impact, just that I would expect the effect to be greater there than here.susan100df wrote: »While I don't think sugar is the devil, I do know that the foods I overeat have an abundance of sugar. If that ingredient isn't in the food, I have zero interest in overeating it. Thats the same for many people. Discussing is helpful. Being slammed in the forum for wanting to discuss is harmful. Prohibiting the discussion because you don't believe it exists does not help anyone. Just because you don't have the issue, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I could get plenty obese without ever touching sugary treats. Pizza, Mexican food, Chinese food, BBQ, burgers and french fries, etc. I'd much sooner eat 3,000 calories of Mexican food than I would 3,000 calories of cake, pie, donuts or candy bars. Sweets are actually pretty easy for me to control, they're rarely the thing I have interest in overeating.
Mexican food! Are we related? I could eat ALL of the Mexican food.Christine_72 wrote: »Just because it's savoury doesn't mean there's no sugar in it.. For example, a large Hawaiian pizza which equals 6 smallish slices has 27.6g of sugar. I think one would be hard pressed to find any "junk" food that doesn't contain sugar.
I was pondering this when I was about to call myself one of those people that prefer savory foods. It does seem like sugar gets added to a lot of stuff for flavor. Is sugar somehow in my burrito from my Mexican food restaurant? Possibly.I think it is like alcohol. Not everyone who drinks has a problem with alcohol but can be very critical to those that have a problem. I enjoy this discussion because most posters are writing very thoughtful posts despite what side they are on.
I think there are a lot of parallels between alcohol and sugar (minus that they don't needlessly add alcohol to a bunch of our foods, nor is congress promoting agricultural welfare to keep the beer-makers in business). It's interesting, in any "what am I doing wrong/why am I not losing weight" thread you will always see someone posting that carbs are evil and that's why this person isn't losing weight. But you never see people making the same judgment calls about a glass of wine every night. As long as that glass of wine fits in people's calories, no one freaks out over it. Even though, our body's ability to process alcohol is way more limited than to process carbs which we are really good at. I wonder how many low carb fanatics are actually drinking alcohol frequently but don't see the parallel.The schools themselves? None; those companies don't sponsor schools just to exist. They do, however, sponsor a lot of research which is often conducted at medical schools (at least, any decent medical school should also be conducting medical research).
I am currently reading The Sports Gene (would recommend, very fascinating) and just listened to a bit today where one of the genetic researchers is much more interested in what genetics come into play in athletic performance but there's very little funding for that. So he's studying and publishing papers on childhood obesity because there's plenty of money in that. Even though he complains all of the factors for obesity are likely environmental and that very little can really be done genetics-wise. I never really thought about the fact that the food companies might want to fund genetic obesity research because it shifts the focus away from their possible contributions.stevencloser wrote: »If only there was like... some people whose whole job and expertise revolved around finding out the causes and risk factors for certain things, if there was people researching this kind of stuff, let's call them researchers if you will.
If only...
Welp, too bad that there isn't anyone like that. We're still reliant on feelings of good and evil like 3000 years ago.
Brilliant!
IT IS THE BEST BOOK EVER!! Ok, I like a lot of fiction better, but it was a fascinating read. I'm not a huge non-fiction reader, but as a geneticist, it was a great read, and I love how I can recommend it to a lot of people who don't understand genetics at all (and they will after reading it).
ETA: I think my favorite fun fact from the book is that while humans need to recover to build muscle, huskies build muscle even while using them. So, dogs that run the Iditarod end up with more muscle than when they started.
Is this the book Herschel Walker's childhood workout is in?
I don't recall that one, but maybe? The book covers a wide range of genetic differences, and what that means in relation to drive (there was a kid who walked in and essentially won national titles for high jump almost without training, horrible form, etc. But, he actually liked to play basketball, so after they discovered his inherent talent, he still wouldn't train because he'd rather be playing with his friends. Genetics only gets you so far.
It was a very fascinating read.
This may be the book I'm thinking of; review of twins, etc. Nipples are discussed?!?
Yup, that's it.
Okay, on the block for the weekend.
If anyone starts a discussion of the book somewhere on here, lemme know! I'm only about halfway through (yay audiobooks) but EVERY time I listen to it there's something fascinating in what I'm listening to.
0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
First, a TV report isn't good evidence. The media frequently slants or exaggerates findings either to get attention or because reporters often aren't very smart or educated in the areas they are reporting about (I see this in my own field all the time).
Second, let's look at it. It strikes me as self-evidently extremely shoddy work on its face.
It starts with this claim, which is what you seem to have latched on to:They now claim sugar is eight times more addictive than cocaine.
"They" is supposed to signal a change in the belief of "researchers" in general, but that's stupid. Specific researchers are talking about the results of a specific study. Also, cocaine isn't heroin and what does "8 times more addictive than cocaine" even mean? Sounds like a banana might be super dangerous, right?
Well, let's see.Dr. Nicole Avena of the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai tells The Huffington Post that pizza is the most addictive food by far due to the hidden sugar you'll find in just once slice. The tomato sauce on the pizza, for example, can have more sugar than a few Oreos.
So the source is another journalistic report? Not the study itself. And the pizza is "addictive" due to the tiny amount of sugar in it, mostly from tomatoes (this was covered upthread -- a slice of pizza typically has 1-3 grams of sugar).
Seems dubious, and I'm worrying more about that banana (well, not really).
Here's the article, btw: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/07/21/food-addiction_n_6709756.html
It strikes me as quite silly too, as it's basically saying we are more likely to overeat foods that many find extremely palatable and "treats" vs. foods that people don't tend to like as much or find as exciting. If you ask me, people overeat them because we are an overly-indulgent society and people seem to have stopped understanding that treat means "eat only a little" or "eat on occasion" not "eat as much as you might possibly desire, whenever." Cookies were available in the '50s too (although not as easily, true), and our cookies aren't magically more appealing or "addictive." People in the '50s just didn't think gobbling down a whole batch of cookies was reasonable behavior. There were cultural restrictions against it. (And people weren't invited to eat all the time throughout the day, either. Someone who did would have been considered odd.)
Okay, back to the article!
I notice it never explains why it focuses on sugar when the addiction "study" was about highly palatable "processed" foods (I suspect homemade versions would have scored just as high in many cases). Nor does it provide any support for the 8x number.
I find it odd that you would think this is credible support AT ALL for your claim here. Don't people understand how to assess information?
True 'dat. Since they talk about pizza...I'm lactose intolerant. I have been able to give up eating pizza (basically lactaid pills stopped being enough so I have no help there). It causes extreme pain/abdominal discomfort plus other fun symptoms. If I was addicted, I'd probably still be eating pizza despite the pain. It's not that alcoholics don't get hangovers, it's that the hangover isn't enough to stop them from giving it up. Everyone seems to be lactose intolerant / gluten intolerant / vegetarian / vegan these days. Seems to show food is not as addicting as drugs are.0 -
blues4miles wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »_Terrapin_ wrote: »blues4miles wrote: »So much good stuff in this thread, want to make some comments..._Terrapin_ wrote: »Bloomberg View: In Mexico, a Soda Tax Success Story. This week's Bloomberg has a short write-up on the tax on soda in Mexico. Paraphrasing the article, sugary drinks are the primary driver of obesity, purchases of sugary drinks dropped 12%, obesity is becoming a global epidemic the greatest group helped by the tax are the poor which has also helps lower their need for medical care which is costly. I can see this becoming a more popular idea in the coming years. Last bullet point: Sugary drinks should be eliminated from the federal food stamps program. Food for thought folks.
Interesting! I bet it will have more of an impact in Mexico than it would in the US. Mexicans spend something like 20-25% of their income on food and Americans spend around 5-10%. That's not to say taxes have no impact, just that I would expect the effect to be greater there than here.susan100df wrote: »While I don't think sugar is the devil, I do know that the foods I overeat have an abundance of sugar. If that ingredient isn't in the food, I have zero interest in overeating it. Thats the same for many people. Discussing is helpful. Being slammed in the forum for wanting to discuss is harmful. Prohibiting the discussion because you don't believe it exists does not help anyone. Just because you don't have the issue, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I could get plenty obese without ever touching sugary treats. Pizza, Mexican food, Chinese food, BBQ, burgers and french fries, etc. I'd much sooner eat 3,000 calories of Mexican food than I would 3,000 calories of cake, pie, donuts or candy bars. Sweets are actually pretty easy for me to control, they're rarely the thing I have interest in overeating.
Mexican food! Are we related? I could eat ALL of the Mexican food.Christine_72 wrote: »Just because it's savoury doesn't mean there's no sugar in it.. For example, a large Hawaiian pizza which equals 6 smallish slices has 27.6g of sugar. I think one would be hard pressed to find any "junk" food that doesn't contain sugar.
I was pondering this when I was about to call myself one of those people that prefer savory foods. It does seem like sugar gets added to a lot of stuff for flavor. Is sugar somehow in my burrito from my Mexican food restaurant? Possibly.I think it is like alcohol. Not everyone who drinks has a problem with alcohol but can be very critical to those that have a problem. I enjoy this discussion because most posters are writing very thoughtful posts despite what side they are on.
I think there are a lot of parallels between alcohol and sugar (minus that they don't needlessly add alcohol to a bunch of our foods, nor is congress promoting agricultural welfare to keep the beer-makers in business). It's interesting, in any "what am I doing wrong/why am I not losing weight" thread you will always see someone posting that carbs are evil and that's why this person isn't losing weight. But you never see people making the same judgment calls about a glass of wine every night. As long as that glass of wine fits in people's calories, no one freaks out over it. Even though, our body's ability to process alcohol is way more limited than to process carbs which we are really good at. I wonder how many low carb fanatics are actually drinking alcohol frequently but don't see the parallel.The schools themselves? None; those companies don't sponsor schools just to exist. They do, however, sponsor a lot of research which is often conducted at medical schools (at least, any decent medical school should also be conducting medical research).
I am currently reading The Sports Gene (would recommend, very fascinating) and just listened to a bit today where one of the genetic researchers is much more interested in what genetics come into play in athletic performance but there's very little funding for that. So he's studying and publishing papers on childhood obesity because there's plenty of money in that. Even though he complains all of the factors for obesity are likely environmental and that very little can really be done genetics-wise. I never really thought about the fact that the food companies might want to fund genetic obesity research because it shifts the focus away from their possible contributions.stevencloser wrote: »If only there was like... some people whose whole job and expertise revolved around finding out the causes and risk factors for certain things, if there was people researching this kind of stuff, let's call them researchers if you will.
If only...
Welp, too bad that there isn't anyone like that. We're still reliant on feelings of good and evil like 3000 years ago.
Brilliant!
IT IS THE BEST BOOK EVER!! Ok, I like a lot of fiction better, but it was a fascinating read. I'm not a huge non-fiction reader, but as a geneticist, it was a great read, and I love how I can recommend it to a lot of people who don't understand genetics at all (and they will after reading it).
ETA: I think my favorite fun fact from the book is that while humans need to recover to build muscle, huskies build muscle even while using them. So, dogs that run the Iditarod end up with more muscle than when they started.
Is this the book Herschel Walker's childhood workout is in?
I don't recall that one, but maybe? The book covers a wide range of genetic differences, and what that means in relation to drive (there was a kid who walked in and essentially won national titles for high jump almost without training, horrible form, etc. But, he actually liked to play basketball, so after they discovered his inherent talent, he still wouldn't train because he'd rather be playing with his friends. Genetics only gets you so far.
It was a very fascinating read.
This may be the book I'm thinking of; review of twins, etc. Nipples are discussed?!?
Yup, that's it.
Okay, on the block for the weekend.
If anyone starts a discussion of the book somewhere on here, lemme know! I'm only about halfway through (yay audiobooks) but EVERY time I listen to it there's something fascinating in what I'm listening to.
Hm, I feel like if I were to discuss it I'd need to reread it. It's just so packed full of great facts and stories. Luckily I have it on my kindle.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Research shows that sugar can be as addictive as heroin, and I believe it. The main reason I've had a weight problem has been my never ending craving for sugary baked goods and candy bars.
Its like being an alcoholic or drug addict. One little taste leads to a binge
@JoJean12 I think a lot of people have trouble stopping once they start eating sugary yummy treats... However calling it an addiction is far fetched.
When you don't have sugar do you have days and days of no sleep, profuse sweating and vomiting, skin crawling like there's bugs underneath? Do you have severe body aches constantly, would you beg, borrow or steal to get your hands on a snickers bar? Are you willing to line up at the methadone clinic with the other addicts?
If yes, then I concur you do have an addiction, if no, then what you're feeling are strong cravings, just like the rest of us.
What I listed above are what heroin addicts go through when they don't get their fix...
To be fair, I think there's a difference between an addiction and a dependency.
One can be addicted to gambling or sex or whatever and not have a physical dependency.
For the record I choose not to weigh in on the sugar debate either way.0 -
Christine_72 wrote: »Research shows that sugar can be as addictive as heroin, and I believe it. The main reason I've had a weight problem has been my never ending craving for sugary baked goods and candy bars.
Its like being an alcoholic or drug addict. One little taste leads to a binge
@JoJean12 I think a lot of people have trouble stopping once they start eating sugary yummy treats... However calling it an addiction is far fetched.
When you don't have sugar do you have days and days of no sleep, profuse sweating and vomiting, skin crawling like there's bugs underneath? Do you have severe body aches constantly, would you beg, borrow or steal to get your hands on a snickers bar? Are you willing to line up at the methadone clinic with the other addicts?
If yes, then I concur you do have an addiction, if no, then what you're feeling are strong cravings, just like the rest of us.
What I listed above are what heroin addicts go through when they don't get their fix...
Oh my goodness. We actually agree on something @Christine_720 -
thorsmom01 wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Research shows that sugar can be as addictive as heroin, and I believe it. The main reason I've had a weight problem has been my never ending craving for sugary baked goods and candy bars.
Its like being an alcoholic or drug addict. One little taste leads to a binge
@JoJean12 I think a lot of people have trouble stopping once they start eating sugary yummy treats... However calling it an addiction is far fetched.
When you don't have sugar do you have days and days of no sleep, profuse sweating and vomiting, skin crawling like there's bugs underneath? Do you have severe body aches constantly, would you beg, borrow or steal to get your hands on a snickers bar? Are you willing to line up at the methadone clinic with the other addicts?
If yes, then I concur you do have an addiction, if no, then what you're feeling are strong cravings, just like the rest of us.
What I listed above are what heroin addicts go through when they don't get their fix...
Oh my goodness. We actually agree on something @Christine_72
Good Lord, the heavens have parted
0 -
sault_girl wrote: »Christine_72 wrote: »Research shows that sugar can be as addictive as heroin, and I believe it. The main reason I've had a weight problem has been my never ending craving for sugary baked goods and candy bars.
Its like being an alcoholic or drug addict. One little taste leads to a binge
@JoJean12 I think a lot of people have trouble stopping once they start eating sugary yummy treats... However calling it an addiction is far fetched.
When you don't have sugar do you have days and days of no sleep, profuse sweating and vomiting, skin crawling like there's bugs underneath? Do you have severe body aches constantly, would you beg, borrow or steal to get your hands on a snickers bar? Are you willing to line up at the methadone clinic with the other addicts?
If yes, then I concur you do have an addiction, if no, then what you're feeling are strong cravings, just like the rest of us.
What I listed above are what heroin addicts go through when they don't get their fix...
To be fair, I think there's a difference between an addiction and a dependency.
One can be addicted to gambling or sex or whatever and not have a physical dependency.
For the record I choose not to weigh in on the sugar debate either way.
Also, even if "addiction" were the correct word, if it's like a gambling or sex addiction it's about the action, not the substance. In other words, an "eating" addiction, not a "junk food" addiction. Which makes more sense in that people might have trouble with foods that have sugar (cookies) plus other foods that don't (chips, pizza), and not with other foods with lots of sugar (apples, bananas, pineapple). I mostly don't think addiction is the right word for what we are talking about -- I think it's that habits can be powerful and that people do use food to self-comfort, etc. (which is part of what an addiction involves, but not the whole of it), but in some cases I think eating addiction does apply. I'm thinking both of the posts by a poster named CyberEd, who had once been morbidly obese and discussed his struggles with overeating, and of an interview I saw with another morbidly obese woman who talked about how she knew her eating was killing her, but she didn't feel like she would have anything in her life, anything worth living for, if she gave it up. Not only was that profoundly sad, but it sounded exactly like the thought pattern of addicts I've known.
What bothers me is comparing that to difficulty not overdoing it with foods you really love or with mindless eating under stress, both of which I've dealt with myself and think are quite different (although real issues that can be challenging to work on).0 -
blues4miles wrote: »True 'dat. Since they talk about pizza...I'm lactose intolerant. I have been able to give up eating pizza (basically lactaid pills stopped being enough so I have no help there). It causes extreme pain/abdominal discomfort plus other fun symptoms. If I was addicted, I'd probably still be eating pizza despite the pain. It's not that alcoholics don't get hangovers, it's that the hangover isn't enough to stop them from giving it up. Everyone seems to be lactose intolerant / gluten intolerant / vegetarian / vegan these days. Seems to show food is not as addicting as drugs are.
I'm allergic to soy and it took me years to decide the pain of eating anything with soy in it, no mater what the amount, wasn't worth the misery. Chronic GI distress I guess was easier to live with than a full avoidance diet.. I just kept trying to convince myself I could cheat and eat the oreo cookies, or have pizza with my friends, or go out occasionally with my family for Chinese, or pop a premade dinner in the microwave. Eventually, though, I said "enough". I wasn't addicted, not even remotely, it was just SOOOOOO convenient. And social. You don't even think about the social impact of real food allergies, but they're incredibly isolating. SO because I wanted to do things with friends and family that involved food, I put up with misery.
Then the daughter of one of my father's co-workers died from an intestinal rupture caused by a food intolerance. She was the same age as me. Suddenly, I saw that I wasn't just making myself spend extra time in the bathroom; I was running the risk of killing myself. The balance tipped And eliminating soy was easy. It helped that my family got serious about helping me do this, too, instead of constantly bringing in soy-containing foods.
Six months later I developed a peanut allergy. Never allergic to peanuts in my life. I'm still really irritated.. but after having 12 episodes of anaphylaxis in 6 months I learned to be very, very, very VERY careful. I miss snickers, but I like being alive.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.8K Introduce Yourself
- 43.7K Getting Started
- 260.1K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.8K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 413 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.9K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.6K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.5K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions