The Fitnesspal default 1200 kcal recommendation is ridiculous
caitlintooher
Posts: 5 Member
Yes, I understand that all of us on myfitnesspal want to loose weight, but one would expect that the site stays clear of ushering people into starvation.
If you want to loose aggressively, at 2 pounds a week (which is anyway only possible because these 2 pounds will NOT be fat but mostly water, muscle and as smallest percentage fat), and often even at a desired loss of 1 pound, the default offer is to eat 1200 kcal. This might work for a utterly sedentary woman who comes up to 5 feet in her stockings, but not for the many women and especially men who find this recommendation.
It will work, no doubt about it. You are guaranteed to loose weight. Because for the vast majority of us our body uses more than 1200 calories just to exist in the course of 24 hours. And that is even without getting out of bed. All those stories about people eating at the 1200 calorie level and not loosing weight are just that. If you are of average height and move your body even a bit, the laws of physics decree that you will loose weight. This idea that the body holds on to weight because it protects itself against starvation is not backed by science. Otherwise nobody who gets at least some sustenance would ever die of starvation.
One thing to keep in mind is that 1200 kcal per day IS starvation. In the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in WWII the participants were fed 1,560 kcal, and they lost about 25% of their body weight in 24 weeks. Because that is what happens when you put people in a famine situation. Famine. And that was with 360 kcal more than myfitnesspal tells you to eat to loose weight at 1 to 2 pounds a week.
In case you consider this a good thing, to the healthy volunteers in the study this caused severe emotional distress and depression, loss of libido, decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, and utter preoccupation with food. The last "side effect" stayed with the volunteers until well after the end of the experiment, after they had gotten back to their previous weights.
1000 to 1500 kcal per day was the amount of calories Germans survived on in the hunger winter of 1946/47. Not all of them did.
To tell people wanting to loose weight for good that they should effectively starve themselves despite good evidence that it simply does not work is utterly irresponsible.
Yes, cutting your calories for a shorter time to get a kickstart on loosing weight can work and doesn't seem a problem, but quite simply, telling people to stay on an extremely low calorie diet for months and month is just mad.
If you want to loose aggressively, at 2 pounds a week (which is anyway only possible because these 2 pounds will NOT be fat but mostly water, muscle and as smallest percentage fat), and often even at a desired loss of 1 pound, the default offer is to eat 1200 kcal. This might work for a utterly sedentary woman who comes up to 5 feet in her stockings, but not for the many women and especially men who find this recommendation.
It will work, no doubt about it. You are guaranteed to loose weight. Because for the vast majority of us our body uses more than 1200 calories just to exist in the course of 24 hours. And that is even without getting out of bed. All those stories about people eating at the 1200 calorie level and not loosing weight are just that. If you are of average height and move your body even a bit, the laws of physics decree that you will loose weight. This idea that the body holds on to weight because it protects itself against starvation is not backed by science. Otherwise nobody who gets at least some sustenance would ever die of starvation.
One thing to keep in mind is that 1200 kcal per day IS starvation. In the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in WWII the participants were fed 1,560 kcal, and they lost about 25% of their body weight in 24 weeks. Because that is what happens when you put people in a famine situation. Famine. And that was with 360 kcal more than myfitnesspal tells you to eat to loose weight at 1 to 2 pounds a week.
In case you consider this a good thing, to the healthy volunteers in the study this caused severe emotional distress and depression, loss of libido, decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, and utter preoccupation with food. The last "side effect" stayed with the volunteers until well after the end of the experiment, after they had gotten back to their previous weights.
1000 to 1500 kcal per day was the amount of calories Germans survived on in the hunger winter of 1946/47. Not all of them did.
To tell people wanting to loose weight for good that they should effectively starve themselves despite good evidence that it simply does not work is utterly irresponsible.
Yes, cutting your calories for a shorter time to get a kickstart on loosing weight can work and doesn't seem a problem, but quite simply, telling people to stay on an extremely low calorie diet for months and month is just mad.
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Replies
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1200 calories is not the default recommendation. I want to lose 30 pounds at one pound per week and I get 1430 calories before exercise, and I exercise. I'm 5'6".0
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MFP uses a standard equation and has a minimum calorie setting. If a female, such as myself, burned around 2200 calories per day then told MFP they wanted to lose 2 pounds per week the program will subtract 1000 calories per day. If the woman burned 1700 calories per day, such as my mom who is shorter and older, then told MFP they wanted to lose 1 pound per week the program will subtract 500 calories per day. If she said she wanted to lose 2 pounds it would set it automatically as low as the program allows.
MFP doesn't pick 1200 at random, it uses your stats and your requested weight loss to come up with a calorie goal. MFP sets my calorie goal to lose 1 pound per week at much higher than 1200 because of my activity level and height.
There are many good reasons to not under eat that have nothing to do with "starvation mode" and everything to do with adaptive thermogenesis, hormone imbalance, lean mass loss, and other health hazards.0 -
You forgot to mention the part where they ate 1500 calories and we're put under vary labor intensive work in order to actually be starving. The participants were actually starved by low diet and exercise in a controlled experiment in the 1950s.
Their bodies responded in the ways scientists believed them to. The point of the experiment was to induce starvation and then work on ways to properly rehabilitate starvation sufferers.
MFP actually does recomend no less than 1500 for men and 1200 for women.
All weightloss is done through a controlled form of slight starvation. This is because we need our bodies to use the excess fat we have stored during a calorie surplus during a time when calories aren't as plentiful.
So yes the experiment was about starvation but no It does not prove your point. If you are eating the bare min you can still lose weight safely. If you exercise on it you should eat back calories.
Nobody here is promoting harmful starvation as a way of life and I'm sorry you see the idea of weightloss progress in this light.0 -
Don't forget that many people here wind up with 1200 calories because they've chosen to lose weight too aggressively. They've chosen that.0
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kshama2001 wrote: »1200 calories is not the default recommendation. I want to lose 30 pounds at one pound per week and I get 1430 calories before exercise, and I exercise. I'm 5'6".
It is however, the default minimum for women. Perhaps that's the source of confusion?0 -
I started healthier eating in November weighing 180. I'm currently at 1200 + half my exercise calories, and losing about a pound a week. I'm feeling really good energy and health-wise, but I wouldn't recommend it for really active women who only have a few pounds to lose. It's just not sustainable long-term.
When I hit 165 lbs, and in anticipation of increasing my speeds/burns on my 5 mile walk/run and my 400 meter swim, I'll raise my calories to 1400 + half my exercise cals.
What scares me is I see these very young women who are 20 - 25 on here who want to lose 15-20 pounds who are trying to eat 1200 cals and are running 5 miles every day to do it.0 -
Well my bmr is only 1330. So that's only 130 more than 1200. If I'm in a coma.
Anycase, I manage to lose on 1650 calories (which MFP recommended btw). I eat all of them if I'm hungry for them, and if I'm not, I just stick with 1200 or wherever I end up in between. I've stuck to 1200 for a month before (not intentionally) and I was absolutely fine.
Because eating 250grams of vegetables is a lot.0 -
QueenofHearts023 wrote: »Well my bmr is only 1330. So that's only 130 more than 1200. If I'm in a coma.
Anycase, I manage to lose on 1650 calories (which MFP recommended btw). I eat all of them if I'm hungry for them, and if I'm not, I just stick with 1200 or wherever I end up in between. I've stuck to 1200 for a month before (not intentionally) and I was absolutely fine.
Because eating 250grams of vegetables is a lot.
child's play0 -
arditarose wrote: »QueenofHearts023 wrote: »Well my bmr is only 1330. So that's only 130 more than 1200. If I'm in a coma.
Anycase, I manage to lose on 1650 calories (which MFP recommended btw). I eat all of them if I'm hungry for them, and if I'm not, I just stick with 1200 or wherever I end up in between. I've stuck to 1200 for a month before (not intentionally) and I was absolutely fine.
Because eating 250grams of vegetables is a lot.
child's play
Hahahaha not to me. I have a child sized stomach
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One of my friends is convinced she has to eat 600-700 calories a day to lose weight. Now THAT'S starvation.0
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QueenofHearts023 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »QueenofHearts023 wrote: »Well my bmr is only 1330. So that's only 130 more than 1200. If I'm in a coma.
Anycase, I manage to lose on 1650 calories (which MFP recommended btw). I eat all of them if I'm hungry for them, and if I'm not, I just stick with 1200 or wherever I end up in between. I've stuck to 1200 for a month before (not intentionally) and I was absolutely fine.
Because eating 250grams of vegetables is a lot.
child's play
Hahahaha not to me. I have a child sized stomach
lol and I'm a bottomless pit
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QueenofHearts023 wrote: »One of my friends is convinced she has to eat 600-700 calories a day to lose weight. Now THAT'S starvation.
600? Is she a becoming a breatharian? That's terrifying.0 -
arditarose wrote: »QueenofHearts023 wrote: »arditarose wrote: »QueenofHearts023 wrote: »Well my bmr is only 1330. So that's only 130 more than 1200. If I'm in a coma.
Anycase, I manage to lose on 1650 calories (which MFP recommended btw). I eat all of them if I'm hungry for them, and if I'm not, I just stick with 1200 or wherever I end up in between. I've stuck to 1200 for a month before (not intentionally) and I was absolutely fine.
Because eating 250grams of vegetables is a lot.
child's play
Hahahaha not to me. I have a child sized stomach
lol and I'm a bottomless pit
I've never had much of an appetite. I gained weight because I ate too much fat, drank soda/juicw instead of water (yes 8 glasses a day) and I ate candy as snacks. Hahaha other than that my diet was quite healthy. Oh I also didn't exercise. Ever.0 -
Oh, good grief.
I'm 5'5" and my predicted maintenance at goal weight is in the 1400s (net), so a 1200 recommendation is hardly "extremely low" by comparison. At goal weight, 1200 is roughly what the calculators predict I would burn "just to exist in the course of 24 hours", i.e., my BMR, and I'm kind of average height for a woman, aiming for a goal weight within the healthy BMI range (and approved by my doctor).
If MFP recommends 1200 for someone, it is recommending 1200 net - i.e., you should eat back your exercise. For a time, my goal was 1200 net, which meant I was actually eating 1400-1700+. Clearly, you don't understand how MFP recommendations are calculated, and you don't seem understand how it intends we apply them.
The cases you cite (starvation experiment, German famine) are not even remotely parallel to the cases where MFP may recommend 1200. The men in the starvation experiment were men with hard-labor activity levels, and the unfortunate Germans were people of various ages, not necessarily in robust health in the first place, eating varying extremely low calorie levels of what was probably a poor-quality diet. They were not comparable to obese first-world people who need to lose weight, and are doing so intentionally, with access to nutritious foods.
I agree that there are people on MFP who are eating at 1200 who needn't necessarily do so in order to lose weight, including some for whom it's an unhealthily low goal. But to say that 1200 is an unreasonable goal for anyone and everyone . . . is ridiculous.0 -
Well, I'm a pint-sized 64 year old woman with a tricky knee who is on 1220. I walk, swim, weight train, and walk. I've lost 55 lbs, have great muscle mass, excellent bone density, I'll eat back some of my exercise calories, but I try not to do so. I'm not wasting away or starving. I cook most of my own meals, and maintain a decent balance of carbs, fats, and protein. Even a cookie or two. I'm not anorexic. I still have about 40 pounds to go before I hit maintenance.0
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You'd think with all the millions of users MFP has suggested 1200 to, just one would've by now launched a successful lawsuit for being given a diet plan that is dangerous. If it was, I mean.0
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Yeah this is all sorts of absurd. As a 5'2" woman who was on 1200cal/day for the first 25 lbs of loss, I can honestly say not only was it not even that hard, I felt fine doing it. Because I had PLENTY of fat stores to make up for the deficit.
Also, as someone who has been homeless and ACTUALLY unable to secure adequate food for a time, your insinuation that 1200 calories per day is starvation is frankly insulting. You don't get to define a perfectly adequate weight loss caloric intake as "starving" until you've scraped the leftovers off a Waffle House plate someone didn't finish into your pockets mmmkay?0 -
Actually the Starvation Experiment is a very apt analogy for a good number of people on MFP. The 1500 Calories were NET calories during the experiment. The labour requirement was so that the participant's TDEE would reach 3000 and make the food they ate no more than 50% of TDEE.
One of the more important points was that the volunteers were of NORMAL weight. Which is why the aggressive goals chosen by people of normal weight who are trying to lose vanity lbs are so problematic.
Which is why MFP would do much better to switch to promoting a deficit limit of 20% of TDEE (25% while obese).
However, blanket recommendations out there that promote 2lbs a week as a safe rate of loss exist in government literature no less.
And MFP in reality does not promote 1200, but has set 1200 as a hard minimum for women, the corresponding hard minimum for men being 1500 when the goal setting scripts work as intended.
So, even though I wish that MFP would do a better job of interviewing new users and helping them set appropriate goals, the reality is that most people are not willing to put in the effort and time to read: they just want a cool app that will magically help them shed weight, fast. By tomorrow morning.
And MFP's business is to sell ads and subscriptions, which means they do not want to lose people to the next app, the one that promises big weight loss in no time.0 -
Actually the Starvation Experiment is a very apt analogy for a good number of people on MFP. The 1500 Calories were NET calories during the experiment. The labour requirement was so that the participant's TDEE would reach 3000 and make the food they ate no more than 50% of TDEE.
One of the more important points was that the volunteers were of NORMAL weight. Which is why the aggressive goals chosen by people of normal weight who are trying to lose vanity lbs are so problematic.
Which is why MFP would do much better to switch to promoting a deficit limit of 20% of TDEE (25% while obese).
However, blanket recommendations out there that promote 2lbs a week as a safe rate of loss exist in government literature no less.
And MFP in reality does not promote 1200, but has set 1200 as a hard minimum for women, the corresponding hard minimum for men being 1500 when the goal setting scripts work as intended.
So, even though I wish that MFP would do a better job of interviewing new users and helping them set appropriate goals, the reality is that most people are not willing to put in the effort and time to read: they just want a cool app that will magically help them shed weight, fast. By tomorrow morning.
And MFP's business is to sell ads and subscriptions, which means they do not want to lose people to the next app, the one that promises big weight loss in no time.
All of this with cherries on top.0 -
"One thing to keep in mind is that 1200 kcal per day IS starvation. In the Minnesota Starvation Experiment in WWII the participants were fed 1,560 kcal, and they lost about 25% of their body weight in 24 weeks. Because that is what happens when you put people in a famine situation. Famine. And that was with 360 kcal more than myfitnesspal tells you to eat to loose weight at 1 to 2 pounds a week."
Methinks that someone is really loose with the dramatics. Are you a registered dietician, caitlintooher? My registered dietician at Walter Reed set me at 1220 to LOSE weight.
This is a excerpt from the study in question. The subjects were all healthy men who were of normal weight for men if their age:
"Semi-Starvation Period (24 weeks): During the 6-month semi-starvation period, each subject’s dietary intake was cut to approximately 1,560 kilocalories per day. Their meals were composed of foods that were expected to typify the diets of people in Europe during the latter stages of the war: potatoes, rutabagas, turnips, bread and macaroni."
Not what I would call nutritionally balanced.0
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