To my brethren and sistren* converted from deep and woo
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juggernaut1974 wrote: »juggernaut1974 wrote: »prettysoul1908 wrote: »Great anecdotes!! Some really funny stories!
My apologies to anyone offended by the word woo. I look at is as just... A word. For me it describes weight loss theories proclaimed as the holy grail. I used to believe them. I used to fail. I thought my metabolism was "broken". Recognizing "woo" pulled me out of a disappointing cycle.
And please don't misunderstand my approach. There's no jumping in strangers convos or butting in personal dialogues. I'm talking about discussions one might be part of.
No need to apologize. Woo is woo. There's no insult intended towards the person for calling out bad information for what it is.
In MY opinion, if someone is insulted that blatantly false information (nutrition/fitness related or otherwise) is called out as such, then perhaps he or she should look more deeply as to why that effects them so personally.
Today I shall be mainly following you around and agreeing with what you say
I've always wanted to pet rabbit
FIFY.
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determined24girl wrote: »prettysoul1908 wrote: »determined24girl wrote: »I nearly died when she said she was going to try that diet where you only eat like an egg, some crackers, and drink only green tea for 3 to 5 days...
Egg and crackers diet? That's a new one. I wonder what were the promised results of that one. Lol
I can't remember what she said it was supposed to do. Probably something ridiculous like LOSE 20 LBS IN 5 DAYS!!!!!!!
Candidly, I think that is what it boils down to--the seduction of quick results. Some people don't embrace discipline.
There is an old monastic wisdom that true freedom can only be found within the context of discipline. E.g. are you free at this moment to drop what you are doing and run a 10k? The freedom to do that would probably involve some kind of training discipline. Otherwise it is not on the table, not an option, not free to make that choice. Maybe the same with food. Are you free to work some kind of special meal into your plan? If you stick to a discipline on the reg, you have the freedom to fit just about anything in as a one-off while maintaining your desired body comp. If you have no plan/discipline, sure you can eat it so I guess it's a lousy comparison, but the body composition you desire is not an option you are free to choose. I am torturing this, because it is really about having a spiritual discipline of kindness and humility, so that in the heat of the moment you are free to choose the spiritually mature action vs. reacting like a 3 year old. Which, to bring it back to OP, might give one the true freedom to nod politely.
tl:dr/didn't mean to derail.0 -
A young girl (about 19) in one of my classes told me to "forgive her grumpiness because she is on a detox". Of course I couldn't help myself so I asked what she is detoxing from her body. She went on to tell me that she is a "runner" and she wants to beat her goal so she is cutting out sugar, carbs, caffeine and dairy for 7 days.
I didn't say anything but I can't imagine what my face looked like.
I'd like to think that I'm smiling and nodding when people tell me this craziness... but I'm pretty sure that's not what they're seeing.0 -
What on earth is "deep and woo?"0
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Actual conversation the other day.
Me: *drinks diet coke quietly*
Him: Dude diet coke is so much worse for you than regular..
Me: For me it isn't.
Him: No man, that stuff doesn't help anyone lose weight, and it will give you cancer.
Me: Bro you honestly don't know what you're taking about.(tad pretentious but I never asked his opinion on my choice I'm beverage)
Him: Oh and I guess you do? Show me research that proves it helps anyone..
Me: I've lost almost 80lbs. And more importantly I've taken almost every health indicator number like blood sugar and pressure from the "bad" to the "normal". I didnt work out or drink a gallon of water a day..i just lowered my calories, largely by cutting out like 600 calories a day in soda and juices, and just drinking 0 calorie drinks..
Him: *I don't remember specifically but I think he smiled and agreed I probably knew wtf I'm taking about*
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Actual conversation the other day.
Me: *drinks diet coke quietly*
Him: Dude diet coke is so much worse for you than regular..
Me: For me it isn't.
Him: No man, that stuff doesn't help anyone lose weight, and it will give you cancer.
Me: Bro you honestly don't know what you're taking about.(tad pretentious but I never asked his opinion on my choice I'm beverage)
Him: Oh and I guess you do? Show me research that proves it helps anyone..
Me: I've lost almost 80lbs. And more importantly I've taken almost every health indicator number like blood sugar and pressure from the "bad" to the "normal". I didnt work out or drink a gallon of water a day..i just lowered my calories, largely by cutting out like 600 calories a day in soda and juices, and just drinking 0 calorie drinks..
Him: *I don't remember specifically but I think he smiled and agreed I probably knew wtf I'm taking about*
remember to always put the burden of proof on THEM if they are making these fanatical claims.0 -
Your religion is woo. Your political candidate is full of derp. Those are examples of offensive comments where the adjective isn't describing the person.Also just to add "woo" and "derp" are describing the concept not the person who uses them
Similar to child development one describes the action and not the child ..how can that be offensive?
Woo and derp are adjectives that cannot be ascribed to people. One wouldn't say "you are woo" or "you are so derp" so taking offence at the use of the word as a concept descriptor is in my opinion grammatically and actually inappropriate
Woo sounds like it's ridiculing non-western beliefs. Derp is a word we'd use as kids to sound like someone with perhaps a learning or speech disability. Kind of like Homer Simpson's "DOH". Maybe it's different in different cultures.
I never see either used anywhere but here, really, and even here really not much back in 2014 when I last posted regularly. Seems like a new insult du jour.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
Your religion is woo. Your political candidate is full of derp. Those are examples of offensive comments.Also just to add "woo" and "derp" are describing the concept not the person who uses them
Similar to child development one describes the action and not the child ..how can that be offensive?
Woo and derp are adjectives that cannot be ascribed to people. One wouldn't say "you are woo" or "you are so derp" so taking offence at the use of the word as a concept descriptor is in my opinion grammatically and actually inappropriate
Neither of which happen on this board...so.......relevance?0 -
tristen_leigh wrote: »A young girl (about 19) in one of my classes told me to "forgive her grumpiness because she is on a detox". Of course I couldn't help myself so I asked what she is detoxing from her body. She went on to tell me that she is a "runner" and she wants to beat her goal so she is cutting out sugar, carbs, caffeine and dairy for 7 days.
I didn't say anything but I can't imagine what my face looked like.
I'd like to think that I'm smiling and nodding when people tell me this craziness... but I'm pretty sure that's not what they're seeing.
I know there are ketogenic runners and they say it works for them, but as a runner I can't imagine trying to run on no carbs.0 -
It depends on the situation. My rule of thumb is, if I overhear the conversation I'm not getting involved. If I'm part of the conversation, I'm not commenting unless what I hear is dangerous or my opinion is asked directly.
Unfortunately, I've got advanced degrees and work in a field of health care research. Not research directly related to nutrition or weight loss, but no one bothers to make that distinction. So, if anything related to health comes up, I'm often the go-to for an expert opinion. When I'm asked, I tell them straightforwardly if what they said works or not and why. I'll argue with the person if they continue to push the woo, which doesn't make me popular, but hey. What else is new?0 -
rainbowbow wrote: »
I usually make a cringe face involuntarily and say nothing unless someone asks me my opinion.
Unless of course the advice is dangerous. But generally i let them fail on their own.
This is my reaction every time my coworker starts a new MLM scam and tries to get everyone in on it.
Please, be my guest if you don't want to succeed. I will kindly stay out of it.0 -
Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
It depends on the context, for me. With something like this I think understanding the real facts is actually helpful and important to people and it's usually possible to explain it without making the person feel like an idiot, so I probably would. (Having the freedom to eat late without worrying about it was very helpful for me, given my schedule, and also is part of why I am not tempted to eat in the evenings, since dinner is late already.) Also, for me and I think many people, learning how it really works (that you don't have to worry about metabolism turning on or off or tricking your system by eating lots of little meals, but that that is about controlling hunger, and so on) really made it seem like a simpler and more controllable thing.
Now, if someone is going on about how they are avoiding gluten because Wheat Belly or that fruit is toxic, I generally won't engage unless it's someone who I think would enjoy the conversation (my same approach as to most political topics too). And I know a variety of people who eat in various styles like paleo (although usually not all that consistently) and don't use woo to justify it, but just say it helps them eat better. I understand that.
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).0 -
Who cares? It's somewhat entertaining. My fiance still holds on to things like you can't eat past a certain time. I slowly work on that, but she gets 90% of it. For others, let results speak for themselves. Who cares if someone really thinks they need to eat eggs and crackers, or Paleo, or low fat. If it works for them, great! Let them come around to seeing your success and if they're interested, you can tell them all about it.0
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RedBeardBruce wrote: »In skeptic circles, "woo" is superstitious nonsense. Anything from ghosts, alien/bigfoot sightings, to homeopathic remedies.
Thanks!0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I wouldn't consider any of that as 'woo'. That's just personal preference and there's nothing wrong with that. You're not stating that any of those things are essential for anybody/everybody to lose weight and you're not ascribing magical powers to them, claiming that eating locally/seasonally cured cancer or diabetes, etc.0 -
People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.0 -
It depends on who I'm talking to. There are people I'm close to that I'll tell them what they are doing is ineffective or a waste of money or dangerous, but if I see a random acquaintance on Facebook talking about how she's having such a hard time doing the Whole 30, I probably won't even bother. I think I finally got my coworker to stop blowing large amounts of cash on diet pills. It took years, but she finally realizes what I've been saying this whole time was true. I heard her repeat to her husband on the phone what I've told her in the past about them. Apparently he was in a supplement store about to buy $120 fat burners.0
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My mother is deep into the woo and has been all my life *sigh*. I still remember when I was a kid and Swedish Bitter was the miracle "drug" of choice. If we had an eye infection, our eyes were rinsed out with a solution of it. Whenever we had a cold, we had to gargle with it. Eventually, I didn't mind the bitterness anymore lol.
Then she got into juicing. I refused veggie juices so she compromised with carrot juices daily. After a few months, my skin actually turned a distinct orange color!! I complained and she adjusted it to half apple/half carrot juice and my skin color returned to normal.
Last year, it was all about chia seeds - but only a certain brand. She was taking like 2 tbsps of seeds with a pitcherful of water every single day. She was bugging me about it so I too ended up buying some and told her I just got a generic brand and was adding 1tsp to my yogurt every morning. Apparently this wasn't "good enough" since a) wrong brand b)it HAD to be put in water. Recently I logged a tsp of chia seeds with my morning yogurt and was not happy when I realized it added 50 calories. OUCH!
This year, she has switched to apple cider vinegar. She swears she has lost weight since drinking water with ACV every morning. I too add ACV to my water - primarily for flavoring. But apparently I am doing it "wrong" since I don't drink a full glassful first thing every morning.
Reason doesn't work so I just smile and nod.0 -
Depends on the people involved, and how open they are to reality. When people start really getting deep into it I often express my experiences that ignore the good parts and place emphasis on the things that didn't change my weight or body composition.
As an example, the most cut and buffed up I ever got was during a period I was drinking beer pretty much daily. It must be the secret nobody knows about!0 -
I hold my tongue unless my opinion is asked for. Then I try to phrase it as nicely as possible without putting down the person trying to convince me of whatever magical weight loss cure they are doing that week. When I tell them about CICO they usually get disappointed and say "that won't work for them" because "their body doesn't work that way".
Although it's really hard to hold my tongue when my work is doing company-wide juice cleanses every few months and even the CEO is trying to convince all the employees to join in for $250 for 3 days. Honestly I feel bad for the people who fall for it.0 -
I belong to a teacher forum, and quite a few people there are trying to lose weight. Last week there was a discussion and a person commented that you HAVE to go low carb and cut out sugar to lose weight. I replied that low carb is not necessary UNLESS you have a medical condition like PCOS or thyroid issues then low carb can help. I also stated that CICO is all it takes to lose weight. There was a woman on the board who tore me a new one! She said I being very judgmental and needed to do a bit of research, that not all people can lose weight easily and that low carb was needed and then she said my "theory" of CICO was flawed.
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.0 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.
Even if you believe your own woo, you're still purposefully spreading it, if you're spreading it. The results to the people possibly believing it are the same - intent isn't magic. Just because you're a victim of false beliefs doesn't justify you pushing them to others, particularly if those false beliefs have consequences. The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.0 -
I see woo peddlers used for people like Dr. Oz or Freelee or the Bulletproof Executive guy, and I think it fits. "Woo peddler," of course, is intended as a negative, as well as being an accurate description.0
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lemurcat12 wrote: »Do I wish they understood the real reason? Sure. Is it really worth the battle if they choose to just stop eating at 9 pm because they think their digestive system clocks out at the end of the day? Nope, especially if it is helping them stick to their plan and improve their health. To me, that's more important than "being right."
I also don't think calling something "woo" is insulting to the person. I actually have a lot of "woo-like" feelings in my approach to eating. I know it doesn't really matter to nutrition or health, but I really love getting produce and meat and eggs from local farms, eating as locally and seasonally as possible, making as much as I reasonably can myself, stuff like that. It helps me eat better and makes me feel good about how I'm cooking and eating which is motivating, even though it's not science based. It makes me feel kind of in touch with nature and the seasons and all that, which is why I call it woo (and don't adhere to it when it would be unhelpful, like on February 2 when nothing is in season and I'm in the mood for non-local fish).
I don't think people using the word "woo" is necessarily meant as an insult all the time, but it has a negative connotation and I think many people would feel insulted (as in, that the user thinks they are gullible or stupid) compared to someone just saying "hey, I don't think that information is correct."
I've seen people referred to as "derpy" and "woo peddlers" just because they have information that is not correct, and that usage seems to indicate that the person is purposefully trying to spread that misinformation. Whereas I think most people who may believe things that are not factually correct are not willfully in denial, but just repeating something they heard from someone or something that they believe to be a credible, trusted source. Using words like "woo" or "derp" in relation to that can put people on the defensive, which then limits the productivity of the conversation. Which is why I personally prefer not to use those words in discussion. YMMV, but I think it's helpful to understand why some people may react strongly to the usage, and how that can influence their perception of the person using the words.
Even if you believe your own woo, you're still purposefully spreading it, if you're spreading it. The results to the people possibly believing it are the same - intent isn't magic. Just because you're a victim of false beliefs doesn't justify you pushing them to others, particularly if those false beliefs have consequences. The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.
Yes, and just because something worked for doesn't mean you should tell everyone they should be doing it too.0 -
The world would be a better place if people would thoroughly research their claims from reputable information before they go handing it out to others.
Or just think about whether they have a reason to believe something is factual or not and be more careful in how you present it. I'm always amazed at how certain people act about things that they can't possibly have a good basis to believe is true.
But then it's more and more clear that people just believe what they want to believe and think others like them believe and seek out media that merely confirms their own beliefs, in all areas of life. I think this is a really negative trend for our society, so I like the idea that in some areas, at least, standards can be applied.0 -
People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.0 -
I belong to a teacher forum, and quite a few people there are trying to lose weight. Last week there was a discussion and a person commented that you HAVE to go low carb and cut out sugar to lose weight. I replied that low carb is not necessary UNLESS you have a medical condition like PCOS or thyroid issues then low carb can help. I also stated that CICO is all it takes to lose weight. There was a woman on the board who tore me a new one! She said I being very judgmental and needed to do a bit of research, that not all people can lose weight easily and that low carb was needed and then she said my "theory" of CICO was flawed.
Can't really reason with a zealot but I certainly would rip them right back even if it's just for the fun of it.
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Wheelhouse15 wrote: »People can believe all the woo they want, but what frustrates me is when people ask me how I've done what I've done and they reject my honest answers while indirectly or outright calling me a liar.
- "How did you get so thin?" I exercise and eat at a calorie deficit. "Oh don't tell me that, I go to the gym and haven't lost a pound!" Are you eating less calories than you burn? "I don't eat much." Oh, okay then.
- "Oh you're not going to eat any cake." Actually, I love cake. I'll have a piece, thanks! "Are you going to vomit it up later?"
- "You count calories? Oh, my life is far too busy for that. I don't have the time to do something like that." I guess my life isn't busy at all then, huh?
The problem is that many people want the results without accepting that it takes work to get there. No, there has to be some secret that only a few people are privy to and it's being hidden from the rest of the world. Many people don't want to accept that they eat too much or aren't active enough. They aren't willing to exercise during the week or keep tabs on their food intake, but they're willing to invest hundreds in miracle pills, creams, and diet plans that accomplish absolutely nothing. You can't have the "beach body" without putting in the time and effort it takes to achieve that goal.
When I get asked how I lost all the weight so fast and I give them similar answers they just tend to look very disappointed. They seem to be hoping I found some secret I could share or some product that performs miracles. People rarely want to hear that's it's a time consuming and often difficult process.
I know that look of disappointment!
I've even had several try to head me off at the pass..."How did you get fit...and don't tell me diet and exercise!" (guess what I tell them?)0
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