Can you change BMR?

smnovosad1

My husband has decided to join me on this weight loss journey, which unfortunately is making it harder. He doesn't believe that weight loss is as "simple" as CICO. He believes that certain foods, i.e. Complex carbs, are harder for the body to digest and therefore the body uses more energy digesting them than it does with simple carbs. So basically he wants to change the kind of food we are eating but not the amount.
He also believes that we need to work on changing our BMRs so we constantly burn more calories. He believes that exercise will accomplish this.
I'm happy about the exercise, but just want to cut calories and monitor them and not worry about if my body is absorbing "all" the calories or if I can now add another 100 cal/day because I changed my BMR. Am I right? What can I tell him? He's a "deep thinker" and always believes that what he reasons out makes sense is correct!

MelaniaTrump

He might be right. For me complex carbs let me feel fuller longer.
Ex: Whole wheat pasta will fill me up for hours, vs white pasta.
The simple carb diet is not popular

ilex70

Over complicating things.

Increased daily exercise = Increased TDEE (Total Daily Energy Expenditure)

Increased muscle mass = Increased BMR (but it is hard to do, takes a long time, doesn't happen while eating in a deficit, and doesn't increase your BMR that much anyway)

Eat less than you burn to lose weight.

Exercise to get fit.

Choose foods that help you stay in deficit while feeling fine; not too hungry. Usually a balance of protein, veggies, and fats, though nothing is off limits.

malibu927

Your BMR changes as you gain/lose weight, as that's the amount of calories your body burns performing basic functions. It sounds like he's wanting to change TDEE with added exercise, but that doesn't affect BMR.

jemhh

I wouldn't worry about his theories. Instead, I would consider whether I liked the food that he was proposing to eat. People try new recipes all the time. Perhaps you could have him try preparing a few new recipes? If you don't like what they contain, add back in a bit of what you prefer.

thankyou4thevenom

BMR is the number of calories you burn just being alive (without exercise) do the only way to change it is by losing (which changes it down) or gaining (which makes it go up) weight. Now weight doesn't necessarily mean fat, you can gain muscle, before someone points that out.

As for CICO not being the complete answer he's right. You've got to think of how satisfying the food you're eating is too. What he's talking about really doesn't have much effect on calorie burn at all. The effect he's talking about is so insignificant it won't cause weight loss.

3dogsrunning

JanetYellen wrote: »

He might be right. For me complex carbs let me feel fuller longer.
Ex: Whole wheat pasta will fill me up for hours, vs white pasta.
The simple carb diet is not popular

Regular pasta is also a complex carb.

MelaniaTrump

So why do I feel so much fuller when I eat wheat pasta? I always said b/c it's a complex carb, which looks like I am wrong. What can I call this difference?
The difference is night and day on fullness and long lasting full happiness.
ooops, always told hubby it was b/c it was a complex carb. oops.
I buy whole wheat pasta.

MelaniaTrump

To original poster @ smnovosad1 what exactly is your husband saying he wants to do when it comes to eating?

ninerbuff

BMR will reduce as one loses weight. Adding muscle increases it slightly, but not as much as every one thinks. Styles of training will too. HIIT and other high intensity workouts require the body to repair at a harder rate which slightly increases BMR. Don't fall for the EPOC myths echoed around the fitness industry.
But as mentioned, TDEE is where the focus should be on and a decent calorie deficit.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Packerjohn

JanetYellen wrote: »

He might be right. For me complex carbs let me feel fuller longer.
Ex: Whole wheat pasta will fill me up for hours, vs white pasta.
The simple carb diet is not popular

That may be but weight gain or loss is based on calorie intake and calorie burn not how one feels.

scolaris

It got covered above...
Womansplain to your husband BMR = height (can't change), age (can't change), gender (expensive & uncomfortable to change), weight (meaning BMR must go down if you are now obese) and a small degree of body composition (that can change slowly, and nudge your number back up, but not enough to make a huge difference like the coach above says).
Now this is just keeping your body alive sleeping, digesting, neurons firing, laying about virtually comatose all day.
Once you get out of bed & walk toward the loo you've entered the realm of TDEE. And that is completely shaped by exercise choices. As a 53 year old woman I have a very modest BMR but when I do a full week of my hiking, dance & lifting routines I can eat like a much younger person! So that's where he will find his joy.
As for food elimination or macro suppression, I'm agnostic. You don't 'have' to do it in a textbook sense -- I certainly don't -- but there are individuals who feel an overall improved health and well being when they limit or eliminate certain things that they find irritating. So you should not be in charge of your husbands food choices. Nor he yours. And neither of you should have to be the personal chef to the other either! At different times our family tried various food restrictions (gluten free for the runners -inflammation- and paleo for the adults) and we still always ate as a family. There were just a few more choices at the table each meal.

Carlos_421

JanetYellen wrote: »

He might be right. For me complex carbs let me feel fuller longer.
Ex: Whole wheat pasta will fill me up for hours, vs white pasta.
The simple carb diet is not popular

Feeling fuller=\=more energy to digest.

smnovosad1

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! Sounds like I may not be as correct as I thought. He is proposing:
Clean eating -- all "whole" foods
HIIT training +\- weights each am to rev the metabolism for the day
Eating at maintenance -- no eating back exercise calories

His thought is our bodies will then have to work really hard to digest our food, so we will only actually get 80-90% of the calories, and we will burn a lot off daily bc of the exercise so we will lose a pound (me) or 2 pounds (him) weekly. Reasonable?

ClosetBayesian

smnovosad1 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! Sounds like I may not be as correct as I thought. He is proposing:
Clean eating -- all "whole" foods
HIIT training +\- weights each am to rev the metabolism for the day
Eating at maintenance -- no eating back exercise calories

His thought is our bodies will then have to work really hard to digest our food, so we will only actually get 80-90% of the calories, and we will burn a lot off daily bc of the exercise so we will lose a pound (me) or 2 pounds (him) weekly. Reasonable?

Weight loss occurs in the kitchen, not the gym. "Clean" eating is not some miracle which will somehow make all this work, and certainly not to the tune of 10% to 20% fewer calories per day.

To lose weight, you have to take in fewer calories than you burn. You could, in theory, not eat back the exercise calories, but many people overestimate how many calories they burn through exercise anyway, so the deficit there is in all likelihood not going to be that much.

VeryKatie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basal_metabolic_rate

Things that will change your BMR:
1) Gaining or losing weight (including muscle) - losing fat will decrease it fairly significantly if you're going from obese to normal weight. Less so if you're going from normal to lower normal. Gaining muscle hardly increases it. Something like 4 calories per lb of extra muscle (as compared to extra fat, I think. Don't quote me there).
2) Getting older (lower)
3) Growing taller (higher)
4) Getting shorter (lower)
5) Maybe things like improving brain function and heart/lung function?

You're right. You only have to do what you suggested to be successful. Of course, his plan would make him successful too, possibly. But not because he's increasing his BMR or RMR. Because he's increasing his TDEE and eating foods that may help make him feel fuller.

Personally, I never notice the difference between whole grain and white grain. None of it makes me feel full. The calories your body burns digesting one over the other is negligible. The lasting "full feeling" may not be - if it helps prevent you from eating more.

Did you know most whole grain foods are marginally higher in calories than white? If you don't change the amount... you'll actually be consuming more calories, not less. You have to change portion size. Maybe increase veggies while decreasing something high calorie that you eat often. Take him to the grocery store and show him whole wheat bread vs white of the same brand. Compare serving size and calories per.

EvgeniZyntx

smnovosad1 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! Sounds like I may not be as correct as I thought. He is proposing:
Clean eating -- all "whole" foods
HIIT training +\- weights each am to rev the metabolism for the day
Eating at maintenance -- no eating back exercise calories

His thought is our bodies will then have to work really hard to digest our food, so we will only actually get 80-90% of the calories, and we will burn a lot off daily bc of the exercise so we will lose a pound (me) or 2 pounds (him) weekly. Reasonable?

If you are not eating back exercise cals, then you are creating your cut via that. It's only going to work for a little while, unless you are doing exercise every single day (you shouldn't) - an hour for him and likely more for you.

Even the hardest to digest food will have a cal reduction of 5% max. Usually bioavailability is 98% or so.
But hey, try it. See how it works - experience is the best teacher.

True HIIT without building up to it will lead to injury. Work up slowly.

(and btw, you meant TDEE and not BMR in your original post. BMR isn't changed by exercise. @VeryKatie the change in BMR with Lean Body Mass (not just muscle) is an increase of 4-9 cals/day or 11 to 20 cals / day in TDEE)

scolaris

Some of his ideas are pure woo. But indulge him. Let him learn for himself. Focus your attention on yourself and make sure you keep yourself in a deficit. I like to eat 'clean' much of the time myself because it is the wholesome, nutritious, delicious old fashioned stuff formerly known as 'food.' ;-)

VeryKatie

EvgeniZyntx wrote: »

smnovosad1 wrote: »

Thanks everyone for the thoughts! Sounds like I may not be as correct as I thought. He is proposing:
Clean eating -- all "whole" foods
HIIT training +\- weights each am to rev the metabolism for the day
Eating at maintenance -- no eating back exercise calories

His thought is our bodies will then have to work really hard to digest our food, so we will only actually get 80-90% of the calories, and we will burn a lot off daily bc of the exercise so we will lose a pound (me) or 2 pounds (him) weekly. Reasonable?

If you are not eating back exercise cals, then you are creating your cut via that. It's only going to work for a little while, unless you are doing exercise every single day (you shouldn't) - an hour for him and likely more for you.

Even the hardest to digest food will have a cal reduction of 5% max. Usually bioavailability is 98% or so.
But hey, try it. See how it works - experience is the best teacher.

True HIIT without building up to it will lead to injury. Work up slowly.

(and btw, you meant TDEE and not BMR in your original post. BMR isn't changed by exercise. @VeryKatie the change in BMR with Lean Body Mass (not just muscle) is an increase of 4-9 cals/day or 11 to 20 cals / day in TDEE)

Cool! It's still not much though, is it... sadz.

I just wanted to add that specifically changing the foods you eat without changing calories/gaining/losing cannot change Basal MR ever since it is a test done only on an empty stomach - i.e. digestion is removed from the equation. Resting MR may change just a tad (test procedures are less strict. The terms are close but not interchangeable). I agree with the above you may mean TDEE.

LifeNewandImproved

I have a completely unsupported by evidence theory that the body isn't able to digest raw foods as efficiently as cooked foods. I have had very moderate success with a 'raw til 4' plan - but even with that, the effect was negligible. Maaaaaybe 100 cals per day. Also sure protein is 'harder' for your body to process than carbs. But again, maybe 100 cals a day difference. I would say 90-95% of the success is CICO.

That said - the best diet is the one you can stick to, since basically what you do to lose the weight, you have to largely continue through maintenance to keep it off. So is he willing to commit to this new lifestyle forever? How much of an objection do you have to what he's proposing food-wise? You could try it for week and see how you both feel and then re-evaluate. Maybe there's a compromise in the middle which makes it more 'sane' for you and yet he feels like he's eating 'clean' still that you can make then.

The only way to change your BMR is either change your weight or change your body composition. Losing fat brings your BMR down. Adding muscle brings it up. But people overestimate how much muscle they can add. I can tell you that even if you were eating at a surplus, as a woman, if you did everything right, and really lifted heavy weights often, you would be LUCKY to gain 2-4 lbs of muscle in a month. And you're not eating at a surplus. So I would dismiss any idea of increasing your BMR out of hand until you're eating enough to fuel muscle gains.

For what it's worth, HIIT plus weights is probably the best workout you could do for weight loss scientifically speaking, if you can stick to it. I personally haaaaaaaaaaate it but if you can learn to at least tolerate it, sure knock yourself out. But again, the best exercise is the one you consistently do.

PAV8888

"safe" weight loss is accomplished by eating 10% to 20% less than your Total Daily Energy Expenditure every day.

If you eat at maintenance you eat at your total daily energy expenditure.

By definition you are eating at a deficit to lose weight and at a surplus to gain weight.

How you accomplish all this is up to you.

Some things are "big" components in the total daily energy expenditure equation, other things are "mouse turds".

CALORIES IN = BMR(RMR) + TEF + Exercise + NEAT + change in body's energy store

BMR (RMR) = basal metabolic rate (resting metabolic rate) often used interchangeably
NEAT = non-exercise activity thermogenesis = spontaneous and deliberate movement that is not captured as purposeful exercise

Exercise is certainly a big component of the equation. And you can burn significantly more calories with enough exercise.

However, exercise is time consuming, carries risks of injuries and most people who go balls to the wall give up. Also, unless you are in good enough shape to accomplish a lot in a short time period, or are willing to invest the time to accomplish more at a lower work rate you are unlikely to burn a huge amount of calories.

But you ARE likely to burn enough calories to make significant progress over a longer period of time as you will see below.

Thermic Effect of food is usually considered to be about 10% of TDEE. HOWEVER, TEF is already implicitly accounted for when we count our calories.

A gram of protein and carbs are not exactly 4 Cal (more like 5.6 Cal and 4.1 Cal respectively) and neither is a gram of fat exactly 9 Cal (more like 9.4 Cal). Yet we round all of them down, which has TEF already covered.

I suppose you could play at the margins by increasing fiber or eating so much protein that it is excreted un-absorbed, or by eating more nuts (since they are incompletely digested).

But this is playing at the margins. You would be better off just eating things that make you feel full longer for the least amount of calories.

If you increase your TEF by 20%... you will have achieved 1% or 2% of your 20% to 10% weight loss deficit. Fun to toy with. But probably NOT where the main effort should be at.

Having said that, aiming for a 250 Cal deficit a day is a perfectly acceptable weight loss plan that will yield close to 25lbs in a year.

And that level of weight loss can be achieve by an extra hour's walk and a couple of smart substitutions... so you don't need to go "all out" in order to lose a little bit of weight... slowly.

Or you can just count the calories... whatever suits ;-)