Muscles!

Medilia

My actual weight is up by a kilo since December.
I have never weighed myself during this part of cycle before because I was always told it messes with results. But my friend thinks it would only affect my water weight which for the first time ever was on point.

It was one of the ones in the nutrition shops where you jump on the special scale and hold onto the bars.
I know it is not 100% accurate. But it is pretty awesome. It measures different parts of your body (How big your thighs and waist are) and the results are spot on every time. I go home and have my friend measure me to check haha.

bspringer544

aaronc171 wrote: »

rabbitjb wrote: »

sijomial wrote: »

Does this mean I have to have been eating in surplus? ?

No it doesn't!! If you weigh more than you did two months ago then you are in a surplus. You must have been weighed as part of the test?
It means you may have gained a kg of muscle (but beware depending on the type of test they aren't always very accurate.

once I put on the muscle it will be easier to lose the fat.

No not really - for some unknown reason body builders seem to think adding a few pounds of muscle turns you into a calorie burning machine!
In reality muscle tissue takes a tiny amount of calories for your body to maintain. The impact of a few kilos extra of muscle is negligible compared to moving a little bit more.

I think he nailed it

Actually, he didn't. Muscle and strength training take up a considerable amount of calories to be maintained and protein synthesis burns fat as muscles grow. Why do you think sprinters and athletes have low body fat and lean muscle mass? For starters muscles are made of glycogen and protein which you get from carbs and of course protein calories. Once the muscles are put under stress you begin to deplete glycogen in the muscles and protein synthesis kicks into high gear to grow the muscle. Your body is using your fat as fuel as this process occurs during your workout. You lose water weight first and then your body taps those fat stores once the glycogen is depleted. Once you start a strength training regiment your body primes the muscles for use and so what will your body crave? More calories... And I mean healthy calories, low GL carbs, protein and mono and poly fats. So therefore you have to adjust your macros for training days so your body can take in those extra calories and utilize them accordingly. Remember once your in a anabolic state (protein synthesis) your muscles are growing and they need those extra calories or the muscles will just eat themselves and you end up skinny fat. Also when your anabolic the body pulls from the fat stores to keep the normal body functions operating in your body because your muscles are busy converting carbs into glycogen and carbs are primarily glucose. So again muscle gain and strength training is crucial to fat loss. But you must also understand these things as well before adjusting your macros for training days. 1) how much glycogen your muscles can store before converting those calories into fat. 2) You should primarily consume a bulk of your carbs after your workout in order to push that protein back into your muscles because your muscle glycogen stores are depleted along with your protein. 3) Do not eat High GL carbs in the mornings because your cortisol levels are high and your insulin sensitivity is at it's highest, those carbs become instant fat. And lastly, focus on strength training exercises like squats, free weights and HIIT cardio that maximize protein synthesis which puts into an anabolic state to hit your fat stores.

Healthy calories, he said...

sijomial

So more than likely you are at a very small surplus - but yes water fluctuations can mask the trend.

The hand held part of the device works by sending a tiny current through your body, measuring the resistance and then making loads of assumptions as to your composition.

Sadly most of them are wildly inaccurate, very badly affected by different hydration levels. Do the test at different times of day, before or after exercise, before or after just a glass of water and your results will very different.

I had some 4 point ones (feet and hands to "zap" whole body) and could get a reasonable trend over months but with wild fluctuations (+/- 3% body fat in the same day!). I've also got some that put me at 30% fat....

Don't put too much credence in the numbers, interesting perhaps but no more than that. Tape measure and photo progress shots are far better - and virtually free. At least your machine does measurements for you I suppose.

bspringer544

Del

Azdak

FunkyTobias wrote: »

aaronc171 wrote: »

Here's some more bro science from an actual physician. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haY8Q72hgI8

Newsflash! Chiropractors aren't "actual physicians". And this one has been legally reprimanded for his quackery.

http://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/berg.shtml

http://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/credeur/medical_board_order.shtml

Your can almost predict the exact pathways these guys will go to find "sources" of "science".

Azdak

Things got sidetracked a bit, but it is perfectly possible for someone--esp a newbie--to gain 1 kg of muscle or even more while in a calorie deficit.

Azdak

stevencloser wrote: »

Because actual science is underrated, I went ahead and looked for the ones about EE during exercise.

3x5 at 70% 1RM: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22401781
Up to 20 kcal for the whole thing.

Single set to failure at different % of 1RM: https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kelly_Ahearn/publication/45630071_Aerobic_Anaerobic_and_Excess_Postexercise_Oxygen_Consumption_Energy_Expenditure_of_Muscular_Endurance_and_Strength_1-Set_of_Bench_Press_to_Muscular_Fatigue/links/09e415086cb12141bd000000.pdf
Highest was 15 kcal for the lowest % of 1RM at over 30 reps.

3 sets each of squats, db rows, deadlift, bench press, lat pulldown, shoulder press, curls and dips:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21904276
unfortunately no full text available and no info on % of 1RM and amount of reps each but at most the expenditure was 507 kcal total which makes an average of 21 kcal per set.

Hey, the bench press study by Scott is MY study.

(Just kidding--it is one of my favorites and I reference it all the time).

AnvilHead

aaronc171 wrote: »

I'll give you this last one on Insulin control written by a man with a PHD. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-muscle-building-messenger-complete-guide-to-insulin.html

LOL. That article looks like it came from somebody with a PhD in supplement sales (well, it did come from bb.com, after all). How about instead we refer to an article about insulin which is scientific and has links to actual peer-reviewed studies?: http://weightology.net/weightologyweekly/index.php/free-content/free-content/volume-1-issue-7-insulin-and-thinking-better/insulin-an-undeserved-bad-reputation/

Medilia

So I spoke with my friends again today and after trying to deter me by saying "Don't worry about the science, we'll look after you."
They finally told me the science... and then dumbed it down for me.
The way my PT/Mentor/Friend has explained it is essentially: I can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it's just it will happen really slowly on both fronts. This is good because it is manageable. I will most likely lose the fat before I gain all the muscle I want. Once we get to that point we will focus on just building muscle.

He said because a lot of muscle advice comes from body builders it is often three stages, stage one which is their pre-shedding and bulking where they just work on staying fit, the fat shedding stage, the muscle gain phase. But this is not sustainable hence why they cycle through it. They will be ripped with low body fat for a few weeks and then pile it back on. Since I am not looking to be a body builder this isn't what I want to do. Plus unsustainable.

The other great thing is, our bodies if properly fueled will adapt to anything. Since I am eating a high protein diet I am giving my body the source to build muscle. I am then lifting heavier and heavier weights, my body in response is going "Oh, I better get stronger because this will kill me otherwise."

While my increase in muscle is probably a newbie gain there is no reason that if I continue to look after my body I can't be eating at a deficit or around maintenance and building small amounts of muscle.

Having said that, I should really be calorie counting to see where I am. But I gave up today. I had my shake, did a 24KM mountain bike ride. Then went to the pub where we had post-ride chips. Then when to sword practice and fought a few rounds. Was taken to another pub for more chips. Defenitely not a typical day.

CollieFit

aaronc171 wrote: »

Here's some more bro science from an actual physician. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haY8Q72hgI8

So here is a doctor who says don't exercise, don't reduce calories, but avoid stressful people and situations and sleep more. And he calls this a "high level strategy" to lose belly fat. Erm.......

CollieFit

FunkyTobias wrote: »

aaronc171 wrote: »

Here's some more bro science from an actual physician. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haY8Q72hgI8

Newsflash! Chiropractors aren't "actual physicians". And this one has been legally reprimanded for his quackery.

http://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/berg.shtml

http://www.casewatch.org/board/chiro/credeur/medical_board_order.shtml

Oh wow!!!!

stevencloser

Medilia wrote: »

So I spoke with my friends again today and after trying to deter me by saying "Don't worry about the science, we'll look after you."
They finally told me the science... and then dumbed it down for me.
The way my PT/Mentor/Friend has explained it is essentially: I can gain muscle and lose fat at the same time, it's just it will happen really slowly on both fronts. This is good because it is manageable. I will most likely lose the fat before I gain all the muscle I want. Once we get to that point we will focus on just building muscle.

He said because a lot of muscle advice comes from body builders it is often three stages, stage one which is their pre-shedding and bulking where they just work on staying fit, the fat shedding stage, the muscle gain phase. But this is not sustainable hence why they cycle through it. They will be ripped with low body fat for a few weeks and then pile it back on. Since I am not looking to be a body builder this isn't what I want to do. Plus unsustainable.

The other great thing is, our bodies if properly fueled will adapt to anything. Since I am eating a high protein diet I am giving my body the source to build muscle. I am then lifting heavier and heavier weights, my body in response is going "Oh, I better get stronger because this will kill me otherwise."

While my increase in muscle is probably a newbie gain there is no reason that if I continue to look after my body I can't be eating at a deficit or around maintenance and building small amounts of muscle.

Having said that, I should really be calorie counting to see where I am. But I gave up today. I had my shake, did a 24KM mountain bike ride. Then went to the pub where we had post-ride chips. Then when to sword practice and fought a few rounds. Was taken to another pub for more chips. Defenitely not a typical day.

That's about it, yeah. Good to see your friends know their stuff.

One thing though, bodybuilders can sustain pretty low bodyfat year round, just the extremely low ones + dehydration for contests should not be kept for more than a few days.