Can You Lose Fat and Gain Muscle Simultaneously?

Wetcoaster

Interesting study to read.....


http://sciencedrivennutrition.com/lose-fat-and-gain-muscle/




The Wrap Up

The CICO model only really accounts for total body mass and predicts overall changes in the mass of a system. The body is more than a bomb calorimeter, it is dynamic and responds to signals and can change the masses of different “compartments” in accordance with the signals.

By manipulating the signals going into the system through proper diet and exercise it is indeed possible to simultaneously increase lean mass while reducing fat mass. It appears that this phenomenon may be more robust in untrained individuals than trained individuals, yet based on the studies from the Antonio lab it appears possible in trained populations as well.

stevencloser

Yep. But *disclaimer: these processes are each slower than if you concentrated on one of the two.

senecarr

Yes, you can do both, but it is harder.

The author's claim of

I like to compare the CICO model with Newtonian Physics… it is accurate and describes gravity for a majority of cases but it is not complete. We need Einstein’s theories of relativity to describe the enormously large* and fast and we need quantum theory for the incredibly small.

I believe the CICO model breaks down in certain situations.

One such area where it breaks down is for anabolism and catabolism to be occurring simultaneously in different “compartments” of the body.

The CICO model essentially treats the body as a bomb calorimeter and an isolated system immune to perturbations. This is inaccurate. The body is not simply a bomb calorimeter, nor is it an isolated system.

The body is dynamic and responds to both internal and external stimuli (Figure 1).

is wrong. The laws of thermodynamics apply to all systems in the universe, no matter how complex or simple, closed (isolated) or open. When you are building muscle, you're technically increasing order (removing entropy) from the system, so yes, extra energy has to come from somewhere. At that point, predicting scale loses by using the rough 3500 kCal / pound rule will become even rougher an approximation.

senecarr

An interesting read is:
http://bayesianbodybuilding.com/gain-muscle-and-lose-fat-at-the-same-time/

Wetcoaster

Another good read

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/adding-muscle-while-losing-fat-qa.html/

RoxieDawn

I have read the article directly above me in the past. Actually when I first started the muscle/fat loss scenario.

And starting where I did, I don't believe it happens at the same time, I think the body uses the energy and decides for itself what it will do. For example, let's take a small person that has never been over weight or over fat for that matter and that tries to build muscle and try to lean out further at the same time, he/she may not already have fat cells readily available to store, it has to build them. Same for muscle cells.

If a person was at one point lets say was over fat but their fat cells are now depleted though weight loss, well the body does not have to make new cells. But in order to build muscle it must start with going through all the stages it needs to increase muscle size (and this is for an untrained person)

An experienced lifter already has built at one point all the stages it needed to in order to build muscle and when trying to attempt to rebuild (let's say after taking off lifting for years) and lean out body fat, it skips a step no longer needed to build additional muscle cells therefore the recomp, the energy you supply the body with at any given time or day, decides how and what it will feed or discard such as fat loss..

I am not a technical writer and pretty much lay it out as simple as possible, but I recomped last year for a very long time and the transition from muscle gain to fat loss tapers off just like newbie gainz do. Hence frustration unless you use recomp as a maintenance tool only (not really trying to build much or loose much fat).

Wetcoaster

A new study from Stuart Phillips, professor, Department of Kinesiology at McMaster University (and protein guru)

Thoughts?


http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160127132741.htm



Losing fat while gaining muscle: Scientists close in on 'holy grail' of diet and exercise



Researchers at McMaster University have uncovered significant new evidence in the quest for the elusive goal of gaining muscle and losing fat, an oft-debated problem for those trying to manage their weight, control their calories and balance their protein consumption.

Scientists have found that it is possible to achieve both, and quickly, but it isn't easy.

For the study, 40 young men underwent a month of hard exercise while cutting dietary energy they would normally require by 40 per cent of what they would normally require.

"It was a gruelling affair," says Stuart Phillips, a professor in the Department of Kinesiology at McMaster and senior investigator on the study. "These guys were in rough shape, but that was part of the plan. We wanted to see how quickly we could get them into shape: lose some fat, but still retain their muscle and improve their strength and fitness," he says.

The researchers divided their subjects into two groups. Both groups went on a low calorie diet, one with higher levels of protein than the other. The higher-protein group experienced muscle gains -- about 2.5 pounds -- despite consuming insufficient energy, while the lower protein group did not add muscle.

The lower-protein group at least had the consolation of not losing muscle, which is a predictable outcome of cutting calories and not working out, say researchers.

"Exercise, particularly lifting weights, provides a signal for muscle to be retained even when you're in a big calorie deficit," says Phillips.

Researchers were intrigued because the high-protein group also lost more body fat.

"We expected the muscle retention" said Phillips, "but were a little surprised by the amount of additional fat loss in the higher protein consuming group."

The results showed that the high-protein group lost about 10.5 pounds and the low protein group only eight pounds. All of the participants, by virtue of the demanding six-days-a-week exercise routines, got stronger, fitter, and generally were in much better shape.

However, researchers caution this regimen is not for everyone.

"We designed this program for overweight young men, although I'm sure it would work for young women too, to get fitter, stronger, and to lose weight fast. It's a tough program and not something that's sustainable or for those looking for quick and easy fix," says Phillips. "We controlled their diets, we supervised the exercise, and we really kept these guys under our 'scientific' thumb for the four weeks the participants were in the study."

Phillips and his team hope to conduct a follow-up study on women and also explore a different approach that he says will be "a little easier and much more sustainable."

The study was published in the latest issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Story Source:

The above post is reprinted from materials provided by McMaster University. Note: Materials may be edited for content and length.

Journal Reference:

Thomas M Longland, Sara Y Oikawa, Cameron J Mitchell, Michaela C Devries, and Stuart M Phillips. Higher compared with lower dietary protein during an energy deficit combined with intense exercise promotes greater lean mass gain and fat mass loss: a randomized trial. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, January 2016 DOI: 10.3945/ajcn.115.119339

DaddieCat

It seems to me that this states overweight, young, untrained males accomplished this feat. This is the holy grail for muscle gain territory.... beginner gains and plenty to fuel muscle growth. I don't really think that was ever doubted.

I've never seen anyone say that you couldn't accomplish both under those conditions... although I've seen many times the fact that it will taper off and become more difficult to do both as time progresses. It's usually at that time that advice is given to focus on one or the other.

Adah_m

I'd like to see a lot more studies centered on women, because it's interesting to know it's doable for a young overweight untrained male. How about a 26 year old overweight untrained female? I know usually our gains are smaller due to less testosterone but I'd like to know more about how women react to heavy strength training in a deficit with a clean diet focused on protein.