Squating below parallel- stronglifts 5x5
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singingflutelady wrote: »@rabbitjb @SonyaCele @juliewatkin I don't squat atg I only go to parallel because of butt wink below that, mobility and having super long femurs. I am working on mobility and butt wink but is just to parallel squats OK? I thought parallel was as low as needed. Oh I am doing an intermediate program but did do SL before it.
I share the long femur issue. I can squat quite low without difficulty but because of the length of my femurs it feels like I travel through time zones and I also get forward lean in order to keep the bar over the centre of my body. I never thought I would envy people with short legs.0 -
juliewatkin wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »@rabbitjb @SonyaCele @juliewatkin I don't squat atg I only go to parallel because of butt wink below that, mobility and having super long femurs. I am working on mobility and butt wink but is just to parallel squats OK? I thought parallel was as low as needed. Oh I am doing an intermediate program but did do SL before it.
I share the long femur issue. I can squat quite low without difficulty but because of the length of my femurs it feels like I travel through time zones and I also get forward lean in order to keep the bar over the centre of my body. I never thought I would envy people with short legs.
I kinda figured out that I am trying to stop the forward lean but I did a few to try it out and got more depth when I let myself lean more forward than I thought was "normal". It doesn't help I low bar that has more of a forward lean than high bar anyways. I used to do high bar but a bro corrected me one day saying I was doing low bar form while doing it so I switched. The forward lean was what he was referring to so I always thought after that that it was wrong! I also squat wider than shorties
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For all the kind people who chimed in with advice, I'm extremely grateful! As an update, I'd be willing to say the weight plus my own body weight was too high by chance. A little over 24 hours after my first training session and my body is completely wrecked lol. I've spent years as an athlete and have spent many painful recovery days really stiff and sore but they've got nothing on this. My legs actually gave out on me earlier and I had to catch myself. My quads are by far the worst but my hammies, hips, glutes, and calves aren't happy either. I've been massaging them with icy hot and I'm about to go for the heating pad. Anyone have any tips for faster recovery/pain relief? Will I get this sore after every session or is this a newbie thing?0
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julie_broadhead wrote: »I am 3 and a half months post pregnancy and I just started lifting again too. I used to power lift and Olympic lift pre pregnancy. Right now I am not comfortable adding weight to my squats because they just don't feel the same! My pelvic bone and hips feel all out of whack, which gives me balance issues I didn't have before. I'm hyper mobile right now. When I asked my doc about it, she reminded me that I still have a ton of relaxin in my system and that I shouldn't be doing weighted squats below parallel for at least 9 months.
Please run this strong lifts program past your doc at some point.
Good point about the relaxin, we can probably use it for some pretty sweet flexibility gains, but I'm not so concerned about it with lifting. I'm a week out from 5 months pp and I don't expect gains so big in the next four months that I'll be lifting weight heavy enough to move things around, and I'm also seeing a chiropractor for some back issues who can keep an eye on my hips and shoulders for me too. In all honesty I'm hoping that fat loss will reduce the body weight I'm lifting while I increase the weights, which means I wouldn't be lifting all that much more than the body weight I'm carrying around now. Honestly, besides being a little slow to get my energy levels back I feel completely back to normal except for the 40 lbs of baby weight still hanging around.0 -
I have mobility issues with hip flexors and my trainer has given me alot of stretches to improve my range of motion. I'm tall with long femers and I just can't go below parallel. His advice is to work on flexiblity and range of motion will improve and to keep weights lighter. I front squat on to a bench rather than back squat. Goblet squats have also helped.0
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I had my first real squat workout today after incorporating some form tweaks from that video and I am very pleased! I got a few extra inches in depth on all my sets and was even able to break parallel up to 170! ( I only broke it up to 135 before and went just to parallel after that). I did my 5x5 at 170. ( I'm doing Texas method not SL but today was 5x5 at 90% of 5rm day).0
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#1- I love Alan Thrall.
#2-I have more range and comfort once I switched to low bar.
#3-Warming up with goblet squats really help when its time to start the set.
I starting lifting at about 6.5 mo PP. Definitely needed to improve balance and stayed at the empty bar for quite a few of the first work outs.
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For all the kind people who chimed in with advice, I'm extremely grateful! As an update, I'd be willing to say the weight plus my own body weight was too high by chance. A little over 24 hours after my first training session and my body is completely wrecked lol. I've spent years as an athlete and have spent many painful recovery days really stiff and sore but they've got nothing on this. My legs actually gave out on me earlier and I had to catch myself. My quads are by far the worst but my hammies, hips, glutes, and calves aren't happy either. I've been massaging them with icy hot and I'm about to go for the heating pad. Anyone have any tips for faster recovery/pain relief? Will I get this sore after every session or is this a newbie thing?
the pain is a newbie thing, just keep walking and moving around , it will get better. If you can do some assisted squats believe it or not that will help. Tie a rope around a tree or over a tree branch and hold it for assistance as you sit back into a squat and move those muscles all around. the more you move and get blood flowing to them, the better they will feel.0 -
Also, my gym doesn't have plates smaller than 2.5 and I found adding 5 lbs. with upper body lifts to be too much so I bought my own 1.25 lb. plates from Amazon, so I could increase by 2.5 lbs. instead of 5 if I felt the 5 lb. increase was too much.
A cheaper option would be to buy wrist/ankle weights. I got a pair of 2.5-lb. weights that each have two sandbags. I remove on of the sandbags from each and have 1.25-lb weights. Bought them from Amazon.0 -
For all the kind people who chimed in with advice, I'm extremely grateful! As an update, I'd be willing to say the weight plus my own body weight was too high by chance. A little over 24 hours after my first training session and my body is completely wrecked lol. I've spent years as an athlete and have spent many painful recovery days really stiff and sore but they've got nothing on this. My legs actually gave out on me earlier and I had to catch myself. My quads are by far the worst but my hammies, hips, glutes, and calves aren't happy either. I've been massaging them with icy hot and I'm about to go for the heating pad. Anyone have any tips for faster recovery/pain relief? Will I get this sore after every session or is this a newbie thing?
the pain is a newbie thing, just keep walking and moving around , it will get better. If you can do some assisted squats believe it or not that will help. Tie a rope around a tree or over a tree branch and hold it for assistance as you sit back into a squat and move those muscles all around. the more you move and get blood flowing to them, the better they will feel.
I saw one of the powerlifters do this today with a heavy resistance band around the rack but he wasn't holding on to anything. It looked like a good warm up0 -
Oh I own 8x0.5 lb fractional plates I got from Amazon for $30. I got them 2 weeks ago and already have helped my ohp. I suck at it because of horrible mobility. I could do one weight 1x7, 5x5 but only 2x4, 3x3 when I added 5 lbs and was stuck for weeks. On my 5x5 day I did it with 3lbs added and on my 1x5 max day I was able to hit 5 at the 5 lbs added and added an additional 2 lbs and got 4 reps. Ohp moves up so slowly for me so this was awesome.0
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Look up hip mobility stretches/ exercises for your squatting issues. Keep weight where its at until you feel confident in your form. Do the same for your shoulders. A helpful cue i use is to keep forearms perpendicular to the floor when gripping the bar on squats. Gripping too narrow will get you some nasty tennis elbow.0
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Just wanted to give everyone an update! My legs were wrecked. COMPLETELY wrecked, for almost a full week after my first squat workout. For the days that I was almost too sore to move at all I swam laps in the pool and hit up the spa for some sore muscle relief- but that recovery was brutal. I hope I never get that sore again. If anyone has more tips about soreness, please send them my way. My legs were buckling/collapsing when I walked too fast lol.
Once I got some recovery I started practicing with my broom, haha. I wanted to focus on how to center the bar over my feet and how it felt to push my knees out and get my legs away from my belly so I could drop deeper. I also started goblin squats, (or a variation where I hold my 17 lb baby lol). Today I lifted again and just repeated the same workout from before to see how I did.
Main differences- I warmed up before ALL my lifts with progressively heavier dumbbells. I did 5x5 with light weights to warm up for everything (5x5 rows with 5lb, 10lb, 15, et cetera, 5x5 bench press with 10 lb, 20 lb, 25, 30, et cetera.) I warmed up with goblin squats in progressively higher weights and then did 5x5 with a 30 lb dumbbell. When I finally got to my workout I was able to do all 5 sets BELOW PARALLEL! WOOT!
I do still struggle with balance. I almost tipped over a few times on my last set and my bar wobbles quite a bit. I also pause too long at the bottom when I start getting tired and have a hard time making it back up in my last two sets. I really was proud though to get that squat nice and low!
P.S.- I payed close attention to the other lifters in my gym and only one other one was squatting deeper than 90 degrees. About 75% weren't even going that low, so, I don't know if they're doing it on purpose but yeah. Also, I had a guy try to push me toward the squat machine thingy because it would be "easier" and I was all like "I don't want easier. Easier doesn't make you stronger" and that shut him up, lol. I do still get plenty of weird looks though being a girl, and a chubby mama no less, being on that side of the gym, but they'll see. 0 -
Don't worry, I can't squat below parallel, either. Totally killed my twerking career.0
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Sometimes it can be easier to squat with more weight
I have this 'problem', anything below 30 kg I cannot squat properly. But 30 kg and above and I can get to below parallel.
Just to add I have a friend who works for the NHS doing sports recovery or something similarly titled. Whatever his job title, he's quite knowledgeable on exercise type stuff. His comments on squat were that saying you have to squat below parallel is an overly simplistic approach to differing bodies. It's more a case of different bodies have different ranges of motion and some people's lower limit is below parallel and others is parallel.0 -
are you just resting the bar fully on your back? I actually hold the bar, and support as much of it as i can with my arms shoulder lats etc strength . i'm sure i'm taking off 50-75 pounds of pressure or more directly off where it rests on my back just by supporting it with my upper body. i'm not just using my arms to balance the bar, i'm supporting the bar and pressing up
absolutely incorrect, this is the path to elbow and shoulder problems when you squat heavy. all of the weight should be supported by the back musculature and very little on the elbow and shoulder joints. if you are trying to push/hold the bar up with your hands it is wrong.
you should almost be pulling the bar harder into your back, which is the opposite, though not everyone needs this cue.
OP needs to work on properly flexing the back musculature to create a stable place for the bar to sit. if there is not enough musculature then the use of a towel, hoodie, or bar pad is warranted.
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soreness stops occurring the more regularly you squat. keep squatting, youll get less sore every time.0
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Get and read Starting Strength and Google Mark Rippetoe videos. I learned important things about squat form not covered on the SteongLifts website.0
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So after changing my hand position and a few minor tweaks from that video with sexy quad muscles I have had to move the safety down a notch below where it suggests they should be for squats as I was hitting them! Who knew minor tweaks would help so much!0
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If your back hurts from the bar, then adjust the position so it is in the right spot. Go to a lower weight and find the right spot. You have to really tighten your back muscles to create a platform for the bar and you don't want it sitting directly on bone. I thought even 200lb was heavy for my back when I was younger and when I started lifting again recently, and a bit of education and finding the right spot resolved that with no problem even at 280lb. And it wasn't because I built huge muscles on my back as I've been losing weight the entire time. My wife used to complain about the bar hurting, but with enough trying she learned how to rack the bar properly.
If your wrists are hurting, stop using them to support the bar. If you are using a low bar squat, then put your thumbs over the bar, keep your wrists straight, and push your elbows back and pin the bar to your back so it doesn't move. You don't need to support the bar with your wrists.
Mark Rippetoe has a good video on bar position -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0 0 -
are you just resting the bar fully on your back? I actually hold the bar, and support as much of it as i can with my arms shoulder lats etc strength . i'm sure i'm taking off 50-75 pounds of pressure or more directly off where it rests on my back just by supporting it with my upper body. i'm not just using my arms to balance the bar, i'm supporting the bar and pressing up
absolutely incorrect, this is the path to elbow and shoulder problems when you squat heavy. all of the weight should be supported by the back musculature and very little on the elbow and shoulder joints. if you are trying to push/hold the bar up with your hands it is wrong.
you should almost be pulling the bar harder into your back, which is the opposite, though not everyone needs this cue.
OP needs to work on properly flexing the back musculature to create a stable place for the bar to sit. if there is not enough musculature then the use of a towel, hoodie, or bar pad is warranted.
riiiight.... squatting is a full body workout, every single muscle should be fully engaged and in tuned in with the bar. When im balancing hundreds of pounds on my back , there is no way there wont be pressure on my elbows and shoulder joints. There is pressure on every single joint in my body. Im' not sure what kinda squats you are doing, but i'm not pulling that bar into my back when its already heavy enough. i'm helping push it up with every muscle in my body including my arms. that doesn't mean my back isn't holding the majority of weight, it is. but a fully engaged body , including the arms, shoulders lats etc, is what makes it a full body exercise and it will be less pressure on your back when the other muscles kick in0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »For all the kind people who chimed in with advice, I'm extremely grateful! As an update, I'd be willing to say the weight plus my own body weight was too high by chance. A little over 24 hours after my first training session and my body is completely wrecked lol. I've spent years as an athlete and have spent many painful recovery days really stiff and sore but they've got nothing on this. My legs actually gave out on me earlier and I had to catch myself. My quads are by far the worst but my hammies, hips, glutes, and calves aren't happy either. I've been massaging them with icy hot and I'm about to go for the heating pad. Anyone have any tips for faster recovery/pain relief? Will I get this sore after every session or is this a newbie thing?
the pain is a newbie thing, just keep walking and moving around , it will get better. If you can do some assisted squats believe it or not that will help. Tie a rope around a tree or over a tree branch and hold it for assistance as you sit back into a squat and move those muscles all around. the more you move and get blood flowing to them, the better they will feel.
I saw one of the powerlifters do this today with a heavy resistance band around the rack but he wasn't holding on to anything. It looked like a good warm up
resistance bands are a great warm up, i use them all the time. Power lifters also use them to increase or decrease resistance to their weighted movements. i use them combined with weights for a lot of different training things.0 -
Get and read Starting Strength and Google Mark Rippetoe videos. I learned important things about squat form not covered on the SteongLifts website.
I will definitely try this!
Also, regarding the bar digging into your back- I saw a guy struggling with the bar digging into his back today and another guy offered him a weird little device that sat between the bar and back. It didn't look like a pad or cushion. I'm going to look it up now. I haven't had any problems with the bar but it's not very heavy right now lol. My problems are my shoulders hurting from reaching behind me to hold it.
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This is the thing I saw the guy in the gym using! Seriously, the guy in this pic is carrying that bar SUPER high. Like, I would be afraid to hurt my neck with it up there. I'm holding it way lower, like 8 inches down from there at least, and more across my shoulder blades. I didn't realize you could keep it up that high. I guess you would need to lean forward less to keep your weight over your feet, but I think it would still be uncomfortable. I don't have the traps to support any weight up there lol, but I do in fact have nice meaty shoulders!
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I've found getting under the bar and then shrugging your shoulders up and driving up into the bar helps me to balance the bar properly. Can anyone confirm if I'm doing this correctly or not please?0
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are you just resting the bar fully on your back? I actually hold the bar, and support as much of it as i can with my arms shoulder lats etc strength . i'm sure i'm taking off 50-75 pounds of pressure or more directly off where it rests on my back just by supporting it with my upper body. i'm not just using my arms to balance the bar, i'm supporting the bar and pressing up
absolutely incorrect, this is the path to elbow and shoulder problems when you squat heavy. all of the weight should be supported by the back musculature and very little on the elbow and shoulder joints. if you are trying to push/hold the bar up with your hands it is wrong.
you should almost be pulling the bar harder into your back, which is the opposite, though not everyone needs this cue.
OP needs to work on properly flexing the back musculature to create a stable place for the bar to sit. if there is not enough musculature then the use of a towel, hoodie, or bar pad is warranted.
riiiight.... squatting is a full body workout, every single muscle should be fully engaged and in tuned in with the bar. When im balancing hundreds of pounds on my back , there is no way there wont be pressure on my elbows and shoulder joints. There is pressure on every single joint in my body. Im' not sure what kinda squats you are doing, but i'm not pulling that bar into my back when its already heavy enough. i'm helping push it up with every muscle in my body including my arms. that doesn't mean my back isn't holding the majority of weight, it is. but a fully engaged body , including the arms, shoulders lats etc, is what makes it a full body exercise and it will be less pressure on your back when the other muscles kick in
I think Allan Thrall suggested pushing with the legs while pulling yourself up with the bar (as if you are bending it over your back) so that there is less lean. Maybe that is more for beginners who are lifting less weight. I know it sounds painful, but it works. I think the back muscles may engage more giving a bit more cushion.0 -
Just discovered something helpful for my long-femured friends. I was researching the difference between high and low bar squats. (It turns out my bar is too low on my back, hence the shoulder pain, but that's besides the point...) According to this cool science-y article, people with long femurs will struggle more with high bar squats because it elongates the torso and requires more forward knee travel to keep the weight centered. Low bar squats don't require as much knee travel and rely more on hip leverage.
Also, I didn't realize how many factors are at play when finding your ultimate squat position, but a great deal is going to rely on your body. I think I may alternate between high bar, low bar, and front bar to work different muscles, but you even change how you train depending on how wide your stance is. This is cool stuff.
"An intelligent coach, or an intelligent lifter who self-coaches, will consider all of the variables that are part of the equation when optimizing technique for a given individual. These variables include stance width, foot position, bar position, knee travel, and hip abduction."
powerliftingtowin.com/high-bar-vs-low-bar-squats/0 -
This is the thing I saw the guy in the gym using! Seriously, the guy in this pic is carrying that bar SUPER high. Like, I would be afraid to hurt my neck with it up there. I'm holding it way lower, like 8 inches down from there at least, and more across my shoulder blades. I didn't realize you could keep it up that high. I guess you would need to lean forward less to keep your weight over your feet, but I think it would still be uncomfortable. I don't have the traps to support any weight up there lol, but I do in fact have nice meaty shoulders!
Ouch!0 -
nordlead2005 wrote: »If your wrists are hurting, stop using them to support the bar. If you are using a low bar squat, then put your thumbs over the bar, keep your wrists straight, and push your elbows back and pin the bar to your back so it doesn't move. You don't need to support the bar with your wrists.
Mark Rippetoe has a good video on bar position -https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2tyOLvArw0
Yep I was pretty much doing everything badly. Will try again with less weight and see if I can get all the weight away from the spine/center mass and out.
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I personally cannot balance properly during squats unless I have weight on the bar. It helps me stabilize my core and keep my back straight. Also in order to do comfortable below parallel squats I have the to keep my feet at or just past shoulder width without too much toe deflection. In the past I've blown out my hip going heavy with too wide of a stance. Id play around with different foot placements until you find something that works for you. We're all built differently and have to do things in different ways.0
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