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Meat Eater, Vegetarian or Vegan?
Replies
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aadtamhankar wrote: »A balanced vegan diet is the best diet. Why?
1. Cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and coronary artery disease rates are RIDICULOUSLY LOW in VEGANS
2. Increased longevity (6-10 years longer
3. High fiber= less constipation
4. ONLY sustainable diet w/ growing population and pollution
5. Conserves 600 gallons of water a DAY
6. Prevents animal TORTURE and abuse (Would you torture & kill your dog? No? Guess what, pigs are shown to be just as smart and social as dogs.)
7. Clear arteries=increased bloodflow= better SEXUAL PERFORMANCE
8. Helps prevent cancer bc green leafy vegetables = alkaline body= unfavorable to cancerous tumors
9. Lowers blood pressure and cholesterol
Most of all- delicious!! Encourages creativity with food and experimentation
Hmu if you want to learn more or watch Forks Over Knives and Earthlings (documentaries)
What a bizarre list. Are you assuming everyone that isn't vegan is a carnivore?0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Yes, but you did not specify that in your previous post. As she pointed out, a lot of people do not eat a nutritious diet as it is. I'm sure there are enough people out there that start off with donuts/pastries/cereal at breakfast, followed by fast food (burgers, sandwiches) at lunch, and then more restaurant food (like steak, more burgers, etc.) at dinner. I'm reasonably certain that the average person (especially in the U.S.) is not chowing down on a balanced, varied diet.aadtamhankar wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »
I appreciate the picture
Everyone should definitely do their own research way, hence I recommended the documentaries. And I agree that the acidic body is still being researched, but I'm hesitant to completely dismiss it bc there are some doctors who support it.
Although the cancer link is pretty undisputed, especially regarding red and processed meat. Bacon is a class 1 carcinogen now.
Everyone should do their research, however documentaries do not accomplish that goal. Documentaries are biased art that proceed to convince you of their argument by skewing the data. So, yes...do your research.
Any diet can be healthy. Any diet can be unhealthy.
I just recommend documentaries bc they present a lot of info with less effort on the part of the viewer. Not everyone has the time to read abstracts on Pubmed, though this is probably ideal.
I have to disagree with you that every diet can be healthy. A diet of processed meat and sugary donuts really can't be healthy. In fact the obesity rares in this country show that the majority of Americans don't eat a healthy diet.
Nice straw man. A diet that is varied and also includes processed meat and sugar donuts can be healthy.
It's pretty obvious that she was using diet in the broader sense, considering that this thread is *specifically* on vegan, vegetarian, and ominvorous diets. Why would she even have to caveat, "I am not talking about Cooter McGillicutty's Funyuns and grape drink diet"? It is a moot point anyway, because all three diets can encompass donuts, Funyuns and grape drink, candy, and many other obesity-inducing foods. She called him out an a strawman logical fallacy, now I'm calling you out on a red herring logical fallacy. The bad eating habits of the average person are not relevant to the overall ideal of the three diets under discussion.
In for Oreos are vegan comments.0 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »A balanced vegan diet is the best diet. Why?
1. Cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and coronary artery disease rates are RIDICULOUSLY LOW in VEGANS
2. Increased longevity (6-10 years longer
3. High fiber= less constipation
4. ONLY sustainable diet w/ growing population and pollution
5. Conserves 600 gallons of water a DAY
6. Prevents animal TORTURE and abuse (Would you torture & kill your dog? No? Guess what, pigs are shown to be just as smart and social as dogs.)
7. Clear arteries=increased bloodflow= better SEXUAL PERFORMANCE
8. Helps prevent cancer bc green leafy vegetables = alkaline body= unfavorable to cancerous tumors
9. Lowers blood pressure and cholesterol
Most of all- delicious!! Encourages creativity with food and experimentation
Hmu if you want to learn more or watch Forks Over Knives and Earthlings (documentaries)
What a bizarre list. Are you assuming everyone that isn't vegan is a carnivore?
Not sure why he's worried. According to his list carnivores went extinct already from in ability to reproduce and sustain a population.1 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Yes, but you did not specify that in your previous post. As she pointed out, a lot of people do not eat a nutritious diet as it is. I'm sure there are enough people out there that start off with donuts/pastries/cereal at breakfast, followed by fast food (burgers, sandwiches) at lunch, and then more restaurant food (like steak, more burgers, etc.) at dinner. I'm reasonably certain that the average person (especially in the U.S.) is not chowing down on a balanced, varied diet.aadtamhankar wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »
I appreciate the picture
Everyone should definitely do their own research way, hence I recommended the documentaries. And I agree that the acidic body is still being researched, but I'm hesitant to completely dismiss it bc there are some doctors who support it.
Although the cancer link is pretty undisputed, especially regarding red and processed meat. Bacon is a class 1 carcinogen now.
Everyone should do their research, however documentaries do not accomplish that goal. Documentaries are biased art that proceed to convince you of their argument by skewing the data. So, yes...do your research.
Any diet can be healthy. Any diet can be unhealthy.
I just recommend documentaries bc they present a lot of info with less effort on the part of the viewer. Not everyone has the time to read abstracts on Pubmed, though this is probably ideal.
I have to disagree with you that every diet can be healthy. A diet of processed meat and sugary donuts really can't be healthy. In fact the obesity rares in this country show that the majority of Americans don't eat a healthy diet.
Nice straw man. A diet that is varied and also includes processed meat and sugar donuts can be healthy.
She said all diets can be nutritious or not. In the context of this thread that means meat eating or not, vegan or not.
To answer with essentially "a non-nutritious diet cannot be nutritious" doesn't really say much.
Yes, there are bad diets, and a diet consisting of only bacon and donuts is not a good diet. I'm sure you think this was an important and helpful point to make and that someone somewhere learned something from it, but I seriously doubt it.0 -
I am an omnivore, because i love food and i really love a chuck eye and asparagus0
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Need2Exerc1se wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »A balanced vegan diet is the best diet. Why?
1. Cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and coronary artery disease rates are RIDICULOUSLY LOW in VEGANS
2. Increased longevity (6-10 years longer
3. High fiber= less constipation
4. ONLY sustainable diet w/ growing population and pollution
5. Conserves 600 gallons of water a DAY
6. Prevents animal TORTURE and abuse (Would you torture & kill your dog? No? Guess what, pigs are shown to be just as smart and social as dogs.)
7. Clear arteries=increased bloodflow= better SEXUAL PERFORMANCE
8. Helps prevent cancer bc green leafy vegetables = alkaline body= unfavorable to cancerous tumors
9. Lowers blood pressure and cholesterol
Most of all- delicious!! Encourages creativity with food and experimentation
Hmu if you want to learn more or watch Forks Over Knives and Earthlings (documentaries)
What a bizarre list. Are you assuming everyone that isn't vegan is a carnivore?
Yes, I had the same reaction. For example, one does not need to cut out all animal products to also eat foods high in fiber and lots of dark leafy greens. I try to do both daily.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Yes, but you did not specify that in your previous post. As she pointed out, a lot of people do not eat a nutritious diet as it is. I'm sure there are enough people out there that start off with donuts/pastries/cereal at breakfast, followed by fast food (burgers, sandwiches) at lunch, and then more restaurant food (like steak, more burgers, etc.) at dinner. I'm reasonably certain that the average person (especially in the U.S.) is not chowing down on a balanced, varied diet.aadtamhankar wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »
I appreciate the picture
Everyone should definitely do their own research way, hence I recommended the documentaries. And I agree that the acidic body is still being researched, but I'm hesitant to completely dismiss it bc there are some doctors who support it.
Although the cancer link is pretty undisputed, especially regarding red and processed meat. Bacon is a class 1 carcinogen now.
Everyone should do their research, however documentaries do not accomplish that goal. Documentaries are biased art that proceed to convince you of their argument by skewing the data. So, yes...do your research.
Any diet can be healthy. Any diet can be unhealthy.
I just recommend documentaries bc they present a lot of info with less effort on the part of the viewer. Not everyone has the time to read abstracts on Pubmed, though this is probably ideal.
I have to disagree with you that every diet can be healthy. A diet of processed meat and sugary donuts really can't be healthy. In fact the obesity rares in this country show that the majority of Americans don't eat a healthy diet.
Nice straw man. A diet that is varied and also includes processed meat and sugar donuts can be healthy.
It's pretty obvious that she was using diet in the broader sense, considering that this thread is *specifically* on vegan, vegetarian, and ominvorous diets. Why would she even have to caveat, "I am not talking about Cooter McGillicutty's Funyuns and grape drink diet"? It is a moot point anyway, because all three diets can encompass donuts, Funyuns and grape drink, candy, and many other obesity-inducing foods. She called him out an a strawman logical fallacy, now I'm calling you out on a red herring logical fallacy. The bad eating habits of the average person are not relevant to the overall ideal of the three diets under discussion.
In for Oreos are vegan comments.
I was not entirely sure if Funyuns are vegan, but...they're a vegetable, right? Oh, update, I looked at teh googlz and Funyuns are, in fact, not Vegan. So I will have to replace them with Sour Patch Kids, which ARE vegan (and delicious).0 -
aadtamhankar wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »aadtamhankar wrote: »
You're doing a diservice to veganism. I'm definitely not a vegan, but the garbage you're posting isn't helping your cause. You might want to actually read through the thread first, or any one of the hundreds of threads that have been posted on here. The alkaline body, Forks over Knives, generalizations based on comparisons to average diets, etc. have been done to death.
I don't believe I am doing a disservice to it at all. I am not attacking anyone, and I am new to this app, but I did not see the benefits presented in a clear list when browsing so I decided to make one. Had it been done before? Probably, but it never hurts to reiterate
Lists like this are created for and written by lazy thinkers. Especially since you know, based on a comment below, that the expectation is for links to peer reviewed studies. It might be fine for Facebook, but not so much Nutrition Debate, aka, Fight Club.0 -
aadtamhankar wrote: »
Nearly everyone dies an omnivore. Nearly everyone save a few countries live long full lives. I'm not talking outliers here.
According to this map, Brazil and India should stand out for health and longevity, if @aadtamhankar 's claims hold out.
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Meat eater here.
I hunt & process my own meat for my consumption so I don't have to buy store bought meat that I have no idea where it came from or how it was handled before it was put in the plastic wrap.1 -
From this map it appears that America prefers Pescatarian. At least from their order-out menus.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/food-trends-across-us-are-weird-what-americans-order-most-their-states-menu-301206
Let's compare this to an obesity map:
That's it; I've solved the obesity crisis. It's Ranch Dip.0 -
From this map it appears that America prefers Pescatarian. At least from their order-out menus.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/food-trends-across-us-are-weird-what-americans-order-most-their-states-menu-301206
Let's compare this to an obesity map:
That's it; I've solved the obesity crisis. It's Ranch Dip.
I'd say the lower map has a lot more to do with physical activity level, much of it caused by dense urban areas.0 -
From this map it appears that America prefers Pescatarian. At least from their order-out menus.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/food-trends-across-us-are-weird-what-americans-order-most-their-states-menu-301206
Let's compare this to an obesity map:
That's it; I've solved the obesity crisis. It's Ranch Dip.
My state mostly orders green bell peppers?
I am skeptical. ;-)
Also, your next task is to cross reference this with Republican primary results.0 -
@senecarr if urban density were the factor, there should be a correlation. Let's take Texas.
I would suggest also that people who live in suburbs and depend on personal vehicles to get to work and to shopping, are more likely to be sedentary than people living in dense urban areas where a lot of amenities might be in walking distance.
As a prairie girl I was stunned to find out that in Manhattan, Broadway is a block off Times Square and the entire freaking island is walkable.0 -
I have been looking at the correlation of income inequality to obesity and there does seem to be some correlation there.
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You need more information.
There is a correlation, but there's also a correlation to minority status in the US (Latinos and African Americans are more likely to be overweight or not to lie about being overweight, perhaps*). That chart could be reflecting that, as well as a million other things.
*The obesity rate in the South tends to be overstated vs. the rest of the country because people lie less for stats collected by asking people. When stats are based on actual weigh-ins they are apparently different.0 -
aadtamhankar wrote: »A balanced vegan diet is the best diet. Why?
1. Cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and coronary artery disease rates are RIDICULOUSLY LOW in VEGANS
2. Increased longevity (6-10 years longer
3. High fiber= less constipation
4. ONLY sustainable diet w/ growing population and pollution
5. Conserves 600 gallons of water a DAY
6. Prevents animal TORTURE and abuse (Would you torture & kill your dog? No? Guess what, pigs are shown to be just as smart and social as dogs.)
7. Clear arteries=increased bloodflow= better SEXUAL PERFORMANCE
8. Helps prevent cancer bc green leafy vegetables = alkaline body= unfavorable to cancerous tumors
9. Lowers blood pressure and cholesterol
Most of all- delicious!! Encourages creativity with food and experimentation
Hmu if you want to learn more or watch Forks Over Knives and Earthlings (documentaries)
Most of this can occur with a very LCHF (and/or a carnivorous diet).
1. Cardiovascular disease and heart attacks and coronary artery disease rates are RIDICULOUSLY LOW in VEGANS LCHf diets
2. Increased longevity (6-10 years longer) - true for LCHF
3. High fiber= less constipation for many
4. ONLY sustainable diet w/ growing population and pollution - perhaps true for LCHF if the farmers started switching to veggies instead of grains.
5. Conserves 600 gallons of water a DAY. No idea for LCHF
6. Prevents animal TORTURE and abuse (Would you torture & kill your dog? No? Guess what, pigs are shown to be just as smart and social as dogs.) - animals need not be abused and tortured before being eaten. My meat comes from a small farm where the animals have a pretty good life.
7. Clear arteries=increased blood flow= better SEXUAL PERFORMANCE - True for LCHF
8. Helps prevent cancer bc green leafy vegetables = alkaline body= unfavorable to cancerous tumors - true for LCHF
9. Lowers blood pressure and cholesterol - True for LCHF
It seems to me that very low carb with high fat diets and very high carb, low fat (vegan) diets have many similarities when it comes to health. The health problems seem to arise when high levels of refined carbs are thrown into the mix, and possibly higher refined carbs with higher fat diets.
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(The map analysis should probably be a new topic -- what factors lead to obesity in the US or some such.)0
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@senecarr if urban density were the factor, there should be a correlation. Let's take Texas.
[snip]
I would suggest also that people who live in suburbs and depend on personal vehicles to get to work and to shopping, are more likely to be sedentary than people living in dense urban areas where a lot of amenities might be in walking distance.
As a prairie girl I was stunned to find out that in Manhattan, Broadway is a block off Times Square and the entire freaking island is walkable.
This supports his point, doesn't it? Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio (and their suburbs) all appear to be seas of thinness, if the light blue is the thin end of the scale.0 -
jmbmilholland wrote: »@senecarr if urban density were the factor, there should be a correlation. Let's take Texas.
[snip]
I would suggest also that people who live in suburbs and depend on personal vehicles to get to work and to shopping, are more likely to be sedentary than people living in dense urban areas where a lot of amenities might be in walking distance.
As a prairie girl I was stunned to find out that in Manhattan, Broadway is a block off Times Square and the entire freaking island is walkable.
This supports his point, doesn't it? Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio (and their suburbs) all appear to be seas of thinness, if the light blue is the thin end of the scale.
What map are you looking at? Dallas County, Houston County are mid to dark blue as I'd expect. I've lived both places. Neither city is walkable (exception Houston Medical area and Rice University) - amenities are too far apart so you drive everywhere. On the other hand, Dallas has an pretty decent run/walk/bike trail system and it gets pretty good use.
Austin County is light blue. It's a lot more walkable - University of Texas is huge, and there are a lot of arts and shopping districts with groceries, farmer's markets, etc. A decent population of casual walkers and bicyclists. Having a problem finding San Antonio for some reason, but I'd expect it to be between Austin and the rest. More walkable with the River Walk area, but the few times I've visited it seemed amenities were pretty spread out, too.
It's not the population density that determines a city's walkability, it's the density of amenities - nearness of home to work to shopping, etc.0 -
As long as there is moderation is ALL things you can be healthy. If you have one cupcake that does not mean you are not healthy. If you have a steak SAME. I LOVE MEAT but I also know I need the balance of grains, veggies, dairy, fruit, etc0
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I've started a thread on county maps and correlation.
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10349264/correlation-causation-and-county-maps?new=1
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jmbmilholland wrote: »@senecarr if urban density were the factor, there should be a correlation. Let's take Texas.
[snip]
I would suggest also that people who live in suburbs and depend on personal vehicles to get to work and to shopping, are more likely to be sedentary than people living in dense urban areas where a lot of amenities might be in walking distance.
As a prairie girl I was stunned to find out that in Manhattan, Broadway is a block off Times Square and the entire freaking island is walkable.
This supports his point, doesn't it? Austin, Houston, Dallas and San Antonio (and their suburbs) all appear to be seas of thinness, if the light blue is the thin end of the scale.
What map are you looking at? Dallas County, Houston County are mid to dark blue as I'd expect. I've lived both places. Neither city is walkable (exception Houston Medical area and Rice University) - amenities are too far apart so you drive everywhere. On the other hand, Dallas has an pretty decent run/walk/bike trail system and it gets pretty good use.
Austin County is light blue. It's a lot more walkable - University of Texas is huge, and there are a lot of arts and shopping districts with groceries, farmer's markets, etc. A decent population of casual walkers and bicyclists. Having a problem finding San Antonio for some reason, but I'd expect it to be between Austin and the rest. More walkable with the River Walk area, but the few times I've visited it seemed amenities were pretty spread out, too.
It's not the population density that determines a city's walkability, it's the density of amenities - nearness of home to work to shopping, etc.
Sorry, I should have specified "metro area." I don't know Texas, but I was expecting with the population boom in these cities that many of the transplants are spilling over into other counties. For Houston, I was looking at the 3 counties to the south, with the assumption that those include some bedroom communities; for Dallas, the counties marked TAR, DEN and CON; and the both Austin and San Antonio at the south end are encompassed by that swath of light blue. I don't know how the suburb situation actually lays out, however, and again, there is a lot of potential influence by race and class as well.0 -
I don't know if you noticed, @jmbmilholland , but light blue means "better".0
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@jmbmilholland here's a racial dot map of texas.
http://demographics.coopercenter.org/DotMap/
My Canadian sensibilities are tingling. We'd more likely call this ethnic origin here in Canada. And I'd rather look at poverty as being a factor rather than bone structure. Because "race" really, isn't more than skin deep is it? (Other than such things as sickle cell anemia).
From this map I've got to say that Dallas and Houston are rainbows. Does this indicate a cosmopolitan society or dense communities side by each?0 -
Compare this to a zoomed up picture of New York. I oriented myself to Central park (the rectangle in the middle).
I can see that most of southern Manhattan is white, the dividing line, and Hispanic and Black Harlem directly north of Central Park.0 -
I eat meat. I understand the ethical side of being vegetarian or vegan, however there are ethical ways to get your meat as well, you just have to be willing to take the time to research the best sources. I eat meat because evolutionarily, our bodies are designed to be able to consume meat, its the reason our teeth are the way they are. We as humans are omnivores.0
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Been veggie for the last 2 years for ethical reasons and have to say I feel a whole load cleaner, plus not flossing dead animal out of my teeth is a bonus. Since being on MFP I've lost 20lbs though can't put that down solely to not eating meat, I do believe it's helped but it's more due to portion size and exercise.0
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Responding to the demographic stuff in the other thread.0
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