Toning
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robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus0 -
BeYouTiful94 wrote: »Hey all, I have one more question (sorry, I know I've asked a lot already!). The gym in my apartment has a smith machine (I think that's what they're called). Soooo ... Being only 5'5", the bar won't go down far enough for me to do certain things, like the row. So I looked around and found a dumbbell weight lifting routine, and I'm wondering if that's as good as the barbell? I suppose I could buy my own barbell and drag it to the gym with me and just use their weighs lol, but I'm hoping dumbbell lifting is kind of the same???? Or maybe do barbell squats and bench presses and whatnot and then dumbbell rows and deadlifts and such (that I can't do with the attached barbell contraption)????
Hi
You ask as many questions as you like ...that's the point of this place
I don't like smith machines, but my understanding is they were designed for squats, bench presses and not rows. This issue is they don't track natural movement so reduce the effectiveness of your lifts by not engaging your core fully also the risks of injury are greater
I would consider a dumbbell lifting routine superior to a smith machine
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robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
muscle tone
See tonus.
Mosby's Medical Dictionary, 9th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.
mus·cle tone (mŭs'ĕl tōn)
1. The internal state of muscle-fiber tension within individual muscles and muscle groups.
2. Degree of muscle tension or resistance during rest or in response to stretching.
See also: hypertonia, hypotonia (3)
Medical Dictionary for the Health Professions and Nursing © Farlex 2012
Muscle tone
Also termed tonus; the normal state of balanced tension in the tissues of the body, especially the muscles.
Mentioned in: Contractures
Gale Encyclopedia of Medicine. Copyright 2008 The Gale Group, Inc. All rights reserved.
muscle tone syn tonus (1) in skeletal muscle, a state of tension that is maintained continuously - minimally even when relaxed - and which increases in resistance to passive stretch. Pathologically, loss of tone (flaccidity) can be caused, e.g. by peripheral nerve damage, and exaggerated tone (spasticity) by overstimulation, e.g. when the activity of the relevant lower motor neurons is released from higher CNS control in spinal injury. The term is sometimes also used, incorrectly, to indicate general muscle strength. (2) In smooth muscle, steady tension maintained in the walls of hollow vessels; regulated mainly by autonomic innervation but influenced, e.g. in the walls of arterioles, by local variables: temperature, chemical factors or intravascular pressure, contributing to autoregulation of appropriate blood flow. See also stretch reflex.
Dictionary of Sport and Exercise Science and Medicine by Churchill Livingstone © 2008 Elsevier Limited. All rights reserved.
muscle tone background tension within resting muscle tissue (due to random activation of small numbers of muscle motor units)
Illustrated Dictionary of Podiatry and Foot Science by Jean Mooney © 2009 Elsevier Limited. All rights reserved.
tonus
A state of partial contraction present in a muscle in its passive state as, for example, when the eye is in the physiological position of rest. Syn. muscle tone. See resting state of accommodation; physiological position of rest; tonic vergence.
Millodot: Dictionary of Optometry and Visual Science, 7th edition. © 2009 Butterworth-Heinemann
All medical texts, references, and dictionaries. I'm sure someone will have to correct all the internet misinformation the medical community is using.0 -
robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
OP
The machines generally don't use as many muscles as they allow you to isolate specific areas more. Free weights often use surrounding muscle groups in balance and such, and are often preferred. Not to say that machine work won't help, it will.
While in deficit there are tons of ways to build some strength. Body weight type exercises, circuit type stuff, and others as well as conventional weight room type work can all allow for strength gains and progressive overload. You can workout while in deficit and still lose weight, and hopefully preserve most of your muscle mass in the process. For women muscle gains are slow even in calorie surplus, so avoiding any loss helps in the long run.
Dictionaries only explain how people use words (i.e., what they intend to describe, denote, or connote when they use a word). Just because a word exists doesn't mean that the thing or idea it refers to is real. I might possibly find "Superman" in a dictionary; that doesn't mean there's a guy from Krypton flying around in a cape.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
OP
The machines generally don't use as many muscles as they allow you to isolate specific areas more. Free weights often use surrounding muscle groups in balance and such, and are often preferred. Not to say that machine work won't help, it will.
While in deficit there are tons of ways to build some strength. Body weight type exercises, circuit type stuff, and others as well as conventional weight room type work can all allow for strength gains and progressive overload. You can workout while in deficit and still lose weight, and hopefully preserve most of your muscle mass in the process. For women muscle gains are slow even in calorie surplus, so avoiding any loss helps in the long run.
Dictionaries only explain how people use words (i.e., what they intend to describe, denote, or connote when they use a word). Just because a word exists doesn't mean that the thing or idea it refers to is real. I might possibly find "Superman" in a dictionary; that doesn't mean there's a guy from Krypton flying around in a cape.
See the post above yours. Those are all medical references. Apparently the medical community has use for the term, otherwise they wouldn't bother to define it.0 -
robertw486 wrote: »lynn_glenmont wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
OP
The machines generally don't use as many muscles as they allow you to isolate specific areas more. Free weights often use surrounding muscle groups in balance and such, and are often preferred. Not to say that machine work won't help, it will.
While in deficit there are tons of ways to build some strength. Body weight type exercises, circuit type stuff, and others as well as conventional weight room type work can all allow for strength gains and progressive overload. You can workout while in deficit and still lose weight, and hopefully preserve most of your muscle mass in the process. For women muscle gains are slow even in calorie surplus, so avoiding any loss helps in the long run.
Dictionaries only explain how people use words (i.e., what they intend to describe, denote, or connote when they use a word). Just because a word exists doesn't mean that the thing or idea it refers to is real. I might possibly find "Superman" in a dictionary; that doesn't mean there's a guy from Krypton flying around in a cape.
See the post above yours. Those are all medical references. Apparently the medical community has use for the term, otherwise they wouldn't bother to define it.
Yes, I'm familiar with those definitions. Those are not the ways OP and other people who talk about "toning" are using the word, when they think they can change their muscle tone by lifting. Note, from one of your definitionsThe term is sometimes also used, incorrectly, to indicate general muscle strength.
In the medical context they're talking about the level of tension of a muscle in the relaxed state, not how sharply defined your abs, delts, or triceps are (the latter being what people who ask about exercises to get "toned" generally seem to be talking about).0 -
robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
Uhm, still fighting with the vocabulary? You have to look at the VERB definition, just below..
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tone
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Gianfranco_R wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
Uhm, still fighting with the vocabulary? You have to look at the VERB definition, just below..
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tone
Again, just because enough people use a word to express a false concept that a dictionary takes notes of that usage doesn't mean the concept reflects the way the world really works (see "detox"). What is it that you think happens to a muscles when you "tone" it? Because the only thing you can change about your muscles is to build more muscle mass, or to lose muscle mass. You can also lose fat and make the muscle appear more defined, but you're not actually doing anything to the muscle in that case, so saying you're toning the muscle would be pretty nonsensical.0 -
lynn_glenmont wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
Uhm, still fighting with the vocabulary? You have to look at the VERB definition, just below..
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tone
Again, just because enough people use a word to express a false concept that a dictionary takes notes of that usage doesn't mean the concept reflects the way the world really works (see "detox"). What is it that you think happens to a muscles when you "tone" it? Because the only thing you can change about your muscles is to build more muscle mass, or to lose muscle mass. You can also lose fat and make the muscle appear more defined, but you're not actually doing anything to the muscle in that case, so saying you're toning the muscle would be pretty nonsensical.
^ This. Ridiculous pedantry aside, there is no such thing as "toning" as muscle or having "toned" muscles. There are physiological terms for muscles getting larger (hypertrophy) or smaller (atrophy) - now let's have one of the pedants provide the physiological term for "toning" a muscle.
Here's a link which describes what "toning" actually is, and how to accomplish it: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/muscle-tone/0 -
@BeYouTiful94 I'm sorry your thread has been hijacked and I feel responsible for assuming when you spoke in your OP about toning you meant that visual look of tone that the magazines speak of (which relates to lower body fat revealing musculature) rather than actual working on actual muscles which is the true definition
I don't think any of this matters as your thread appears to have provided you with the information you requestedGianfranco_R wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
Uhm, still fighting with the vocabulary? You have to look at the VERB definition, just below..
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tone
Oh I did ...it means exactly what I said
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lynn_glenmont wrote: »Gianfranco_R wrote: »robertw486 wrote: »Just as a point of order toning doesn't really exist, muscles get bigger or smaller and fat reduces to show muscles
Just a point of order, but the dictionary isn't defined by MFP terms. The first search for the word tone brings up the following on my home page...
tone
tōn/Submit
verb
gerund or present participle: toning
1.
give greater strength or firmness to (the body or a part of it).
"exercise tones up the muscles"
It seems to be another in a string of words that some at MFP oppose, even though dictionary's support it.
.
I think "some at MFP" try to inform not based on incorrectly disseminated internet information or health and fitness misuse of words.
That definition, whilst widely used in the slimming world and tabloids, would not appear in any medical textbook and does not seem to appear in the OED or Merriam-Webster
OED
6
(also muscle tone)
[MASS NOUN] The normal level of firmness or slight contraction in a resting muscle:
a reduction of muscle tone
a certain amount of daily exercise is essential to maintain proper body tone and function
MORE EXAMPLE SENTENCES
6.1 Physiology The normal level of activity in a nerve fibre:
vagal tone
Merriam-Webster
a : the state of a living body or of any of its organs or parts in which the functions are healthy and performed with due vigor
b : normal tension or responsiveness to stimuli; specifically : muscular tonus
Uhm, still fighting with the vocabulary? You have to look at the VERB definition, just below..
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/tone
Again, just because enough people use a word to express a false concept that a dictionary takes notes of that usage doesn't mean the concept reflects the way the world really works (see "detox"). What is it that you think happens to a muscles when you "tone" it? Because the only thing you can change about your muscles is to build more muscle mass, or to lose muscle mass. You can also lose fat and make the muscle appear more defined, but you're not actually doing anything to the muscle in that case, so saying you're toning the muscle would be pretty nonsensical.
people that want to "tone up", as I understand, just want to look firmer without getting bigger.
Is that possible? Yes, of course it is. So "toning up" is not a false concept, per se. What is contentious is just how to get such result and whether "toning up" requires a different approach or not.
I don't have a horse here. What is sure is that people that even struggle with vocabulary aren't going to convince me that they are right.0 -
BeYouTiful94 wrote: »Hey all, I have one more question (sorry, I know I've asked a lot already!). The gym in my apartment has a smith machine (I think that's what they're called). Soooo ... Being only 5'5", the bar won't go down far enough for me to do certain things, like the row. So I looked around and found a dumbbell weight lifting routine, and I'm wondering if that's as good as the barbell? I suppose I could buy my own barbell and drag it to the gym with me and just use their weighs lol, but I'm hoping dumbbell lifting is kind of the same???? Or maybe do barbell squats and bench presses and whatnot and then dumbbell rows and deadlifts and such (that I can't do with the attached barbell contraption)????
Use what you have access to, but I would agree with @rabbitjb that smith machines aren't the best since they generally don't follow your physiology. If you do have access to free weights, than you can still follow the programs we suggested above. There are many modifications to the barbell moves. As a note, there are many solid routines that use barbells, free weights, medicine balls, cable machines, smith machines, TRX bands, and more. Everything has it's place and they will all have various effects. Overall, some will be more effective than others (i.e. - free weights engage more muscles than smith machines), but that doesn't mean the others aren't effective. Meaning, you will see results with any plan, but your results might be better with better equipment. Hell, if you don't have any equipment, you can start with routines like, "You are your own gym" or "Convict Conditioning".0 -
Also, for those who want to battle it out over the use and cogitation of the word toning, please take it to the debate section. Going forward, warnings will be issues for violation of the below rule:
2. No Hi-Jacking, Trolling, or Flame-baiting
Please stay on-topic in an existing thread, and post new threads in the appropriate forum. Taking a thread off-topic is considered hi-jacking. Please either contribute politely and constructively to a topic, or move on without posting. This includes posts that encourage the drama in a topic to escalate, or posts intended to incite an uproar from the community.
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Well this was interesting. OP if you can, find a free weight routine instead of use on the smith machine. There are some that allow a free range of movement, but out of 4 gyms, I've only seen one. You can definitely do bent over DB rows either unilaterally or multilaterally. And if worse comes to worse, simply sign up for a gym membership. Chances are you have an all women's gym that offers a great 1 year sign up deal.0
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Thanks for all the pointers on weighs y'all. You guys have been a ton of help and I really appreciate y'all answering my questions!0
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