Not so great bariatric results

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Replies

  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,956 Member
    People don't address HABITUAL BEHAVIOR first. That's why it's not uncommon for someone who's had bariatric surgery to divert their behavior to something else. Can't eat anymore? Then there's always alcohol, gambling, or some other compulsive habit to take up.
    Hospitals that perform this should deal first with the mental aspect before surgery. Not just a couple months of dieting as confirmation that they can stick to it.

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  • TammerTammer
    TammerTammer Posts: 25 Member
    edited March 2016
    I considered the barbaric route. I went to the seminar to learn about it and I found that for some people it was necessary to begin the journey. People who were sick, highly medicated, or in peril. In the end, I could not justify the risk of surgery when truly I hold all the power to lose the weight is the end anyway. Been on a losing trend since Jan 2nd. 38 lbs down. Dreaming of another 87 to go. The thing that has surprised me most is that I cannot see or feel a difference yet even though people tell me a,lean of the time ever they see it. I a, waiting for the day when I can say I feel good about my size again.
  • RobD520
    RobD520 Posts: 420 Member
    coreyreichle wrote: »
    RobD520 wrote: »
    Someone close to me successfully went through surgery 10 years ago. (She remains at goal today; though that, in and of itself, proves nothing. Having gone through it at the time, I don't really agree that she had do demonstrate much more than a reasonable attempt at these things.

    But even if what you say is true, that doesn't argue that the surgery cannot be helpful for the people to whom you refer as the "best candidates."

    This is not to say that surgery is the answer for everybody; it wasn't for me. But I am not going to do anything but support people who make that choice.

    I'm not so sure it's helpful. When you weigh the risks against whatever minimal benefits come from it, seeing as the best of the best are the only ones who get it, and lose weight, often don't ever get to a healthy weight anyways, and compare it to those with non-surgical intervention who typically not just lose weight, but lose to a point of being in a healthy weight range.

    The OP has already had the surgery. I am not sure spending much time talking about its efficacy will do much for her at this point .

    That being said, most of the data I have read suggests that most people who lose weight through any method gain much of it back. So the argument that people who use non-surgical interventions TYPICALLY not just lose weight, but lose to a point of being in a healthy weight range" does not stand up to empirical scrutiny.
  • blues4miles
    blues4miles Posts: 1,481 Member
    edited March 2016
    coreyreichle wrote: »
    RobD520 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    Meta analysis is to analysis what meta physics is to physics ?

    Systematic cherry picking is also an issue.

    It would indeed be a flaw in a meta-analysis if the authors "cherry-picked" their studies. It is the job of the peer reviewers to identify any systematic bias, and this should play a role as to whether the paper gets published.

    I assume you will be providing us a review where you can demonstrate the "systematic cherry picking" in the studies shared. I look forward to hearing from you which studies were inappropriately excluded from the analyses.

    There's a systemic bias in the selection of candidates for bariatric surgery, where only the best possible candidates get surgery are being compared to everyone who has attempted non-surgical methods.

    ie, bariatric surgery candidates must demonstrate the ability to follow a controlled diet, prior to surgery even being performed.

    What is your evidence for this? Yes most bariatric patients have to lose some weight before the surgery, for different reasons, but this tends to be a short term VLCD doctor supervised diet at the end of which if they are successful they expect the surgery. Most people can be successful under these conditions, it's long term adherence and long term maintenance that are the problems.

    Given that they only give weight loss surgery to those that are above a certain level of obesity OR have conflating health problems, I'd argue the typical obese person getting surgery is probably less healthy than the typical obese person not getting surgery. Therefore they are likely to have more limitations. So I disagree with your statement that just because most go through a VLCD prior to the surgery that they are somehow likely to be more successful.
  • NicoleL874
    NicoleL874 Posts: 675 Member
    I thought this was the "General Diet and Weight Loss HELP" board. Not a debate board. The OP didn't ask any of you if you felt their decision to have surgery was a good one or not.

    Summer...go back to basics, weigh and measure everything. Take control of your kitchen and pantry, get rid of all the "bad" food. Make sure all your "trigger foods" are dumped. Go back to a liquid diet for a few days if need be, to remember to pay attention to what the restriction feels like.

    There is a lot of good info from a few posters in this thread, focus on them. Ignore the rest. Only you could decide what you needed to do. If you want it badly enough you'll get there. Focus.

    Best of luck to you.
  • jgnatca
    jgnatca Posts: 14,464 Member
    summerbreez1132 wrote: »
    Is there anyone out there who had a successful bariatric surgery but didn't get the results anticipated because you didn't eat out exercise as directed? Im that person also and would like to hear from others who have. Let's encourage each other top get back on track and finish out quest with amazing results. My name is summer

    Welcome, summer. I had the bypass almost two years ago and it has been a success for me. The program here in Canada includes extensive classes and assessment prior to surgery, and a year's worth of follow-up afterwards. The program has a pretty darned good success rate.

    There's a program offered by Stanford that I found very helpful, and it's available in every State. It teaches participants how to troubleshoot a problem, come up with some solutions, implement through a SMART goal, and then assess the results. It takes all the defeatism and guilt out of the process.

    http://patienteducation.stanford.edu/programs/cdsmp.html
  • brb_2013
    brb_2013 Posts: 1,197 Member
    PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »
    gurlygirlrcr80 wrote: »
    People who haven't had surgery, always have the most to say about how it's a failure. SMH
    But back to the OP, I've lost almost all my goal weight, I'm currently working on what I want to do with my body now. I'm working out and lifting. Trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up.

    It's not the surgery that fails. It's the patient. Seeing loved one after loved one fail at using the surgery to their advantage definitely gives an observer cause to speak about it.

    Agreed... My mother (chronic yo-yo dieter) is about to leave for Mexico for her surgery. I'm terrified for her safety first of all, but also of the stress on her body and mind as she realizes this is no miracle. I wish all surgery havers the best, but these sorts of stories are why I don't think surgery should be an option save for those who are absolutely morbidly obese.
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,031 Member
    blues4miles wrote: »
    coreyreichle wrote: »
    RobD520 wrote: »
    yarwell wrote: »
    Meta analysis is to analysis what meta physics is to physics ?

    Systematic cherry picking is also an issue.

    It would indeed be a flaw in a meta-analysis if the authors "cherry-picked" their studies. It is the job of the peer reviewers to identify any systematic bias, and this should play a role as to whether the paper gets published.

    I assume you will be providing us a review where you can demonstrate the "systematic cherry picking" in the studies shared. I look forward to hearing from you which studies were inappropriately excluded from the analyses.

    There's a systemic bias in the selection of candidates for bariatric surgery, where only the best possible candidates get surgery are being compared to everyone who has attempted non-surgical methods.

    ie, bariatric surgery candidates must demonstrate the ability to follow a controlled diet, prior to surgery even being performed.

    What is your evidence for this?
    ...

    You just provided it:
    "Yes most bariatric patients have to lose some weight before the surgery, for different reasons, but this tends to be a short term VLCD doctor supervised diet at the end of which if they are successful they expect the surgery. Most people can be successful under these conditions, it's long term adherence and long term maintenance that are the problems."

    If you gave anyone a weight loss goal, and intense follow up after they met their goal, they would likely succeed. Notice there's no surgery even being explored for any other compulsive disorder?

    Like the NWCR's research has found: For long term weight loss, there is very little difference in effect for surgical vs. non-surgical interventions. Those who have maintained long-term weight loss could do it with or without the surgery.
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,031 Member
    jgnatca wrote: »
    summerbreez1132 wrote: »
    Is there anyone out there who had a successful bariatric surgery but didn't get the results anticipated because you didn't eat out exercise as directed? Im that person also and would like to hear from others who have. Let's encourage each other top get back on track and finish out quest with amazing results. My name is summer

    Welcome, summer. I had the bypass almost two years ago and it has been a success for me. The program here in Canada includes extensive classes and assessment prior to surgery, and a year's worth of follow-up afterwards. The program has a pretty darned good success rate.

    There's a program offered by Stanford that I found very helpful, and it's available in every State. It teaches participants how to troubleshoot a problem, come up with some solutions, implement through a SMART goal, and then assess the results. It takes all the defeatism and guilt out of the process.

    http://patienteducation.stanford.edu/programs/cdsmp.html


    I think offering extensive classes and assessments, coupled with a year's worth of follow-up would be successful with or without the surgery. Research from the NWCR has found the same conclusions as well.
  • coreyreichle
    coreyreichle Posts: 1,031 Member
    RobD520 wrote: »
    coreyreichle wrote: »
    RobD520 wrote: »
    Someone close to me successfully went through surgery 10 years ago. (She remains at goal today; though that, in and of itself, proves nothing. Having gone through it at the time, I don't really agree that she had do demonstrate much more than a reasonable attempt at these things.

    But even if what you say is true, that doesn't argue that the surgery cannot be helpful for the people to whom you refer as the "best candidates."

    This is not to say that surgery is the answer for everybody; it wasn't for me. But I am not going to do anything but support people who make that choice.

    I'm not so sure it's helpful. When you weigh the risks against whatever minimal benefits come from it, seeing as the best of the best are the only ones who get it, and lose weight, often don't ever get to a healthy weight anyways, and compare it to those with non-surgical intervention who typically not just lose weight, but lose to a point of being in a healthy weight range.

    The OP has already had the surgery. I am not sure spending much time talking about its efficacy will do much for her at this point .

    That being said, most of the data I have read suggests that most people who lose weight through any method gain much of it back. So the argument that people who use non-surgical interventions TYPICALLY not just lose weight, but lose to a point of being in a healthy weight range" does not stand up to empirical scrutiny.

    Most of the data you've read is wrong, then. See: http://www.nwcr.ws/Research/published research.htm , specifically: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10849578?dopt=Abstract

    Basically, to be eligible for bariatric surgery at most any institution in the US, you would also be able to meet the requirements to be a part of the NWCR: Lose 30 lbs or more, and keep it off for 6 months.

    NWCR findings point to a mindset being key, not necessarily the type of intervention. And, given surgery is highly risky, why engage in the risk taking, when a 0 risk method would accomplish the same?

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