A little clarification on when to bulk?

distinctlybeautiful

Let me start by saying that I'm not even close to being ready for this. But for the first time ever, I'm pretty certain there will be a time when I will be ready. And let me also say that I'm talking about a bulk to add muscle, not just weight.

So I was reading the sticky, A Beginner's Guide to Bulking, I think it's called, and I read this..

"This post assumes that you have already determined that your body fat is low enough to bulk. For males it is recommend to bulk at sub 15% body fat; for females that range is about 18-20%. < These are just ranges and everyone is going to be a little different."

I generally understand why you'd want low body fat before you bulk, but couldn't a person technically start a bulk at any time? What would happen if a person tried bulking before his/her body fat was low?

Forgive me if these questions have ridiculously obvious answers. This is coming from someone who, a year ago, would've laughed in your face if you'd told me I'd ever be considering deliberately putting on weight.

Thank y'all!

usmcmp

Nutrient partitioning. The higher your body fat the less lean mass and the more fat you are likely to add.

distinctlybeautiful

Thanks! Is 18%-20% body fat generally the accepted range for women before starting to bulk?

youngmomtaz

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

TavistockToad

youngmomtaz wrote: »

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

any reason you decided on a bulk instead of recomp at maintenance till you found your weight loss mojo again?

richln

Lyle McDonald recommends women get down to 19-24% before a bulk:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html/

If you are getting burned out from a long cut, a diet break for several weeks at maintenance calories can do wonders psychologically and for hormone recovery.

distinctlybeautiful

When I first started here I was in a slight deficit, but I quickly upped to maintenance and have been working on recomp. It's been probably ten months since I started, and I've seen more changes during those months than I ever have before. I keep toying with the idea of going into a cut, but because I was an extreme restrictor before, I still have trouble with it mentally. It's like if I'm gonna be at a deficit, I want to immediately see the results of that deficit. And I know that's unhealthy, so maintenance it is for now. I don't feel stalled out yet though because I know I could be more consistently sticking to maintenance and my protein goals, and that'd probably help my progress. Anyway, thanks for the input!

StealthHealth

youngmomtaz wrote: »

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

These are valid points and (I think) are good reasons to step outside that "generally accepted" range.

Personally, I have attempted to cut down to 10% (I'm male) several times in the past (a number generally banded about as an ideal BF to start a cut) only to bottom out at about 13%. The mental and physical state I was left in after each of these cuts was not pretty. This time I started my bulk at 15% and I'm loving it. We shall see how it goes, if the gains are predominantly fat or muscle and how easy it is to shed the fat on the cut.

youngmomtaz

TavistockToad wrote: »

youngmomtaz wrote: »

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

any reason you decided on a bulk instead of recomp at maintenance till you found your weight loss mojo again?

I guess mostly because I like results, I love my shoulders and arms, and I like to lift heavy. I was already, but being able to lift even more with a small surplus in calories is fun and results driven. If I have a plan to guide me I am happy. So much of this process I have been content to maintain between my losses but bam enjoying the journey so I thought I would pick something that keeps me motivated and happy.

ndj1979

StealthHealth wrote: »

youngmomtaz wrote: »

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

These are valid points and (I think) are good reasons to step outside that "generally accepted" range.

Personally, I have attempted to cut down to 10% (I'm male) several times in the past (a number generally banded about as an ideal BF to start a cut) only to bottom out at about 13%. The mental and physical state I was left in after each of these cuts was not pretty. This time I started my bulk at 15% and I'm loving it. We shall see how it goes, if the gains are predominantly fat or muscle and how easy it is to shed the fat on the cut.

I ran my first bulk at about 12% and my second at around 13% ... I really wanted to get to 10% but the precision and spot on intake that it requires was too much for me, as I tend to like my food and drink on the weekend..

OP - are you following a structured lifting program?

AlisonH729

Before my wedding I had gotten down to about 112 lifting at home & eating at a slight deficit. Once things settled down I joined the gym (dumbbells weren't cutting it for lower body). I debated running a bulk but my BF was still over 20%. (But actually eating on my honeymoon had been so nice and I just needed a break.) As the holidays rolled around I was eating at maintenance or a little over anyway so I sort of just rolled with it. Then I discovered that:

youngmomtaz wrote: »

being able to lift even more with a small surplus in calories is fun and results driven.

I really enjoy upping weight consistently and only step on the scale occasionally, and I don't even really care that it says 120. But alas it's spring and I do have a little extra squish. I've been trying to convince myself to get back into a deficit. Trying being the operative word... since I'm still having trouble getting over the mental block of lifting heavy in a deficit.

distinctlybeautiful

ndj1979 wrote: »

StealthHealth wrote: »

youngmomtaz wrote: »

I have read and researched this to death as well. But mentally, I was starting to fail at weight loss. Minor binges, apathy, etc. Online calculators and pics estimate me at 26-27% bf still but I have just started a bulk. It is a great switch from the cutting mindset. I will complete my 12 week program and then go back into a cut at the mid-end of June when I find it easier to eat lighter due to summer produce being so accessible in my area. I am a solid newb at this but I think that as much as the science is always right, sometimes you have to do what you can manage mentally and physically.

These are valid points and (I think) are good reasons to step outside that "generally accepted" range.

Personally, I have attempted to cut down to 10% (I'm male) several times in the past (a number generally banded about as an ideal BF to start a cut) only to bottom out at about 13%. The mental and physical state I was left in after each of these cuts was not pretty. This time I started my bulk at 15% and I'm loving it. We shall see how it goes, if the gains are predominantly fat or muscle and how easy it is to shed the fat on the cut.

I ran my first bulk at about 12% and my second at around 13% ... I really wanted to get to 10% but the precision and spot on intake that it requires was too much for me, as I tend to like my food and drink on the weekend..

OP - are you following a structured lifting program?

I am not. Just progressive overload. I break it into three days: chest, triceps, and shoulders; back and biceps; and legs. I squat almost every time, regardless of the day, and deadlifts often find there way into other days besides leg day. I'd say I lift on average four days a week. Aside from squats, deadlifts, and benching, I do rely on machines a lot, but I'm starting to incorporate a bit more dumbbell work and work with the cable machines (not sure what that's really called).

I also incorporate cardio, usually running but also some interval work with sprints and walking. This definitely isn't my main focus, but I do want to have good cardiovascular health - and as someone who couldn't run a full mile until about 27 years old, I get a lot of satisfaction just out of being able to do it.

StealthHealth

There are some that say you can't bulk when running but personally I don't go for that, although I would concede that it is more difficult - calories in have to accommodate the extra work and rest becomes much , much more important.

But, if the bulking is difficult it would be one place that you might want to look to minimise to keep the gains coming.

Also, although a structured lifting program is not essential (and there is nothing wrong with machines when used sensibly) it is far easier to get it right with a program.

Just a couple of things to chew over.

distinctlybeautiful

Thanks! I have read that people don't generally run when bulking because it just puts their caloric intake up too high, but I didn't know rest becomes more important.

One more question for anyone.. I read this article (http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet) that basically says you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time with intermittent fasting, eating at a surplus on training days, and I believe it said eating at a deficit on rest days. I fully don't intend to try this because fasting doesn't make me happy, but the article did sound good. I have no idea how reliable the source or the information is, so I was wondering if y'all have any input.

ndj1979

distinctlybeautiful wrote: »

Thanks! I have read that people don't generally run when bulking because it just puts their caloric intake up too high, but I didn't know rest becomes more important.

One more question for anyone.. I read this article (http://www.muscleandfitness.com/nutrition/lose-fat/death-bulk-and-cut-diet) that basically says you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time with intermittent fasting, eating at a surplus on training days, and I believe it said eating at a deficit on rest days. I fully don't intend to try this because fasting doesn't make me happy, but the article did sound good. I have no idea how reliable the source or the information is, so I was wondering if y'all have any input.

you can, it is called a recomp and tends to take a prolonged period of time to see results - 8 months to a year.

Also, intermittent fasting has nothing to do with a recomp. It is basically eating at maintenance level, following a structured lifting regimen, and hitting macros and micros.

distinctlybeautiful

Right, I've been doing recomp for about eight months now, but as I read it, this article is purporting to be something different based on the intermittent fasting and the timing of one's caloric intake.

Scamd83

Difference between recomp and maintenance, please? I looked at something called an IF calculator yesterday and it said to recomp I should eat 3000 calories on training days (three) and 2000 on rest days (four), does that sound about right?

codsterlaing95

usmcmp wrote: »

Nutrient partitioning. The higher your body fat the less lean mass and the more fat you are likely to add.

This.