knots in muscles

kingkam21

I lift weights Mon-fri.
For the past month I've been having trouble with my left side of my upper back, and my upper back is one of my favorit muscles groups to workout. This is my last month of bulking so I've been going hard on my back as my back is a week point in my genetics.
Last week on Thursday I worked out my shoulders and felt some pain but ignored it. The next day my left shoulder was popping and grinding, so i knew I screwd up at this point on something. The next day on Saturday I wakuep and my left trap is taller than my right trap and my shoulder still grinding. I thought of it to be a joint issue, so all of Sunday I'm trying to stretch my shoulder out to prepare for this week's training, my wife decided to give me a message (thank you Lord!!) And she found a large knot in my back, the size of a golf ball. She has been rubbing it out for the past 2 days and I'm seeing some results but I'm curious of how long it will take me to be able to workout my back again?? Today I did biceps and some lats and doing biceps iratated my back a little but when I did lat pull downs I could not proceed Into the exercise because I can feel the knot swelling. I herd to do foam rolling which I tried today but honestly did not feel the foam roller hitting my knot.
I believe the knot to be on my Teres minor or Teres major. I'm looking for advice on how to cope with this while working out? How long will it take to rub out the knot??

arditarose

Get a tennis ball or lacrosse ball up in there man. You have to grind it out. Though honestly, what you're describing sounds a little...worse? than a knot.

Anyway, I bring my tennis ball into the weight room with me and I even work on my back between sets. Opens everything up and pretty much all my lifts benefit from that.

kingkam21

I herd that as well. My wife has been rubbing it out pretty good with her thumbs and it hurts soooooo bad.
I'm having soreness in my traps and left side of my neck. Could a knot this larg cause my whole left side of my upper back to be effected?? I have never had a knot this large before and I am worried about my future training

Erik8484

See a physio, particularly if you're concerned

DearestWinter

This sounds more serious than a knot your wife can massage out. I would see a specialist.

ninerbuff

It may be a strain. How about NOT working out your back for a week and see what happens.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

kingkam21

ninerbuff wrote: »

It may be a strain. How about NOT working out your back for a week and see what happens.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I can try this. What do you think about shoulder workouts? Or other movements that I may want to avoid like military presses or squats???

kingkam21

DearestWinter wrote: »

This sounds more serious than a knot your wife can massage out. I would see a specialist.

I believe this to be the problem because when my wife is done destroying that knot, I can literally feel my calar bone adjusting as well as my shoulder. Im not 100% sure because I've never had this problem

ninerbuff

kingkam21 wrote: »

ninerbuff wrote: »

It may be a strain. How about NOT working out your back for a week and see what happens.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

I can try this. What do you think about shoulder workouts? Or other movements that I may want to avoid like military presses or squats???

I'd defer from any scapular contraction workouts for a week.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
[/quote]

rybo

The shoulder complex is a very tricky beast. Rest it and possibly see a PT if that doesn't help. I'm battling some minor issues myself and depending on the spot the lax ball hits, it triggers pain or sensation no where near the knot that it's touching.

rainbowbow

Just throwing some ideas out here...

first of all, you have got to look at the way you've been training. You say that back day is your favorite, so i'm wondering if you are starting to experience problems from overuse and repetitive movements.

It's so incredibly important to have adequate rest periods when performing a split-routine. When you workout you have GOT to have enough time to allow healing.

Secondly, if you are working out on a routine, you have GOT to change up what you're doing over time. There is something called the general adaptation syndrome and it looks something like this-

• Alarm reaction phase- This is the bodies initial response to a stressor. Commonly called the fight or flight mechanism. During this phase the body will rapidly heal itself and make adaptations to avoid injury. A common symptom during this period would be Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.
• Resistance phase- In this phase the greatest number of adaptations are made to keep up with increased physiological demand.
• Exhaustion phase- In this phase the body has depleted it's resources and is no longer able to keep up with the demand placed on it. Injury, fatigue, and the inability to adapt begins.

This process takes between 4 and 6 weeks when performing the SAME movements/routine every single week. This is why it's generally recommended that training be periodized and be kept within the first two phases of adaptation. In other words, if you've been going in the gym doing the same routine for months, not resting enough, or overusing these muscles it was only a matter of time.

You also don't mention anywhere that you've been performing SMR. If you haven't i highly recommend it as this can help break up adhesions you may have and prevent injury. A tool or product i recommend would either be the rumble roller beastie or the theracane for this area. Combined with a periodized training protocol, and adequate rest, this should help the problem tremendously.

There's something called the cumulative injury cycle as well.



Look familiar? Can you see where you are on the cycle?

Give it a rest for a while, release any adhesions you may have, and try to change up your training regimen over time. As someone who has experienced a whole hell of a lot of injuries because i didn't do the above including shoulder impingement, bursitis, unstable shoulder, and finally torn labrum.... take it from me.

p.s. if doing the above doesn't help and you continue having issues... go to a sports medicine physician! Don't wait like i did. They may recommend you get an injection or see a physical therapist.

msf74

kingkam21 wrote: »

I herd that as well. My wife has been rubbing it out pretty good with her thumbs and it hurts soooooo bad.
I'm having soreness in my traps and left side of my neck. Could a knot this larg cause my whole left side of my upper back to be effected?? I have never had a knot this large before and I am worried about my future training

If you want to be any kind of athlete you have to accept that injury comes with the territory and in most circumstances rehabbing the injury properly means greater long term results than any short term gain made by working through it.

Stop the massage for the time being. If it is a muscular injury that could make the damage worse, not better.

Try the usual stuff - rest the area completely for at least 72 hours, ice it, take anti-inflammatory medicine and then reasses. If it doesn't seem to be getting better see a spots physio as suggested.

kingkam21

rainbowbow wrote: »

Just throwing some ideas out here...

first of all, you have got to look at the way you've been training. You say that back day is your favorite, so i'm wondering if you are starting to experience problems from overuse and repetitive movements.

It's so incredibly important to have adequate rest periods when performing a split-routine. When you workout you have GOT to have enough time to allow healing.

Secondly, if you are working out on a routine, you have GOT to change up what you're doing over time. There is something called the general adaptation syndrome and it looks something like this-

• Alarm reaction phase- This is the bodies initial response to a stressor. Commonly called the fight or flight mechanism. During this phase the body will rapidly heal itself and make adaptations to avoid injury. A common symptom during this period would be Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.
• Resistance phase- In this phase the greatest number of adaptations are made to keep up with increased physiological demand.
• Exhaustion phase- In this phase the body has depleted it's resources and is no longer able to keep up with the demand placed on it. Injury, fatigue, and the inability to adapt begins.

This process takes between 4 and 6 weeks when performing the SAME movements/routine every single week. This is why it's generally recommended that training be periodized and be kept within the first two phases of adaptation. In other words, if you've been going in the gym doing the same routine for months, not resting enough, or overusing these muscles it was only a matter of time.

You also don't mention anywhere that you've been performing SMR. If you haven't i highly recommend it as this can help break up adhesions you may have and prevent injury. A tool or product i recommend would either be the rumble roller beastie or the theracane for this area. Combined with a periodized training protocol, and adequate rest, this should help the problem tremendously.

There's something called the cumulative injury cycle as well.



Look familiar? Can you see where you are on the cycle?

Give it a rest for a while, release any adhesions you may have, and try to change up your training regimen over time. As someone who has experienced a whole hell of a lot of injuries because i didn't do the above including shoulder impingement, bursitis, unstable shoulder, and finally torn labrum.... take it from me.

p.s. if doing the above doesn't help and you continue having issues... go to a sports medicine physician! Don't wait like i did. They may recommend you get an injection or see a physical therapist.

Wow, verry helpful information! The chart seams to connect the dots in my injury process. I had a muscle spasm a few weeks back. It was so bad I couldn't move my left side for at least an hour.
I do train back and legs twice a week because there such large muscle groups. Legs being on Mondays and Fridays and back on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. So my back has received the most damage, aside from working construction for 3 years.
For an injury like this, how long can it take for my back to take its original musculer alignment? Any idea?

kingkam21

msf74 wrote: »

kingkam21 wrote: »

I herd that as well. My wife has been rubbing it out pretty good with her thumbs and it hurts soooooo bad.
I'm having soreness in my traps and left side of my neck. Could a knot this larg cause my whole left side of my upper back to be effected?? I have never had a knot this large before and I am worried about my future training

If you want to be any kind of athlete you have to accept that injury comes with the territory and in most circumstances rehabbing the injury properly means greater long term results than any short term gain made by working through it.

Stop the massage for the time being. If it is a muscular injury that could make the damage worse, not better.

Try the usual stuff - rest the area completely for at least 72 hours, ice it, take anti-inflammatory medicine and then reasses. If it doesn't seem to be getting better see a spots physio as suggested.

Didn't think of the message to make it worse but yes it does make sense to add more irritation from pressure. Thank you for the advice!

rainbowbow

kingkam21 wrote: »

rainbowbow wrote: »

Just throwing some ideas out here...

first of all, you have got to look at the way you've been training. You say that back day is your favorite, so i'm wondering if you are starting to experience problems from overuse and repetitive movements.

It's so incredibly important to have adequate rest periods when performing a split-routine. When you workout you have GOT to have enough time to allow healing.

Secondly, if you are working out on a routine, you have GOT to change up what you're doing over time. There is something called the general adaptation syndrome and it looks something like this-

• Alarm reaction phase- This is the bodies initial response to a stressor. Commonly called the fight or flight mechanism. During this phase the body will rapidly heal itself and make adaptations to avoid injury. A common symptom during this period would be Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness.
• Resistance phase- In this phase the greatest number of adaptations are made to keep up with increased physiological demand.
• Exhaustion phase- In this phase the body has depleted it's resources and is no longer able to keep up with the demand placed on it. Injury, fatigue, and the inability to adapt begins.

This process takes between 4 and 6 weeks when performing the SAME movements/routine every single week. This is why it's generally recommended that training be periodized and be kept within the first two phases of adaptation. In other words, if you've been going in the gym doing the same routine for months, not resting enough, or overusing these muscles it was only a matter of time.

You also don't mention anywhere that you've been performing SMR. If you haven't i highly recommend it as this can help break up adhesions you may have and prevent injury. A tool or product i recommend would either be the rumble roller beastie or the theracane for this area. Combined with a periodized training protocol, and adequate rest, this should help the problem tremendously.

There's something called the cumulative injury cycle as well.



Look familiar? Can you see where you are on the cycle?

Give it a rest for a while, release any adhesions you may have, and try to change up your training regimen over time. As someone who has experienced a whole hell of a lot of injuries because i didn't do the above including shoulder impingement, bursitis, unstable shoulder, and finally torn labrum.... take it from me.

p.s. if doing the above doesn't help and you continue having issues... go to a sports medicine physician! Don't wait like i did. They may recommend you get an injection or see a physical therapist.

Wow, verry helpful information! The chart seams to connect the dots in my injury process. I had a muscle spasm a few weeks back. It was so bad I couldn't move my left side for at least an hour.
I do train back and legs twice a week because there such large muscle groups. Legs being on Mondays and Fridays and back on Tuesdays and Wednesdays. So my back has received the most damage, aside from working construction for 3 years.
For an injury like this, how long can it take for my back to take its original musculer alignment? Any idea?

well, as stated by another user you will want to perform something called RICE.

Rest
Ice
Compression
Elevation
+an anti-inflammatory

As niner said, i'd give it a week off completely (including any scapular contraction) and see how it goes. i'd also reduce the volume and weight when you hit it next. If you aren't feeling any better by then you may need to go to a PT.

It's hard to say how far along you've damaged it or if everything is a-okay. One thing i CAN say, is that the body will always go through movements on the path of least resistance. in other words, if you were in pain/had muscular adhesions and performed exercises/movements anyway it's very likely that it would be in an altered movement pattern. This can lead to muscular imbalances, postural problems, altered reciprocal inhibition, etc. Sometimes strengthening the antagonistic muscle and foam rolling/myofascial release on the tight muscle is necessary if this is the case.

As far as the comment someone made about NOT massaging, i would say i disagree. Applying static pressure for 30-ish seconds and breaking up any adhesions may be incredibly beneficial if it's a soft tissue problem.