Marion Bartoli

Flixie00

I was discussing the French tennis player Marion Bartoli with a French friend today, and she told me that Marion is not popular in France and gets called fat in the French press.

Looking at pictures of Marion she does sometimes carry a little extra weight, but most of the pictures show a strong (I am jealous of her arms) and fit woman.

I think its sad that Marion is getting so much criticism in her own country, and that the press expect all tennis players to look like Sharapova.

I know that I will be cheering on Marion in the final tomorrow.

scruffykaz

I'm not a big fan of the press anyway. I feel that they can promote unrealistic ideals. It'd be great if they focussed on Marion Bartoli's tennis ability rather than the size of her *kitten*! So what if she carries a little extra weight sometimes, don't we all! It's awful that celebrities are held up to such high standards and judge upon their appearance.

I wonder how stunningly perfect the journalists are that write these pieces. I'd much rather they report real news because if the size of somebody's *kitten* was news, I'm sure I'd be a (double page) front page spread!!

emergencytennis

I don't think you are representing the press fairly. I read a lot of (only English, admittedly) press about tennis, and I have never read anything about Bartoli's "weight". In my experience the press do not expect everyone to look like anyone.

I have read criticism of Ashleigh Barty's fitness (I am Australian). This regards her court coverage and general athleticism, and not her weight.

I am going for Lisicki - she had beaten 3 slam winners to make the final. Bartoli has beaten, um...

neandermagnon

the french press can go to hell. When are women going to be judged by what they can do rather than what they look like? She's clearly an elite athlete if she's competing at that level in tennis. She's obviously a very fit, healthy, athletic woman. I haven't really paid much attention to tennis, but looking at pics of her she has a large frame and a thick waist (i.e. "ruler" body type, or maybe she's an inverted triangle because she has really big shoulders), so even a small amount of extra fat on her is going to show a lot more than it would on a smaller framed person with more of an hourglass shape. She looks like her body fat percentage is in the healthy range, so there's no way she should be described as fat. She doesn't look like a bikini model but frankly who the hell cares, she's a tennis player and clearly a really good one, and not everyone is a tall, small framed hourglass body type. She's an athlete she should be judged on how she plays tennis, how strong she is, stuff like that, not on whether her waist is thicker than what would be required of a bikini model.

sarahellenx

I just googled this lady and - are you kidding me? people are calling HER fat? If that's the case I have no hope!!! stop the world - I'm getting off.

Damn French..

emergencytennis

A bit of perspective.

The OP's friend says that the French press says....

And my cousin says that Djoko's dog said...

emergencytennis

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/07/04/marion-bartoli-se-hisse-en-finale-de-wimbledon_3442536_3242.html

My French is not good, but that looks a lot like "great in offense, intractable in defense, impeccable in service, the French lass lost 3 tiny games against Flipkens, who wandered the courts like a ghost..."

Marion_

I don't know much about tennis but I just googled her and the results in French are: "Marion Bartoli fat", "Marion Bartoli ugly", and "Marion Bartoli weight" ! Can't believe how stupid people can be!!

I don't think she's very famous in France (compared to male French tennis players like Tsonga for example), I think people and the press are very sexists too when it come to female tennis...
Also, she wrote an article after the attacks against her weight, saying that she can't get sponsors because she's not as skinny, tall and blond as Maria Sharapova...

Anyway, I hope she wins

Marion_

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/07/04/marion-bartoli-se-hisse-en-finale-de-wimbledon_3442536_3242.html

My French is not good, but that looks a lot like "great in offense, intractable in defense, impeccable in service, the French lass lost 3 tiny games against Flipkens, who wandered the courts like a ghost..."

This is a very serious newspaper - they still exist

But here is another article: http://www.terrafemina.com/forme/nutrition/articles/27949-marion-bartoli-est-elle-trop-grosse-pour-gagner-wimbledon-2013-.html

"Is Marion Bartoli too fat to win Wimbledon?" O_O

emergencytennis

http://www.lemonde.fr/sport/article/2013/07/04/marion-bartoli-se-hisse-en-finale-de-wimbledon_3442536_3242.html

My French is not good, but that looks a lot like "great in offense, intractable in defense, impeccable in service, the French lass lost 3 tiny games against Flipkens, who wandered the courts like a ghost..."

This is a very serious newspaper - they still exist

But here is another article: http://www.terrafemina.com/forme/nutrition/articles/27949-marion-bartoli-est-elle-trop-grosse-pour-gagner-wimbledon-2013-.html

"Is Marion Bartoli too fat to win Wimbledon?" O_O

In this article, Bartoli is quoted, in 2010, criticising sponsors and their perceptions of beauty. The article rubbishes the idea that she is too fat.

sijomial

Wouldn't it be reasonable for an athlete's fitness and preparation/training to be questioned if they appear to be carrying too much weight (in the form of fat)?

The Brazillian footballer Ronaldo was remarkably chubby compared to his peers - maybe he would have been even better if he had worked harder on his diet and training?
His appearance was frequenlty commented on so it's not just a female athlete thing although I agree it's regretably more often a cross that female athletes have to bear if they don't happen to be both slim and pretty.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3771716/Top-10-fat-footballers.html

Calling her ugly though is disgusting - reminds me of the comedy sketch where two slobs in a pub say "hasn't Britney Spears let herself go"?

neandermagnon

Wouldn't it be reasonable for an athlete's fitness and preparation/training to be questioned if they appear to be carrying too much weight (in the form of fat)?

The Brazillian footballer Ronaldo was remarkably chubby compared to his peers - maybe he would have been even better if he had worked harder on his diet and training?
His appearance was frequenlty commented on so it's not just a female athlete thing although I agree it's regretably more often a cross that female athletes have to bear if they don't happen to be both slim and pretty.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3771716/Top-10-fat-footballers.html

Calling her ugly though is disgusting - reminds me of the comedy sketch where two slobs in a pub say "hasn't Britney Spears let herself go"?

Except that many people's definition of "too fat" is actually perfectly healthy. There is no way that Marion Bartoli is carrying too much fat, or enough fat to harm her performance. In fact it tends to go the other way, i.e. carrying too little fat can actually be a disadvantage in some sports. Powerlifters and other strength athletes tend to have higher body fat percentages than in other sports, because in order to develop an extreme level of strength, you have to gain muscle. To gain muscle you need to eat at a surplus, and that means gaining fat as well. If they cut to lose the fat, they also lose muscle with it, and with that comes a loss in strength. So up to a point, more body fat is inevitable if you are training to be as strong as you possibly can. BTW by carrying more body fat, I don't mean it's necessary to become obese... just that if you want to be a power lifter, you'll be stronger when your body fat percentage is in the higher end of the healthy range.

That's not the only example, but it is the case that cutting body fat below a certain level is purely about aesthetics, not about health or athletic performance. Ripped abs will not make you good at any sport, and in some sports, eating at a calorie deficit to achieve ripped abs will harm your athletic performance. If you eat and train for optimal performance, most athletes won't end up with ripped abs. Some will, because that's their body type, or having very low body fat is an advantage in their sport (e.g. long distance running).

It's a myth that very low body fat is the most healthy and athletic way to be. Most female fitness models have around 15% body fat, which is what level you usually need to have visible abs and muscle definition. Female body builders may cut as low as 13% body fat...... yet the healthy body fat percentage range for women is actually 18-28%. And optimal performance in most sports will mean having a body fat percentage in the healthy range, not the ripped abs/fitness model/bodybuilder range. That applies for both men and women, although the actual ranges are different because women carry more essential body fat than men.

So while actually being over-fat (28%bf+) or obese (35%bf+) probably will harm your performance in sports (other than possible exceptions like sumo wrestling) - what society expects people, women especially, to look like is not actually the most healthy amount of body fat, or the amount for optimal athletic ability (although it depends on the sport). Marion Bartoli probably plays tennis better with the amount of fat that she has, than she would if she continued to train while eating at a deficit to get her body fat percentage down to 15%, because her ability to train would suffer, and her ability to perform and play well with it. Probably not by much, but by enough to cost her in international tournaments. And she would get no health benefit from it whatsoever, as her body fat percentage is in the healthy range, and there's no health benefit to being 15% body fat as opposed to 25% body fat, in fact for some women their health will suffer from that.

sijomial

Wouldn't it be reasonable for an athlete's fitness and preparation/training to be questioned if they appear to be carrying too much weight (in the form of fat)?

The Brazillian footballer Ronaldo was remarkably chubby compared to his peers - maybe he would have been even better if he had worked harder on his diet and training?
His appearance was frequenlty commented on so it's not just a female athlete thing although I agree it's regretably more often a cross that female athletes have to bear if they don't happen to be both slim and pretty.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/3771716/Top-10-fat-footballers.html

Calling her ugly though is disgusting - reminds me of the comedy sketch where two slobs in a pub say "hasn't Britney Spears let herself go"?

Except that many people's definition of "too fat" is actually perfectly healthy. There is no way that Marion Bartoli is carrying too much fat, or enough fat to harm her performance. In fact it tends to go the other way, i.e. carrying too little fat can actually be a disadvantage in some sports. Powerlifters and other strength athletes tend to have higher body fat percentages than in other sports, because in order to develop an extreme level of strength, you have to gain muscle. To gain muscle you need to eat at a surplus, and that means gaining fat as well. If they cut to lose the fat, they also lose muscle with it, and with that comes a loss in strength. So up to a point, more body fat is inevitable if you are training to be as strong as you possibly can. BTW by carrying more body fat, I don't mean it's necessary to become obese... just that if you want to be a power lifter, you'll be stronger when your body fat percentage is in the higher end of the healthy range.

That's not the only example, but it is the case that cutting body fat below a certain level is purely about aesthetics, not about health or athletic performance. Ripped abs will not make you good at any sport, and in some sports, eating at a calorie deficit to achieve ripped abs will harm your athletic performance. If you eat and train for optimal performance, most athletes won't end up with ripped abs. Some will, because that's their body type, or having very low body fat is an advantage in their sport (e.g. long distance running).

It's a myth that very low body fat is the most healthy and athletic way to be. Most female fitness models have around 15% body fat, which is what level you usually need to have visible abs and muscle definition. Female body builders may cut as low as 13% body fat...... yet the healthy body fat percentage range for women is actually 18-28%. And optimal performance in most sports will mean having a body fat percentage in the healthy range, not the ripped abs/fitness model/bodybuilder range. That applies for both men and women, although the actual ranges are different because women carry more essential body fat than men.

So while actually being over-fat (28%bf+) or obese (35%bf+) probably will harm your performance in sports (other than possible exceptions like sumo wrestling) - what society expects people, women especially, to look like is not actually the most healthy amount of body fat, or the amount for optimal athletic ability (although it depends on the sport). Marion Bartoli probably plays tennis better with the amount of fat that she has, than she would if she continued to train while eating at a deficit to get her body fat percentage down to 15%, because her ability to train would suffer, and her ability to perform and play well with it. Probably not by much, but by enough to cost her in international tournaments. And she would get no health benefit from it whatsoever, as her body fat percentage is in the healthy range, and there's no health benefit to being 15% body fat as opposed to 25% body fat, in fact for some women their health will suffer from that.

Understand what you are saying but that wasn't really my point - if a sports journalist questions her fitness for tennis because she is carrying too much fat (or weight, or muscle...) I would say that's reasonable comment.
Marion Bartoli has an atypical body shape for elite female tennis players - but it seems to be working for her. If the journalist's point is that if she was lighter she would be faster round the court or have better stamina then that's his point of view. She is also noticeably stronger and more athletic than many of her peer group.

Sportsmen that are different from the norm do attract comment, Ronaldo in football (too fat?), Jason Robinson in rugby (too short?), Usain Bolt (too tall for sprinting?). All of these are greats in their fields but my point is that commenting on the difference is reasonable - personal attacks because a sportsman or woman doesn't comply to a certain perception of attractiveness shouldn't be acceptable.

jimmyalice1984

Who gives a damn what any misinformed ignoramus journalist writes? She looks healthy and strong to me, we need more women in the public arena who look like this, I bet there's a lot of men out there who appreciate the sight of Marions' luscious bod flying around the tennis courts.

emergencytennis

Who gives a damn what any misinformed ignoramus journalist writes? She looks healthy and strong to me, we need more women in the public arena who look like this, I bet there's a lot of men out there who appreciate the sight of Marions' luscious bod flying around the tennis courts.

We have yet to read a single disparaging quote regarding Bartoli on this thread.

Equating her sporting achievements to the appreciation of her luscious bod is sexist and demeaning.

toutmonpossible

French women don't get fat because they don't eat and they smoke. Bartoli looks like a healthy, attractive athlete to me. I long ago stopped thinking that French women are automatically experts in manners of style and appearance. Sports coverage is sexist, as are many things in the world. Not enough people seem to care.

Hadabetter

Quick - Everyone name their top 5 favorite overweight world class elite athletes. I'll go have breakfast while you work on that list.

kkzmom11

I agree completely that is it very sad that a fit woman (not skinny) is being called names instead of being shown as the wanted example of healthy. I cheer Marion for being fit and healthy, and i don't watch Tennis. LOL

emergencytennis

French women don't get fat because they don't eat and they smoke. Bartoli looks like a healthy, attractive athlete to me. I long ago stopped thinking that French women are automatically experts in manners of style and appearance. Sports coverage is sexist, as are many things in the world. Not enough people seem to care.

French women don't blah blah some generalisation.

Bartoli looks like a healthy, attractive athlete to me.

I long ago stopped thinking that women are automatically experts in anything.

Sports coverage is sexist, as are many things in the world. Don't be the person who doesn't care.

kkzmom11

I'll get back to you on that list in about 50 years. LOL.

Marion_

French women don't get fat because they don't eat and they smoke.

LOL I really wish French women didn't get fat!!

Flixie00

Quick - Everyone name their top 5 favorite overweight world class elite athletes. I'll go have breakfast while you work on that list.

OK, my list is not current, but here goes ...

Paul Gascoigne
Ian Botham
Phil Taylor
George Forman
Phil Mickelson

:devil:

jimmyalice1984

Who gives a damn what any misinformed ignoramus journalist writes? She looks healthy and strong to me, we need more women in the public arena who look like this, I bet there's a lot of men out there who appreciate the sight of Marions' luscious bod flying around the tennis courts.

We have yet to read a single disparaging quote regarding Bartoli on this thread.

Equating her sporting achievements to the appreciation of her luscious bod is sexist and demeaning.

Trying to overshadow her sporting achievements by criticising her for not having a very low body fat percentage is sexist and demeaning and damaging to young impressionable females reading that sort of garbage. If her prowess as a world class athlete was impeded by her bfp she wouldn't be there so nobody would have anything to say about her. So obviously the 'journalists' who are writing this are only interested in aesthetics. If you want to call anybody in on being sexist and demeaning I suggest you take your anonymous self to a place on the internet where you can contact these people and tell them exactly how you feel. Have a lovely weekend :glasses:

emergencytennis

Who gives a damn what any misinformed ignoramus journalist writes? She looks healthy and strong to me, we need more women in the public arena who look like this, I bet there's a lot of men out there who appreciate the sight of Marions' luscious bod flying around the tennis courts.

We have yet to read a single disparaging quote regarding Bartoli on this thread.

Equating her sporting achievements to the appreciation of her luscious bod is sexist and demeaning.

Trying to overshadow her sporting achievements by criticising her for not having a very low body fat percentage is sexist and demeaning and damaging to young impressionable females reading that sort of garbage. If her prowess as a world class athlete was impeded by her bfp she wouldn't be there so nobody would have anything to say about her. So obviously the 'journalists' who are writing this are only interested in aesthetics. If you want to call anybody in on being sexist and demeaning I suggest you take your anonymous self to a place on the internet where you can contact these people and tell them exactly how you feel. Have a lovely weekend :glasses:

Crikey.

No journalist has been quoted on this thread. At all. Nothing about body fat percentage, by anyone.

You said "I bet there's a lot of men out there who appreciate the sight of Marion's luscious bod flying about the tennis courts."

You are the only person who commented on how this athlete might be appreciated in a sexual manner. I say that to comment upon an athlete (or anyone) in this way is demeaning.

So that is how I feel and I look forward to the weekend.

Hadabetter

Quick - Everyone name their top 5 favorite overweight world class elite athletes. I'll go have breakfast while you work on that list.

OK, my list is not current, but here goes ...

Paul Gascoigne
Ian Botham
Phil Taylor
George Forman
Phil Mickelson

:devil:

Oh Flixie!

Paul Gascoigne - I think not.
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Ian Botham - This guy? Are you kidding me?
[/URL]


Phil Taylor - Darts? I ask for elite world-class athletes and you bring me darts?


George Forman - - Everybody gets old...


Phil Mickelson - If you do it while wearing slacks, what you do does not make you an athlete.

Flixie00

Yes!

Catlady87

I've just seen her play and while I would never ever call her fat I noticed that she was not like those really tall, stick thin players (Sharapova). Just googled her stats and she's reportedly 140lbs and 5ft 7, which to me doesn't seem overweight and knowing that she is an athlete a lot of that will be muscle.
Not in a million years is she fat, but she also does not have a fine bone structure. Makes me wonder if anyone would consider Serena Williams fat? She looks nothing like Sharapova either.
Very annoying that there is still this attitude that to be successful, sexy, attractive, worthy or whatever you have to be tall and skinny!