Gaining muscle whilst losing weight

nooneyuk88

Hi all,

Just starting loosing weight, about 14 lbs so far, and I reckon I only need to loose another 9 or so to get to my goal weight. I'm of slim build, 5, 11" and currently weight 145. Last fancy scales I stepped onto said I was 10% bf.

When I say goal weight, it is in an arbitrary sense as really I wouldn't mind weighing more. Ideally I'm looking to loose another 2-3 inches off my gut.

Using mfp to restrict my intake to around 1600 calories, after adjusting for exercise. I play squash, tennis or badminton at least 2 times a week so cardio is covered. Just started 5x5 and enjoying it, never really used free weights before.

So after a distractingly long pre amble my question is this:

1) Will my lifting progression suffer because I'm in a deficit, despite imo having ample fat reserves to go on.

2) Is it possible to put on muscle/ transfer fat to muscle whilst eating at a deficit or

3) Should I lose what I need to lose before starting a slow 200-300 deficit to bulk.

I rather be slim and toned than fat and muscle as hell.

Thanks for your comments in advance.

HamsterManV2

A couple of things. First off, if you truly are 10% bodyfat, you do NOT have "ample reserves" to go on - you are skinny. If you want to stay and remain lean while building muscle, that is fine. The slang term online is "ottermode". Just be aware that you will build muscle more slowly than if you did a full bulk and then cut afterwards (something I would recommend).

First off, you need to build muscle. Since you don't want to do a full bulk, I suggest do a lean-bulk (eat at +250 calories over maintenance). This will keep fat gains minimal while building muscle. I know you want to cut and have abs, but you don't have any abs to show (at 10%, your abs should be clearly visible so if you can't see em, you don't got em). For 6 months, forget about the 6 pack - focus on building the ice chest to put the 6pack in. Once you built said muscle, cut and reveal it in all its glory.

Programming wise, yes you can do SL 5x5, though I suggest after 2 months of it, you switch to ICF 3x5 - it is basically the same thing with additional accessory work after the main lifts, which will help your aesthetics much more greatly than stronglifts or Starting strength.

Summary / Answering your questions:
1- you have no ample fat reserves, your progress on SL will stall very early, and you won't build muscle. go on a slow bulk of +250 calories over TDEE to gain muscle and minimal fat, then cut after done program (i.e. squat 1.5x bodyweight, bench 1xBW, deadlift 1.75xBW, OHP .75xBW.

2-You can build muscle on a cut as a noob. You can also build muscle doing Zamba dance class as a noob. you can do anything as a noob and get muscles, but none of it will take you very far. Noob Gains+bulk = your chance to build the most muscle in the shortest amount of time. Cut after.
Seriously. People go on steroids to match this level of rapid muscle gains because it doesn't last. Imagining being able to add +15lbs to your squat every week! The intermediate adds +5 to their max every week, and the advanced adds +5 to their max every month. Only the novice can boast such rapid strength gains.

3- You don't need to lose anymore IMO. If anything, putting on more muscle (at the same weight or even 10lbs heavier) will make you look better than you do - you can higher muscle mass and lower fat % at a higher weight. See my chart at the bottom - putting on more muscle at the same/a little more bodyfat will make you look much better.

Your goal is 'bodybuilding'. After you make good strength gains from SL / ICF, you can find an intermediate bodybuilding program afterwards to stay lean and muscular (i.e. PHAT or PHUL or PPLPPLx).

Edit:
Look at the various body types here. I am guessing your goals are between 2A to 4C. As long as your diet is on point, the above advice will get you there. Where are you at now?

joncooper1980

Id seriously question your BF being 10% if a) a scale told you so and b) you have 2-3 inches to lose from your gut.

BF scales are sh1t! They flat out don't work. Go to your local gym and see if a personal trainer can take your skinfolds with a calliper.

At 10% body fat you will have visible abs. Visible abs very rarely have 2-3 more inches to lose.

In relation to building muscle while in a calorie deficit the poster above says everything you need to know.

StealthHealth

nooneyuk88 wrote: »

1) Will my lifting progression suffer because I'm in a deficit, despite imo having ample fat reserves to go on.

Eventually yes, but in the short term (possibly even a few months) no.

nooneyuk88 wrote: »

2) Is it possible to put on muscle/ transfer fat to muscle whilst eating at a deficit or

3) Should I lose what I need to lose before starting a slow 200-300 deficit surplus to bulk.

It is possible, this is known as "Recomp", but it tends to be slow, slower than adding muscle and some fat and then dieting to lose that fat whilst retaining as much muscle as possible (known as the "bulking and then cutting").

Note: prob a typo but I corrected your quote above - you need surplus to bulk.

Best wishes

StealthHealth

Whether you chose a recomp or bulk then cut is a personal preference but if you simply can not stand that idea of adding excess fat during a bulk cycle then the slower (and arguably more difficult) recomp method is the option for you.

jakeycork

Not possible.

StealthHealth

jakeycork wrote: »

Not possible.

incorrect

nooneyuk88

Firstly I've been away but Thanks so much for all the replies guys, I really appreciate it.

Despite some scepticism I think 10% body fat is about right, I have virtually no fat on my arms and legs, the stone I lost has made moobs virtually disappear, however, I could definitely loose 3 inches from my waist/belly as most of my fat is belly and hips. Nearly everyone questioned why I was watching what I eat as it only shows on my stomach and it's not out much.

There are abs there somewhere, I catch fleeting glimpses of them after a good workout, even through the fat but I will increase my workload on then a bit more.

After reading all you comments I think I'm gonna lift whilst in a deficit, limiting my expectations for progression, get my belly in check before moving towards a clean bulk with all the joys of noob progression. I will also look into ICF 3x5

Thanks again for the wisdom.

I look forward to 700 more calories a day and bulging muscles

psuLemon

Those fancy scales can be off by as much as 9%. If you still have 3" of fat to cut off your stomach, these guys are right, it's unlikely you are 10% body fat. Either way, it doesn't really matter.

nooneyuk88

Yeah I guess it's not that relevant. I will be running a deficit for at least another 4 weeks, % body fat is not my main measurement, it's waist measurement.

But I understand if my bf% gets to low bulking with a small surplus will be less efficient that a higher bf% and the same/bigger surplus.

diverroboz

Please check your body fat percentage by going to Google, search for US NAVY BODYFAT. Use a tape measure and scales to answer the online calculator and boom, you'll have a VERY accurate and simple way to get your accurate body fat figure!

HamsterManV2

Short version: Lift, eat as many single ingredient foods in a deficit to cut or bulk to gain, be consistent, profit in a few months. Cheers

pwillis20

Personally I've had better results with high volume, high intensity training. Especially for cutting up my midsection, something similar to HIIT training. So I would suggest atleast looking into it, but it may not be right for you. IMO if your goal is aesthetics or bodybuilding then don't worry about how much weight your pushing, but rather the contraction and stimulation of the muscle. I've never like bulking then cutting because you will lose some muscle, you will feel smaller and weaker and it plays a tough mental game. Consider shredding your core until your happy, then maintain for a few weeks before upping your calories for a bulk. I would suggest a slower bulk, if you still have 2 to 3 inches to lose then your body stores fat easily and you don't want to gain the fat back and contemplate cutting again. Everyone's different and has different opinions, so choose something your comfortable with and will stay consistent with, at the end of the day it's consistency that's going to lead to results.