Strength training for distance running.

workout_junkee

I am currently training for a half in September and full in October. I run 4 days a week and do PiYo three days a week. I would like to add 1-2 days of weights but hate to overdo it. What is the best strength training while running distance (body weight, low weight high rep or high weight low rep).

SezxyStef

I firmly believe for strength training low reps high weights.

I lift heavy and run (not for distance) now...I lifted for 2 years before I started running and I do compound lifts like weight low bar squats and dead lifts.

I found that when I started running (on non leg lifting days) that my legs did not get "tired" at all...ever.

DreesPerformanceTraining

^^^ Good advice from SezxyStef. Power/Strength training is the name of the game for distance athletes. You already get all your endurance training from your other training.

scorpio516

workout_junkee wrote: »

I am currently training for a half in September and full in October. I run 4 days a week and do PiYo three days a week. I would like to add 1-2 days of weights but hate to overdo it. What is the best strength training while running distance (body weight, low weight high rep or high weight low rep).

Run more. No lifting will be as useful for running then running more will be.
In other words, running is the best use of your time to be a faster runner.

msf74

What is your specific goal(s) in adding in the strength training into your routine? Obviously if it is important to you to get stronger generally then a high weight / low rep routine will be more targeted to that goal.

If your goal is something else (e.g to get faster as a runner) your efforts may be best suited elsewhere.

workout_junkee

Thanks everyone. My goal is to get toned. I am not necessarily looking to get faster:).

haugentimo

IMO - If you are doing ultra-events (half is an ultra) you do need weights. However, with weights you need to build muscular endurance(ME). If you use too much weight and move too fast, you are building neuro-muscular strength not ME. You really need to to focus on weight with more reps and duration than you would think possible. I.E. Kettle Bell Lunges - 5 sets with 3-4 minute of reps. The number of reps are not important compared to the length of an individual rep. The slower you move and the more resistance your put on your muscles that more you will build that ME that you need for ultra.
I have found the most effective cross training for me is Yoga Skulpt or Bar Class. These classes are focused on ME not NM. I use many of these movements in a 1hour class and I perform them on my own for desired workouts.

acampbe2umd

I lift 4 days a week and run 3 days and mix in swimming, pilates and stairs for variety. While I've never done a full, I do halves and ragnar every year. If you're not working on speed or have specific running goals beyond finishing your races, I would go low reps, heavy weight for your strength training.

DreesPerformanceTraining

Suggesting to not do resistance training or only doing muscular endurance resistance training is dangerous advice. That is the reason over 50% of runners get overuse injuries each year. Strength training is important because it improves running economy and greatly reduces the likelihood of overuse injuries.

msf74

workout_junkee wrote: »

Thanks everyone. My goal is to get toned. I am not necessarily looking to get faster:).

Toned is generally meant to describe a look where a reasonable amount of muscle mass is shown off by relatively low body fat. Bearing this in mind you could use either approach and get good results.

Personally I would swap out some of the PiYo for a decent resistance training programme using compound movements 2-3 times a week while keeping calories in check and diet in good condition.

StealthHealth

haugentimo wrote: »

IMO - If you are doing ultra-events (half is an ultra) you do need weights.

I'm not sure if there is a true definition but I was under the impression that an ultra event would be > Mara. Certainly in the UK these seem to be timed events (10hrs or 12hrs for example) or 32 miles or 50k and up.

And this stuff...

haugentimo wrote: »

However, with weights you need to build muscular endurance(ME). If you use too much weight and move too fast, you are building neuro-muscular strength not ME. You really need to to focus on weight with more reps and duration than you would think possible. I.E. Kettle Bell Lunges - 5 sets with 3-4 minute of reps. The number of reps are not important compared to the length of an individual rep. The slower you move and the more resistance your put on your muscles that more you will build that ME that you need for ultra.
I have found the most effective cross training for me is Yoga Skulpt or Bar Class. These classes are focused on ME not NM. I use many of these movements in a 1hour class and I perform them on my own for desired workouts.

Seriously?

+1 for this suggestion...

DreesPerformanceTraining wrote: »

^^^ Good advice from SezxyStef. Power/Strength training is the name of the game for distance athletes. You already get all your endurance training from your other training.

and @SezxyStef's comment

McCloud33

scorpio516 wrote: »

workout_junkee wrote: »

I am currently training for a half in September and full in October. I run 4 days a week and do PiYo three days a week. I would like to add 1-2 days of weights but hate to overdo it. What is the best strength training while running distance (body weight, low weight high rep or high weight low rep).

Run more. No lifting will be as useful for running then running more will be.
In other words, running is the best use of your time to be a faster runner.

Disagree with this entirely. There's a reason to cross train and why athletes of all sports lift weights and not just "do more of whatever you're going to do". Cross training helps even out muscle imbalances and strengthen weak points. I was always a runner/soccer player and never touched weights until a couple years ago (25years of running/soccer with no weights). I could feel a noticeable difference in my speed and endurance when I started weight training along with my running that I never had when I was just running.

Strengthening those weak point also help to prevent injury as your body mechanics can be more natural/fluid and not change to compensate for those other weak areas.

All of that being said, I agree with the general consensus of lower reps/higher weights, 2-3x per week, full body lifting. That will give you the most bang for your buck and won't leave your muscles so tired from a leg day that you can't run the next.

JenHuedy

Another vote for lifting heavy. I did Stronglifts 5x5 3x per week over the winter. Now that I'm upping mileage to train for a half, I switched to 3x5 2x per week. Lifting has been a huge benefit to my running. Hills are so easy I barely notice them and my hips & knees rarely bother me anymore.

lporter229

I supplement my running with strength training. When I am not in a marathon training cycle, I use weights for my upper and lower body strength training. But during a training cycle, I only rely on body weight exercises for my lower body and core. I have found that adding weight just causes too much fatigue during my runs and has an overall negative impact when I am hitting 40+ miles per week. I also do yoga and pilates during marathon training. I think it's important for runners to keep a solid, strong core to help avoid injury.

msf74

lporter229 wrote: »

I supplement my running with strength training. When I am not in a marathon training cycle, I use weights for my upper and lower body strength training. But during a training cycle, I only rely on body weight exercises for my lower body and core. I have found that adding weight just causes too much fatigue during my runs and has an overall negative impact when I am hitting 40+ miles per week. I also do yoga and pilates during marathon training. I think it's important for runners to keep a solid, strong core to help avoid injury.

That's a pretty good strategy I think.

Once passed the HM stage adequate recovery time will become a much bigger issue.

Rabid_Hamster

I agree with the general consensus, that strength training will help (low rep, high weights). Don't ignore strengthening your core too. Your back and abs are important. Please ensure to include lunges and/or squats. It swill strengthen the muscles in the knees, hamstrings, and gluts that otherwise wouldn't develop as fast as your quads will from the running. Balancing the strength of opposing muscle groups will reduce the chances of injury and discomfort.

The_Enginerd

msf74 wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

I supplement my running with strength training. When I am not in a marathon training cycle, I use weights for my upper and lower body strength training. But during a training cycle, I only rely on body weight exercises for my lower body and core. I have found that adding weight just causes too much fatigue during my runs and has an overall negative impact when I am hitting 40+ miles per week. I also do yoga and pilates during marathon training. I think it's important for runners to keep a solid, strong core to help avoid injury.

That's a pretty good strategy I think.

Once passed the HM stage adequate recovery time will become a much bigger issue.

My experience agrees with this. I was doing a 5x5 program when I added in running. Once I got to the HM level, recovery became an issue and my lower body lift numbers suffered. I now am now a runner averaging 45 MPW with peaks of 60 MPW during training cycles, but I still try to incorporate strength training and ESPECIALLY core training to support my running and help with injury prevention. I have a prior/ongoing disc injury and without a strong core, I suffer. My core work is prescribed by my PT plan and similar to Pilates.

In terms of higher reps/lower weights vs. heavy weight/low reps training, I've seen reasoning like the above posts in this thread to support either, but no studies or solid evidence to support one vs. the other. I know some runners who do heavy 5x5, and some who do just bodyweight exercises at fairly high reps. I would choose the one that fits best with your preference and situation, but do incorporate some strength training into your program.

msf74

The_Enginerd wrote: »

msf74 wrote: »

lporter229 wrote: »

I supplement my running with strength training. When I am not in a marathon training cycle, I use weights for my upper and lower body strength training. But during a training cycle, I only rely on body weight exercises for my lower body and core. I have found that adding weight just causes too much fatigue during my runs and has an overall negative impact when I am hitting 40+ miles per week. I also do yoga and pilates during marathon training. I think it's important for runners to keep a solid, strong core to help avoid injury.

That's a pretty good strategy I think.

Once passed the HM stage adequate recovery time will become a much bigger issue.

My experience agrees with this. I was doing a 5x5 program when I added in running. Once I got to the HM level, recovery became an issue and my lower body lift numbers suffered. I now am now a runner averaging 45 MPW with peaks of 60 MPW during training cycles, but I still try to incorporate strength training and ESPECIALLY core training to support my running and help with injury prevention. I have a prior/ongoing disc injury and without a strong core, I suffer. My core work is prescribed by my PT plan and similar to Pilates.

In terms of higher reps/lower weights vs. heavy weight/low reps training, I've seen reasoning like the above posts in this thread to support either, but no studies or solid evidence to support one vs. the other. I know some runners who do heavy 5x5, and some who do just bodyweight exercises at fairly high reps. I would choose the one that fits best with your preference and situation, but do incorporate some strength training into your program.

Yup.

I think it is important for endurance athletes to incorporate sensible resistance training into their routines to help with muscle imbalances and so on and for longer distances in a periodised manner as neccesary. Does it need to be strength training (in other words improving neuro-muscular adaptation or the ability of the CNS to move a heavy load?) Not really in my view although I would be open to seeing evidence that it has a particular benefit however.

Packerjohn

DreesPerformanceTraining wrote: »

Suggesting to not do resistance training or only doing muscular endurance resistance training is dangerous advice. That is the reason over 50% of runners get overuse injuries each year. Strength training is important because it improves running economy and greatly reduces the likelihood of overuse injuries.

I would agree based on my ownexperience regarding injuries. No issues when lifting while my non lifting friends we laid up during their running training

I tried a little different approach on lifting legs during one marathon training cycle. One leg day worked heavy basic movements 5-8 reps The next leg day did single leg work, squats deadlifts, linges, step ups, etc in the 8-12 rep range.

Seemed to work well for me. Appreciate any thoughts/comments

sunflowerhippi

I hated running, still do. BUT I tried it when I started loosing weight. Couldn't run a mile. A year or so later of doing stronglifts 5x5 went and bored ran a 5k. Yup just hoped on the trail and ran a 35min 5k after a lifting session at the gym. Not the fastest but not my goal. Lifting was enough cardio and muscle workout to make someone who couldn't do a mile be able to do 3 after a normal workout.

I would defiantly suggest adding in a nice lifting workout 2 or 3 days a week.

Equus5374

Go online and look up The Run Experience. Tons of great cross-training and strength training videos, plus very helpful drills, all based on running. The videos are free.

Libertysfate

I'm not expert but I find building muscle will help. I cross train every other day, run 5 days a week and strength train at least 3 days, with deadlifting as the heaviest form of lifting I do. Personally, it hasn't hurt me any and I find that I've gradually gotten faster, of course that could just be from training. I've ran 2 halfs and several 5ks, 10ks, etc. currently in the middle of training for my first full marathon.

I got my running plan from here halhigdon.com/training/51135/Marathon-Training-Guide

filovirus76

I would recommend full body/core strength training. Stay away from iso lifting and stick with squats, deadlifts, free weights, and cable machines. There is not a great need to bench press or do bicep curls for runners.

blues4miles

scorpio516 wrote: »

workout_junkee wrote: »

I am currently training for a half in September and full in October. I run 4 days a week and do PiYo three days a week. I would like to add 1-2 days of weights but hate to overdo it. What is the best strength training while running distance (body weight, low weight high rep or high weight low rep).

Run more. No lifting will be as useful for running then running more will be.
In other words, running is the best use of your time to be a faster runner.

While I agree with your premise (that only running will make one a better runner), lifting can be hugely beneficial to avoiding injury. And hugely beneficial to a lot of other non-running aspects of your life. The OP is already running 4x a week. I think that's perfect.

Agree with what other folks are saying, 3x a week of a full body program. Drop the piyo if you are running out of time. Do whatever weight program you will stick with. Low reps / high weight will probably be the most immediately and aesthetically beneficial, but you may have different goals. Don't drop running below 3x a week unless you want to get worse at running (or don't care about making progress as a runner).

stealthq

OP's goal is not to be a better runner. She's wanting to improve physical appearance.

OP, your best bet is to pick a progressive strength program that doesn't wear you out, and keep to a slight deficit. I think most people would be less wiped out with a power/strength focused program, keeping the weight high and reps low. But, some people will feel better with lower weights in the hypertrophy range.

One thing I can suggest, don't waste your time with isolation movements. Do whole body exercises. There's not enough bang for the buck with isolation moves and you'll want to be efficient in how you use your time and energy.

workout_junkee

Thanks everyone. I appreciate everyone's input. I may drop to PiYo 2 days and add strength 1 days:).

GiddyupTim

Everybody is on the strength training bandwagon!
I do it. I believe cross-training has benefits. I like lifting. BUT I can tell you it really interferes with your running!
Try going out and running five miles at your usual speed the day after heavy deadlifting, and/or squatting.
You will not be able to run your usual speed.
If you are okay with being slower some days, that's fine. I am, because I think it is advantageous for me to have some days when I spare my body the pounding of running.
But, if you are trying to race, or trying to get faster, or trying to go longer, it can be a bad thing to get used to running slower -- counterproductive, that is, to improving your running.
Now, I have seen many of the running "strength" programs, like what Alberto Salazar does with his runners. It is NOT a heavy lifting program the way lifters think of a heavy lifting program. It is not like a 5x5 program or a Starting Strength program. They are usually kettlebells and barbell lunges. They do not call for squats in heavy sets of three reps, not for distance runners.
I think we get a little confused on this website when the people who are primarily weightlifters answer this question. Yes, it is good to be well-rounded and have some strength if you are a runner. But, no, you really improve on strength training with heavy lifting and improve your running at the same time.

Vladimirnapkin

Some great responses here. From a running perspective, strength training is great. More running is also great up to a point. One word of advice is to do your weight training on a running "hard day," so that you can really recover on your "recovery days." All training (body building or running, etc) is built on stress followed by recovery. Both are critical for progress.