Question about the starvation mode myth
Replies
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Wow, lots of unnecessary arguments in this thread, with almost everyone missing the obvious stuff!
OP, with your stats, you are already at a healthy weight, so your rate of any further loss will be really slow and your calories have to be on point. I peeked at your diary and it looks like you aren't logging. My suggestions:- Set your goal to one-half lb per week.
- If you don't have one, buy a digital food scale.
- Start logging everything, accurately and consistently, using the food scale as often as possible for ALL solids.
- Log your exercise and eat back half your calories.
- Do this for 6-8 weeks and see what happens.
If you aren't using a food scale, small miscalculations in portion size could be causing your problem. I am 5'4", and at 140 lbs, I thought I was eating @ 1500 cals and wasn't losing. I got a food scale and soon realized I was actually eating more like 1800 cals. I started eating 1500 cals for real, increased my steps, and was able to lose 15 lbs, but it was S-L-O-W.
Sorry your thread was hijacked unnecessarily. Starvation mode is not something the average dieter needs to worry about, whether it technically exists or not. Best of luck!
ETA: As others have suggested, search the forum for "recomp", this might be a better plan for you. But as another 5'4" woman, I am considering going down to 120 now that I've lived at 125ish for a few months, so I understand wanting to lose a little more!
This is the post you need to pay attention to, @jvs125. You think you're eating 1200 to 1500 calories per day, but you aren't. With your stats, you have very little wiggle room and a food scale is going to play an integral part in your progress. I'm 5'3" and 112 pounds with my low being 109; getting to that weight without a food scale would be far more difficult.3 -
How confusing, the OP isn't even logging.
A starvation mode mechanism as proposed by the cowgirl makes no sense, if the body isn't getting enough fuel to run on why would it suddenly switch to storing part of that fuel thereby increasing the shortfall.
It's like switching the engines off on a plane coming in to land with low fuel levels, in order to conserve fuel.
This^^
OP Do you log your food somewhere else?1 -
evildeadedd wrote: »If starvation mode isn't a myth where are all the fat people in the pictures of holocaust survivor? As you lose weight it takes less calories to maintain, that's not starvation, that's physics. Every scientific study I have ever read shows the effects of calorie restriction on metabolism is very minor. The Minnesota starvation experiment showed a decrease of I believe 40% but thst was after the participants had very very low body fat.
If starvation mode was a real thing no-one would ever die of starvation.
I like this !0 -
cerise_noir wrote: »OP, why the variation in calories? Do you have a fitbit linked?
Also, are you using a food scale? With so little to lose, your deficit would be very small, so you'd have to be incredibly accurate.. even with 100 cals extra a day, you could be wiping out your deficit, so eating more would not the solution. Weight gain is caused by eating more than you need to maintain.
No. The way you described it, no. If it was the case, how do people starve to death? Please provide sources to prove the starvation mode theory..biocowgirl wrote: »Starvation mode is not a myth, if you are severely restricting your calories you can cause your body to store more fat and build less muscle, even when working out. Check out his nifty calculator to see how much you should be eating (complete with breakdown of your macros): https://legionathletics.com/how-many-calories-should-i-eat/
And this great, although lengthy article about building muscle while losing fat : http://www.muscleforlife.com/build-muscle-lose-fat/
Ewww. Don't call Starvation Mode a theory. Gravity is a theory. Evolution is a theory. Germ Theory is a theory. Starvation mode is a joke at best and outright lies at worst.3 -
Op your diary is blank but yet you are saying you believe you could be in starvation mode so think that's why your not losing ? Correct me if I'm wrong .
Your likely eating more then you think. Get yourself a food scale. Weigh all your solids. Measure your liquids. Log it all accurately. Keep in mind that you will have a small margin for error the closer you get to goal.
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Chiming in real quick: Starvation Mode is real. But 95% of people on MFP do not actually understand what it is in reality or what effects it will take on you. Missing a meal a day will not cause starvation mode or people in 1st world countries are highly unlikely to ever experience it, see it, or feel it.
But that really shouldn't be the topic of discussion here, it should be helping the OP whom asked for assistance.
It is unlikely you are in a calorie deficit. What you may think is a deficit simply may not be. Logging by weight and logging honestly is VERY important.0 -
Chiming in real quick: Starvation Mode is real. But 95% of people on MFP do not actually understand what it is in reality or what effects it will take on you. Missing a meal a day will not cause starvation mode or people in 1st world countries are highly unlikely to ever experience it, see it, or feel it.
But that really shouldn't be the topic of discussion here, it should be helping the OP whom asked for assistance.
It is unlikely you are in a calorie deficit. What you may think is a deficit simply may not be. Logging by weight and logging honestly is VERY important.
Very well. Educate us, if you think you have the evidence. Evidence is all that matters here. You wouldn't find a more willing group outside an Atheist convention that could so easily be swayed by actual evidence. So put up.2 -
Seriously, it's science but it's not rocket science. Eating at a moderate deficit will not throw your body into starvation mode.
Eating at a large deficit for a long time will cause your body to start consuming vital tissues, hence you will literally be starving and energy for basic functions will start being slowed until they stop and you die. Because you starved to death. But leading up to that point, even when things begin to slow down, will in no way stop your body from using whatever it can for fuel until you're dead. That is "starvation mode."
Severe anorexics are in "starvation mode." Do you see extra stored fat on them?3 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Very well. Educate us, if you think you have the evidence. Evidence is all that matters here. You wouldn't find a more willing group outside an Atheist convention that could so easily be swayed by actual evidence. So put up.
You aggressive attitude is unappreciated.
Your body's energy output depends significantly on the activities within it.
On MFP, most people that believe they are in 'starvation mode' may be actually suffering from mild malnutrition. Your body will engage in many activities, but most of them require resources. For a time, the body can cannibalize itself for said resources. However, many are not easily and readily available. So, the activities the body normal does with them, will slow. This means less energy expenditure.
In 'starvation mode', there is a combination of malnutrition and lack of energy. So even with the resources, the energy required to perform an action is not readily available, so the process waits. Remember, most biological energy is chemical, not electrical, so it physically needs to move, unlike an electrical field which is established when connecting a circuit. Think of it this way, if your liver needed 300 calories a day for optimal performance, it could be ran at 250 calories a day instead for sub-par performance. However, this can and does lead to organ damage. Worth noting, most chronic anorexics die of organ failure.
This is also why thyroid problems (Hypo and Hyper) are medical issues that should be resolved.
But the idea that you'll store extra fat in 'starvation mode' or that you skipped lunch and thus are in 'starvation mode' etc. is mostly false.3 -
CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Chiming in real quick: Starvation Mode is real. But 95% of people on MFP do not actually understand what it is in reality or what effects it will take on you. Missing a meal a day will not cause starvation mode or people in 1st world countries are highly unlikely to ever experience it, see it, or feel it.
But that really shouldn't be the topic of discussion here, it should be helping the OP whom asked for assistance.
It is unlikely you are in a calorie deficit. What you may think is a deficit simply may not be. Logging by weight and logging honestly is VERY important.
Very well. Educate us, if you think you have the evidence. Evidence is all that matters here. You wouldn't find a more willing group outside an Atheist convention that could so easily be swayed by actual evidence. So put up.
I think the poster was referring to the fact that starvation mode is a real physiological response to an extremely low calorie intake, not that the OP was suffering from being in starvation mode.1 -
MichelleLei1 wrote: »I think the poster was referring to the fact that starvation mode is a real physiological response to an extremely low calorie intake, not that the OP was suffering from being in starvation mode.
Yes. It is only present in extreme... EXTREME... cases. Most Americans and Europeans will never even SEE it in someone else, let alone be in it themselves.
1 -
Wow, lots of unnecessary arguments in this thread, with almost everyone missing the obvious stuff!
OP, with your stats, you are already at a healthy weight, so your rate of any further loss will be really slow and your calories have to be on point. I peeked at your diary and it looks like you aren't logging. My suggestions:- Set your goal to one-half lb per week.
- If you don't have one, buy a digital food scale.
- Start logging everything, accurately and consistently, using the food scale as often as possible for ALL solids.
- Log your exercise and eat back half your calories.
- Do this for 6-8 weeks and see what happens.
If you aren't using a food scale, small miscalculations in portion size could be causing your problem. I am 5'4", and at 140 lbs, I thought I was eating @ 1500 cals and wasn't losing. I got a food scale and soon realized I was actually eating more like 1800 cals. I started eating 1500 cals for real, increased my steps, and was able to lose 15 lbs, but it was S-L-O-W.
Sorry your thread was hijacked unnecessarily. Starvation mode is not something the average dieter needs to worry about, whether it technically exists or not. Best of luck!
ETA: As others have suggested, search the forum for "recomp", this might be a better plan for you. But as another 5'4" woman, I am considering going down to 120 now that I've lived at 125ish for a few months, so I understand wanting to lose a little more!
This is spot on. I'm 5ft, 6in and currently at 128lbs. I've been in maintenance for several years now but am currently working on losing a few more 'vanity' pounds. Even setting my weekly loss to .5lbs a week I have very little wiggle room for calories. Using a food scale set in grams is crucial, as well as accurately logging every calorie I eat /drink. When you get into the lower weight end you really need to tighten things up.0 -
Damn, you're right @CoffeeNCardio dayum!CoffeeNCardio wrote: »cerise_noir wrote: »OP, why the variation in calories? Do you have a fitbit linked?
Also, are you using a food scale? With so little to lose, your deficit would be very small, so you'd have to be incredibly accurate.. even with 100 cals extra a day, you could be wiping out your deficit, so eating more would not the solution. Weight gain is caused by eating more than you need to maintain.
No. The way you described it, no. If it was the case, how do people starve to death? Please provide sources to prove the starvation mode theory..biocowgirl wrote: »Starvation mode is not a myth, if you are severely restricting your calories you can cause your body to store more fat and build less muscle, even when working out. Check out his nifty calculator to see how much you should be eating (complete with breakdown of your macros): https://legionathletics.com/how-many-calories-should-i-eat/
And this great, although lengthy article about building muscle while losing fat : http://www.muscleforlife.com/build-muscle-lose-fat/
Ewww. Don't call Starvation Mode a theory. Gravity is a theory. Evolution is a theory. Germ Theory is a theory. Starvation mode is a joke at best and outright lies at worst.
Starvation mode crapwoo.
There.
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OP--127lbs for being 5 foot four and 33 years old is fantastic. Why do you think you need to lose more weight? You may be just right where you are.0
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@jvs125 The below is the best short science based article that I have read on the subject. In short it is a term that means different things to different people in different times. A read from end to end was helpful to me.
https://authoritynutrition.com/starvation-mode/
What Does “Starvation Mode” Imply?
"What people generally refer to as “starvation mode” (and sometimes “metabolic damage”) is the body’s natural response to long-term calorie restriction.
It involves the body responding to reduced calorie intake by reducing calorie expenditure in an attempt to maintain energy balance and prevent starvation.
This is a natural physiological response, and isn’t really controversial. It is well accepted by scientists, and the technical term for it is “adaptive thermogenesis” (2)"
Results of (2):
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
"The increasing prevalence of obesity and its co-morbidities reflects the interaction of genes that favor the storage of excess calories as fat with an environment that provides ad libitum availability of calorically dense foods and encourages an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. While weight reduction is difficult in and of itself, anyone who has every lost weight will confirm that it is much harder to keep the weight off once it has been lost. The over 80% recidivism rate to pre-weight loss levels of body fatness after otherwise successful weight loss is due to the coordinate actions of metabolic, behavioral, neuroendocrine, and autonomic responses designed to maintain body energy stores (fat) at a CNS- defined “ideal”. This “adaptive thermogenesis” creates the ideal situation for weight regain and is operant in both lean and obese individuals attempting to sustain reduced body weights. Much of this opposition to sustained weight loss is mediated by the adipocyte-derived hormone “leptin”. The multiplicity of systems regulating energy stores and opposing the maintenance of a reduced body weight illustrate that body energy stores in general and obesity in particular are actively “defended” by interlocking bioenergetic and neurobiological physiologies. Important inferences can be drawn for therapeutic strategies by recognizing obesity as a disease in which the human body actively opposes the “cure” over long periods of time beyond the initial resolution of symptomatology......."1 -
GaleHawkins wrote: »@jvs125 The below is the best short science based article that I have read on the subject. In short it is a term that means different things to different people in different times. A read from end to end was helpful to me.
https://authoritynutrition.com/starvation-mode/
What Does “Starvation Mode” Imply?
"What people generally refer to as “starvation mode” (and sometimes “metabolic damage”) is the body’s natural response to long-term calorie restriction.
It involves the body responding to reduced calorie intake by reducing calorie expenditure in an attempt to maintain energy balance and prevent starvation.
This is a natural physiological response, and isn’t really controversial. It is well accepted by scientists, and the technical term for it is “adaptive thermogenesis” (2)"
Results of (2):
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3673773/
"The increasing prevalence of obesity and its co-morbidities reflects the interaction of genes that favor the storage of excess calories as fat with an environment that provides ad libitum availability of calorically dense foods and encourages an increasingly sedentary lifestyle. While weight reduction is difficult in and of itself, anyone who has every lost weight will confirm that it is much harder to keep the weight off once it has been lost. The over 80% recidivism rate to pre-weight loss levels of body fatness after otherwise successful weight loss is due to the coordinate actions of metabolic, behavioral, neuroendocrine, and autonomic responses designed to maintain body energy stores (fat) at a CNS- defined “ideal”. This “adaptive thermogenesis” creates the ideal situation for weight regain and is operant in both lean and obese individuals attempting to sustain reduced body weights. Much of this opposition to sustained weight loss is mediated by the adipocyte-derived hormone “leptin”. The multiplicity of systems regulating energy stores and opposing the maintenance of a reduced body weight illustrate that body energy stores in general and obesity in particular are actively “defended” by interlocking bioenergetic and neurobiological physiologies. Important inferences can be drawn for therapeutic strategies by recognizing obesity as a disease in which the human body actively opposes the “cure” over long periods of time beyond the initial resolution of symptomatology......."
I don't think you seem to understand the difference between starvation and dieting. You're correct to state that starvation mode or adaptive thermogenesis is a real physiological response accepted by scientists. When the body doesn't have adequate nutrition, it does everything it can to keep the body alive, which includes storing fat. But unless you suffer from a severe eating disorder or are from a third world country with no access to food, you are not going to be suffering from starvation mode. Starvation mode occurs when someone is starving, not dieting. A deficit of say 500 calories is no where near starvation, even if it is sustained for a long periods of time.
As someone who has suffered from an eating disorder, I can tell you that storing fat is the least of your worries when you truly enter starvation mode. I used to eat roughly 300 calories a day with excessive amounts of exercise, that is when your body enters starvation mode. Do you want to know what really happens? fatigue, dizziness, fainting, extreme coldness, hair loss, amenorrhea, easy bruising, low blood pressure, fast heart rate, low blood count, constipation, insomnia, stomach pains, and eventually organ failure. I'm lucky to have never suffered from the last one, but I've had friends who have lost organs and even the ability to have children due to actual starvation. Many people on myfitnesspal are lucky to never know the true effects of starvation, so please stop perpetuating this crap that starvation mode is something that someone eating at a moderate deficit should be worried about. If you want to eat more calories, fine eat more calories, but don't use false and misinterpreted science to validate your life choices.12 -
Removed at kimny72 request.
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Could you please stop hijacking this thread? It seems you managed to scare away the OP who needed help by arguing about something that doesn't even apply to her. Start a Debate thread if you want.9
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CoffeeNCardio wrote: »Very well. Educate us, if you think you have the evidence. Evidence is all that matters here. You wouldn't find a more willing group outside an Atheist convention that could so easily be swayed by actual evidence. So put up.
You aggressive attitude is unappreciated.
Your body's energy output depends significantly on the activities within it.
On MFP, most people that believe they are in 'starvation mode' may be actually suffering from mild malnutrition. Your body will engage in many activities, but most of them require resources. For a time, the body can cannibalize itself for said resources. However, many are not easily and readily available. So, the activities the body normal does with them, will slow. This means less energy expenditure.
In 'starvation mode', there is a combination of malnutrition and lack of energy. So even with the resources, the energy required to perform an action is not readily available, so the process waits. Remember, most biological energy is chemical, not electrical, so it physically needs to move, unlike an electrical field which is established when connecting a circuit. Think of it this way, if your liver needed 300 calories a day for optimal performance, it could be ran at 250 calories a day instead for sub-par performance. However, this can and does lead to organ damage. Worth noting, most chronic anorexics die of organ failure.
This is also why thyroid problems (Hypo and Hyper) are medical issues that should be resolved.
But the idea that you'll store extra fat in 'starvation mode' or that you skipped lunch and thus are in 'starvation mode' etc. is mostly false.
My aggressive attitude is only aggressive in your mistaken interpretation of it. As was MY mistaken interpretation of what you meant by starvation mode. Nothing you said is inaccurate. I wholly agree. But so often here the woo is loud and obnoxious, and indecipherable from your actual meaning when you use identical terms (starvation mode), so I assumed you meant the commonly referred to starvation mode myth (the one that says you must eat more than 1400 calories a day or your body will "hold onto fat", or "you're not losing weight because you're not eating enough" or similar absurd notions). I am glad that you didn't mean that and further elated that your explanation of what it ACTUALLY is is now available for anyone to read who may be confused by the peddlers of woo. Thank you for your clear, concise, and well reasoned explanation:)2 -
Ok, so I keep reading starvation mode is a myth.
But, after being on a calorie deficit for months and working out 6 days per week, weight training and cardio, My weight loss has completely stalled. For months now, and I don't care much about scale, but inches aren't coming down.
I was thinking maybe I should increase my calorie intake to see if it helps the fat loss process but if starvation mode is a myth, then that would not help... So what would help?
I'm 33, female, 5'4", 127 pounds and currently eat between 1200-1500 cals daily..
You are on right track just do a slight change,
1. Keep doing whatever exercise+diet you were doing jus add some calories(it should be protein only) so all you need to do add 30 to 50 gram of protein(from natural sources... No supplement) ad to your diet, i hope you'll be seeing results starting from within a week time. 0 -
Of course starvation mode is a myth otherwise where do anorexics come from? Why are there people in the world right now dying of hunger??? If you are not losing weight you are consuming more calories than you think0
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skjaimini9 wrote: »Ok, so I keep reading starvation mode is a myth.
But, after being on a calorie deficit for months and working out 6 days per week, weight training and cardio, My weight loss has completely stalled. For months now, and I don't care much about scale, but inches aren't coming down.
I was thinking maybe I should increase my calorie intake to see if it helps the fat loss process but if starvation mode is a myth, then that would not help... So what would help?
I'm 33, female, 5'4", 127 pounds and currently eat between 1200-1500 cals daily..
You are on right track just do a slight change,
1. Keep doing whatever exercise+diet you were doing jus add some calories(it should be protein only) so all you need to do add 30 to 50 gram of protein(from natural sources... No supplement) ad to your diet, i hope you'll be seeing results starting from within a week time.
This makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. How would adding calories help? What is the extra protein going to do for weight loss?0 -
My elderly father with cognitive impairment also believes anything he reads that says it was authored by a medical professional and that proposes some sort of secret ingredient supplement that isgoing to cure whatever ails him.1
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Could you please stop hijacking this thread? It seems you managed to scare away the OP who needed help by arguing about something that doesn't even apply to her. Start a Debate thread if you want.
What exactly is your problem with discussing the title of the post and the content of the OP's first post? And why do you make assumptions about why she hasn't posted back? You've posted a supposedly helpful response, if she's read it, ain't that /thread?2 -
And I was just curious how long exactly the OP has totally stalled as I didn't see this mentioned anywhere? We could be talking two weeks here, for all we know. Sometimes dieters expect fully linear weight loss and freak out when they haven't lost in what is ultimately a very short amount of time2
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Stalls happen for basically a couple of reasons:
logging or accuracy isn't as accurate
the body has adapted to activity (physical) and has "learned" how to allot calories needed to support it. Or in other words homeostasis.
Changing physical activity will help along with changing with a slightly higher intake for a short time.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
Could you please stop hijacking this thread? It seems you managed to scare away the OP who needed help by arguing about something that doesn't even apply to her. Start a Debate thread if you want.
What exactly is your problem with discussing the title of the post and the content of the OP's first post? And why do you make assumptions about why she hasn't posted back? You've posted a supposedly helpful response, if she's read it, ain't that /thread?
The thread devolved into a scientific argument that was far beyond anything the OP asked for, and I was under the impression that the scientific back and forth was now supposed to be contained in the Debates thread for exactly that reason. So that posters who were looking for practical advise didn't lose their thread to angry arguments over cited sources. Yes, I made an assumption about why she didn't return, sorry if that was out of line.0 -
Ok, so I keep reading starvation mode is a myth.
But, after being on a calorie deficit for months and working out 6 days per week, weight training and cardio, My weight loss has completely stalled. For months now, and I don't care much about scale, but inches aren't coming down.
I was thinking maybe I should increase my calorie intake to see if it helps the fat loss process but if starvation mode is a myth, then that would not help... So what would help?
I'm 33, female, 5'4", 127 pounds and currently eat between 1200-1500 cals daily..
Do you need to lose more weight? You're already in the range already - see the healthy BMI recommendation- you're right in the middle which is a sweet spot. And you're already exercising and getting fit. What size dress/pants do you wear?
Ideal Weight Calculator
Result
Based on the Robinson formula (1983), your ideal weight is 123.0 lbs
Based on the Miller formula (1983), your ideal weight is 129.1 lbs
Based on the Devine formula (1974), your ideal weight is 120.6 lbs
Based on the Hamwi formula (1964), your ideal weight is 119.7 lbs
Based on the healthy BMI recommendation, your recommended weight is 107.8 lbs - 145.6 lbs1
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