I shouldn't have read that book!
beth0277
Posts: 217 Member
I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
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I often eat meat just at dinner time. Or small amounts of meat at lunch and dinner. Like 150 calories worth of meat at a time. I surround the meat with veggies. I'm really into sweet potatoes right now (lots of fiber). I cut it up and it takes up almost
The whole
Plate and then I add in a small amount of meat.
Do you count eggs as meat? If not, that's often a good lunch idea. Beans too.0 -
I often eat meat just at dinner time. Or small amounts of meat at lunch and dinner. Like 150 calories worth of meat at a time. I surround the meat with veggies. I'm really into sweet potatoes right now (lots of fiber). I cut it up and it takes up almost
The whole
Plate and then I add in a small amount of meat.
Do you count eggs as meat? If not, that's often a good lunch idea. Beans too.
I'm not a huge egg eater but the book details all animal products (eggs, dairy, meat).0 -
What book?0
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Read PEER REVIEWED CLINICAL STUDIES and not books that are biased views ONLY. A true way to measure truth is to take both sides of any argument and objectively look at the evidence.
While I believe meat is CORRELATED with many diseases, disease attained by the person many times is genetic or environmental.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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tlflag1620 wrote: »What book?
This particular book was called "How Not to Die" which I was hoping would teach me some foods to ADD to help stave off disease, which it did, but it also really detailed the dangers of animal products.0 -
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"How Not to Die".....yeah, that sounds totally legit, and not like a bunch of biased, scare-tactic nonsense designed to get you to buy the book.14
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Any one can write a book full of scare tactics, check the sources. Foods high in saturated fat can contribute to disease, yes, but it is only one of many factors. If you also eat plenty of good fats, think nuts and fish, it helps balance that out. Some of the longest living cultures in the world (Japanese, Scandanavian, Mediterranean) eat animal products, just in moderation and with a lot of fish too.
Activity level and genetics are also extremely important factors.
I am immediately skeptical of any book that says any food group is evil.2 -
Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).2
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tlflag1620 wrote: »What book?
This particular book was called "How Not to Die" which I was hoping would teach me some foods to ADD to help stave off disease, which it did, but it also really detailed the dangers of animal products.
Lol. I hope the book told you that you are going to die anyway. Sorry, not trying to be snarky - I agree with ninerbuff - read peer reviewed articles in respected medical journals if you want to educate yourself. Books and documentaries are slanted towards the bias of the author/creators. Eating meat is not unhealthy, in and of itself. And the only "studies" I've seen connecting meat to poor health outcomes were observational or epidemiological in nature. Those kinds of studies are good starting points for a hypothesis, but they aren't real science. Look for RCTs, especially following large groups over long periods of time.
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Everything causes cancer.
I favour Middle Eastern food- great warning spices, focuses on vegetables and grains such as rice and bulgur wheat. Meat factors in a limited way but often the main event is the salad or what we might traditionally have as the side. I have Mona Hamedeh's a Lebanese Feast cookbook, which is meat-free, and the flavours are great (the photos don't do the food justice).
If you want to go down the Mediterranean route it's all about freshness and vegetables. I still eat meat, but it's high quality and generally not 'processed' - sausages and cured meats are said to be more of the bad guys according to research.2 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »What book?
This particular book was called "How Not to Die" which I was hoping would teach me some foods to ADD to help stave off disease, which it did, but it also really detailed the dangers of animal products.
According to one of the reviews the author is hating on olive oil. Olive oil?!?
http://www.amazon.com/How-Not-Die-Discover-Scientifically-ebook/product-reviews/B00Y7USB14/ref=undefined_1?ie=UTF8&filterByStar=one_star&showViewpoints=0&pageNumber=12 -
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I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
What type of meat products? Did the studies differentiate between bologna and chicken breast or did the author just claim all meat is awful? In these studies, were the people who had adverse health outcomes eating green leafy vegetables? For some studies, it's not clear if it's meat that is the problem or the absence of veggies.
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One thing to keep in mind anytime you read something that has lots of statistics to back up their "facts" . Statistics lie. First thing my prof told me in statistics class in college was that. Depending on what you want to say, you can make the numbers back you up.
Meat doesn't kill people or cause cancer. At least not anymore than anything else you want to eat.1 -
QuietBloom wrote: »Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).
Yes, we are omnivores, which in and of itself does not mean we have to eat animals to get all of our nutrients. It means that we are a highly adaptable species and can live, and thrive, on a variety of diets. B12 is absorbed by animals through the plants and soil they eat, which in turn is absorbed by humans who eat those animals. There are some propositions that the reason veg*ns have a difficult time getting adequate B12 from plant food sources is because our current soils are so depleted through mismanagement (such as monoculture crop cultivation) that there isn't enough for us to absorb just by eating plant foods. I haven't read the science on that in quite a long time, so I'm not sure if there's anything new about that. And yes, a vegan or strict vegetarian should supplement B12, or eat fortified foods, to make sure they don't ever get to a point where they are deficient as it is very important not to be. But, with access to everything we in industrialized nations have, there is no need to eat animals if one does not want to.
Whether you choose to eat animals or not, it would be great if people wouldn't use scare tactics on either side.2 -
When someone is selling you something (like a book for instance) and making grandiose claims (like eat this and you won't die) it pays to investigate who they are and what their agenda actually is. I'll just leave this here about the author:
http://www.humanewatch.org/hsus_doc_exposed_as_schlock/1 -
Because of "Forks over Knives" and similar information and videos, (besides having a sister that's vegan and another that's vegetarian and both are completely healthy and thin) I was told meat is "BAD" and I should try to get healthy by eating their way.
I tried it for 6 months and I was GAINING weight. When you don't eat meat you must eat carbs. Well I'm obese and diabetic and it's hard for me to exercise ~ So, all the carbs I was eating was turning into sugar and then stored as fat. It was terrible.
Then I saw a nutritionist for obese people and was told to eat a protein based diet with simple carbs like vegetables and limit sugar and processed foods. I have begun to lose weight again. I'm thankful I took off the weight I gained previously. I also learned that animal fat, which those books and videos claim is making us fatter and unhealthy, is NOT TRUE.
Information, including Expert Advice from doctors and dieticians, is always conflicting! You have to eat what is good for your own body. I wish you much success!0 -
I think following a loose Mediterranean diet is a great idea, with your protein and fats from eggs, cheese, olive oil, and a little fish. Lots of fruits and vegetables. Rice stuffed in grape leaves. One day a week can be steak day. Sounds lovely.
Consider how long people have been surviving and thriving on this planet without following any diet plan at all.2 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »When someone is selling you something (like a book for instance) and making grandiose claims (like eat this and you won't die) it pays to investigate who they are and what their agenda actually is. I'll just leave this here about the author:
http://www.humanewatch.org/hsus_doc_exposed_as_schlock/
From there we get some point by point critiques of the author's claims: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/death-as-a-foodborne-illness-curable-by-veganism/2 -
QuietBloom wrote: »Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).
Yes, we are omnivores, which in and of itself does not mean we have to eat animals to get all of our nutrients. It means that we are a highly adaptable species and can live, and thrive, on a variety of diets. B12 is absorbed by animals through the plants and soil they eat, which in turn is absorbed by humans who eat those animals. There are some propositions that the reason veg*ns have a difficult time getting adequate B12 from plant food sources is because our current soils are so depleted through mismanagement (such as monoculture crop cultivation) that there isn't enough for us to absorb just by eating plant foods. I haven't read the science on that in quite a long time, so I'm not sure if there's anything new about that. And yes, a vegan or strict vegetarian should supplement B12, or eat fortified foods, to make sure they don't ever get to a point where they are deficient as it is very important not to be. But, with access to everything we in industrialized nations have, there is no need to eat animals if one does not want to.
Whether you choose to eat animals or not, it would be great if people wouldn't use scare tactics on either side.
I am not using scare tactics, I am simply stating facts. The B12 that is in the soil is not a form that is absorbable for humans - the depleted soil theory does not have merit. The most bioavailable (for humans) supplemental B12 is produced using cow gut bacteria grown using fetal bovine serum as part of the media.0 -
You don't gain weight eating at maintenance though or in a calorie deficit. You gain weight by eating a surplus. That's how physiology works.SugarySweetheart wrote: »Because of "Forks over Knives" and similar information and videos, (besides having a sister that's vegan and another that's vegetarian and both are completely healthy and thin) I was told meat is "BAD" and I should try to get healthy by eating their way.
I tried it for 6 months and I was GAINING weight. When you don't eat meat you must eat carbs. Well I'm obese and diabetic and it's hard for me to exercise ~ So, all the carbs I was eating was turning into sugar and then stored as fat. It was terrible.
In other words you ate LESS calories which would account for the weight loss.Then I saw a nutritionist for obese people and was told to eat a protein based diet with simple carbs like vegetables and limit sugar and processed foods. I have begun to lose weight again. I'm thankful I took off the weight I gained previously. I also learned that animal fat, which those books and videos claim is making us fatter and unhealthy, is NOT TRUE.
Information, including Expert Advice from doctors and dieticians, is always conflicting! You have to eat what is good for your own body. I wish you much success!
How one goes about how to lose weight is a preference, but it STILL comes down to CICO.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Like others have said, the book and documentary you're citing are not peer-reviewed, scientifically dependent studies. They're both in the business of making money, they're both subject unchecked author-bias, they lack any sort of formal critiquing system for evaluating their claims, and as such they're completely unreliable as a source of dietary guidance.
The mediterranean diet gets a lot of attention because of the perceived longevity of it's adherents, but mediterranean people actually don't have statistically healthier or longer lives than many other populations. Diet varies widely by culture, geography, and climate. Inuit people traditionally lived primarily on meat due to the agricultural restrictions of such a cold climate. Buddhists and many Hindus are vegetarian and/or vegan. Coastal people tend to eat more fish. And all these different places have so many other factors aside from diet that affect their health and longevity, that attributing it solely to meat consumption is faulty thinking.
That being said, balance is important. Make sure your diet also has lots of vegetables and fruits -- they are rich in nutrients that meat lacks. (And vice versa). As long as you are getting a variety of real foods and eating the right amount of calories, eating meat will not put you in an early grave. Humans are omnivores, we require certain amino chains in our diet to live, and those amino chains are most readily found in meat -- we are meant to eat meat.3 -
QuietBloom wrote: »QuietBloom wrote: »Analysis paralisis is hard. But don't let someone else's opinion (which is all that book is) sway you too much. Doctors do recommend a plant based diet, but they also recommend lean proteins like fish and chicken with limited amounts of red meat. Humans are omnivores, which means we need to eat some animal based products to get all of the nutrients we need. Vitamin B12 is something that is ONLY available from animal products (for instance).
Yes, we are omnivores, which in and of itself does not mean we have to eat animals to get all of our nutrients. It means that we are a highly adaptable species and can live, and thrive, on a variety of diets. B12 is absorbed by animals through the plants and soil they eat, which in turn is absorbed by humans who eat those animals. There are some propositions that the reason veg*ns have a difficult time getting adequate B12 from plant food sources is because our current soils are so depleted through mismanagement (such as monoculture crop cultivation) that there isn't enough for us to absorb just by eating plant foods. I haven't read the science on that in quite a long time, so I'm not sure if there's anything new about that. And yes, a vegan or strict vegetarian should supplement B12, or eat fortified foods, to make sure they don't ever get to a point where they are deficient as it is very important not to be. But, with access to everything we in industrialized nations have, there is no need to eat animals if one does not want to.
Whether you choose to eat animals or not, it would be great if people wouldn't use scare tactics on either side.
I am not using scare tactics, I am simply stating facts. The B12 that is in the soil is not a form that is absorbable for humans - the depleted soil theory does not have merit. The most bioavailable (for humans) supplemental B12 is produced using cow gut bacteria grown using fetal bovine serum as part of the media.
Like I said, I haven't looked at the science for the soil proposition in a long time, so I'm not going to argue with you as to whether it is correct or not, as I cannot do so at this time and did not state it as fact. And, as I said, neither side should use scare tactics - and that includes the author of the book, obvioualy.
I think OP is at a place where she should not be immobilized, but continue to eat a healthful diet and spend her time researching more, and change her diet at that point if she so chooses. But regardless of whether the soil argument does or does not have merit, the fact remains that in this day and age, we can choose to not eat animals and be very healthy our whole lives. I don't think she's going to find a good and fully informed answer after listening to a bunch of posters. She should do her own research, as other posters have mentioned.0 -
THIS sums it up quite nicely and I fully agree.thewildair wrote: »Like others have said, the book and documentary you're citing are not peer-reviewed, scientifically dependent studies. They're both in the business of making money, they're both subject unchecked author-bias, they lack any sort of formal critiquing system for evaluating their claims, and as such they're completely unreliable as a source of dietary guidance.
The mediterranean diet gets a lot of attention because of the perceived longevity of it's adherents, but mediterranean people actually don't have statistically healthier or longer lives than many other populations. Diet varies widely by culture, geography, and climate. Inuit people traditionally lived primarily on meat due to the agricultural restrictions of such a cold climate. Buddhists and many Hindus are vegetarian and/or vegan. Coastal people tend to eat more fish. And all these different places have so many other factors aside from diet that affect their health and longevity, that attributing it solely to meat consumption is faulty thinking.
That being said, balance is important. Make sure your diet also has lots of vegetables and fruits -- they are rich in nutrients that meat lacks. (And vice versa). As long as you are getting a variety of real foods and eating the right amount of calories, eating meat will not put you in an early grave. Humans are omnivores, we require certain amino chains in our diet to live, and those amino chains are most readily found in meat -- we are meant to eat meat.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
1 -
I have "analysis paralysis". I have read too much and now I'm just totally confused. I know that to lose weight you need to burn more calories than you eat. Simple (but hard). But I read a book (backed by a lot of medical research) that talked about how badly animal products contribute to diseases such as heart disease, cancer, dementia, etc., even when individuals are at a healthy weight. There are a lot of similar books/documentaries, such as "Forks over Knives" that talk about the benefits of eating a plant based diet. Now, the problem. I like meat. I don't want to give it up. I can cut back, sure, but I feel like now that I "know" this stuff, I shouldn't do it. I've been reading about the Mediterranean diet and how they limit meats and sweets and have been considered following it, loosely, but it has me so stressed out. I have a 6 year old and I want him to be healthy but radically changing his diet will not happen. Moreover, if I cut meat from all but maybe dinner each day, I don't know a lot of non-meat options. I like some veggies but not a ton. So, MFP'ers, how do you deal with learning this type of info? I wish I never read that book, to be honest. It was so on point with the studies showing how much diseases are related to meat products that it has me overwhelmed.
I don't spend my time reading or watching stuff like that.
I think a healthy diet plan can be very simple- eat enough protein, eat several servings of vegetables and fruits a day, whole grains are good choices, eat some good fats, eat the number of calories appropriate for your age, height, weight, and activity level. Beyond diet- get some regular exercise and get enough sleep.
My family eats meat but also meatless meals often because of cost. Beans and lentils are cheap so we have learned to like eating them.0 -
tlflag1620 wrote: »What book?
This particular book was called "How Not to Die" which I was hoping would teach me some foods to ADD to help stave off disease, which it did, but it also really detailed the dangers of animal products.
In spite of this book, the mortality rate for the human race remains steady at 100%.10 -
My non smoking, non drinking, thin, healthy vegan friend still died from cancer.....cancer doesn't give a *kitten* if you are vegan or live off junk food.....death and taxes, the two certainties in life8
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The people who wrote this book are a LOUD and obnoxious minority whose good intentions (the well being of our less evolved fellow earthlings) have gone straight to hell because rather than appeal to people's sense of justice and compassion they have chosen rather to make up lies about animal products and environmentally unfriendly products in order to scare-tactic people into their ideology.
Abusing and being in any way to cruel to animals is clearly a sh*tty thing to do. Screwing up the only planet known to be capable of supporting human life is suicidal at best (when you do it) and criminal homicide at worst(when corporations do it). But that's got nothing to do with the quality of the products we acquire by engaging in these bad behaviors. Be a vegetarian/vegan/environmentalist because you feel a drive toward goodness and morality. Not because of the lies of a few misguided lunatics who understand animal drives better than human ones (to motivate by fear rather than by compassion).5 -
1. Some meat is a lot healthier than other types - crappy processed food is going to be bad for you whether it's meat or not! So if you eat meat choose products that are better for you, the animals, and the planet. This usually costs more, so it might force you to consider eating less meat (this is how I started down the road to vegetarianism).
2. I am a vegetarian, but it's not an all-or-nothing decision. Many people are meat reducers (or/and dairy reducers) which gives you the flexibility to experiment.
3. Purely on personal health grounds, you don't need to be a veggie. But you probably should expand the range of veg you cook and enjoy - whether or not you continue to eat meat. It's good for kids to see their parents enjoying a wide range of foods, including veg - and of, course, it's good for you too.
4. As coffeeNcardio says, there are many other reasons people choose to be veggie besides personal health - ethics, environment, and cost are all contributing factors to my family's decision. Eating meat will not kill you, but on balance, to answer your question, the way I deal with learning difficult information (not health issues, in my case, but the environmental impact of eating meat and dairy) is to change my behaviour.
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