Gaining it back; NYT article
Nausicca55
Posts: 56 Member
I'm a newspaper carrier and today while I was bagging my route I noticed an article on the front page of the New York Times about the contestants of The Biggest Loser. I was running late so I didn't have time to read the article in full but I did scan it. Apparently a good many of the contestants on that show regain all the weight they lost and put more on. The article went on to say something about how metabolism stays low after weight loss so the body fights to put the weight back on. Something to that effect.
Now I also read another article that a contestant from the show published that outlined the ridiculous methods the show makes the contestants go through to lose so much weight so fast. Then when they are off the show and stop living on a bowl of grass a day and 21 hours of exercise, they regain the weight.
I was going to post a link to the article from the New York Times here but I'm not going to buy an online subscription just for an article that I didn't agree with. When I skimmed it, the first thought that went into my head was, "Well, if this is true, if my body's going to fight to pack on the weight, it's a losing battle and I shouldn't bother." This is how my mind work. Yes, it needs a bullet badly.
Then while throwing the route I remembered the other article and thought, well, if you lose the weight in such a fast, unhealthy way, of course you're going to regain it. No one is taught lifestyle changes on The Biggest Loser. No one continues eating a bowl of grass and exercising 21 hours a day when they go back to their normal lives. So the article is horsepucky.
I'd like to hear what others think about this.
Now I also read another article that a contestant from the show published that outlined the ridiculous methods the show makes the contestants go through to lose so much weight so fast. Then when they are off the show and stop living on a bowl of grass a day and 21 hours of exercise, they regain the weight.
I was going to post a link to the article from the New York Times here but I'm not going to buy an online subscription just for an article that I didn't agree with. When I skimmed it, the first thought that went into my head was, "Well, if this is true, if my body's going to fight to pack on the weight, it's a losing battle and I shouldn't bother." This is how my mind work. Yes, it needs a bullet badly.
Then while throwing the route I remembered the other article and thought, well, if you lose the weight in such a fast, unhealthy way, of course you're going to regain it. No one is taught lifestyle changes on The Biggest Loser. No one continues eating a bowl of grass and exercising 21 hours a day when they go back to their normal lives. So the article is horsepucky.
I'd like to hear what others think about this.
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Replies
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Nausicca55 wrote: »No one is taught lifestyle changes on The Biggest Loser. No one continues eating a bowl of grass and exercising 21 hours a day when they go back to their normal lives.
This.
From everything that I have read from people who have lost a lot of weight and kept it off, they changed their lifestyle. They continued to do in maintenance what they did to lose the weight. For example, portion control/counting calories, mostly nutritious food, daily activity for a healthier lifestyle. So I agree with you. If the contestants ate grass and exercised 21 hours per day to lose the weight and then continued to do that and still gained the weight back, then I would say it is hopeless and none of us should even try. But if after they lost the weight they were wished "Farewell" and sent home on their own to go back to their regular lives and weren't taught how to eat real food and use portion control and the other tools they need, they were extremely likely to regain the weight.
This is why plans like Nutrisystem and even Weight Watchers failed for me in the past... I could lose the weight by eating their prepackaged foods, but when I had to try to make choices and cook for myself the only skills or knowledge I had was how to do so to gain weight (which I was very good at!). Until I found MFP and learned how to control my weight through controlling/measuring my portions while making my own food choices, I didn't have a chance of succeeding. I've learned that I feel less hungry if I don't have 80% of my calories in carbs. I've learned I like to walk, preferably outside. I've learned that no more than a 500 calorie deficit works for me, otherwise I'm starving and miserable. I've found what works for me and after more than a year I've lost 68 pounds. I am finally getting rid of my medium/large/extra large/jumbo clothes (which I needed when I kept going back up in weight after losing). I'm buying clothes that fit my new, small size because I know I don't ever have to go back to fat. I have the knowledge and skills I need to be successful at maintenance for the first time in my life.
Another point the article makes is that these people's metabolisms are now slower than would be expected for someone else their size. Okay, but I am not that other person. I am me. A certain number of calories is more than what I burn and will cause me to gain weight, a certain amount is what I need to maintain, and a certain number is less than what I burn and will cause me to lose. So saying my body is "fighting to make me fat again so I should just give up" is horse pucky to me. If I burn 450 less calories per day than someone who has never been overweight and is my size now, so be it. I choose to eat 450 calories less per day than that person and stay this weight. Or I choose to eat the same amount as they do, but I gain. It is still up to me to determine what my body needs and then make choices accordingly.
The article also talks about insatiable hunger, starving themselves and then binging, not having support in place, and on and on, all of which are issues which need to be dealt with to lose and maintain a loss. If you are in this category, you may need to work harder and really learn what works for you. For example, some counseling may help. Doing research to learn about foods and paying attention to how they affect you may help. Choosing high-bulk, low calorie foods (like vegetables) can help with fullness. Eating a higher proportion of protein and dietary fat and less carbohydrates can help with hunger/satiety. I firmly believe that with sufficient desire, we can learn what works for us as individuals and we can succeed.16 -
There is another thread here on this arical this morning!0
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The Biggest Losers is not the best reference, to be honest, as they pretty much starve themselves to lose the weight and just don't learn anything.
I think that yes, your metabolism might be 10% slower or something when you've been obese and lost weight. It's not the end of the world.
But yeah, in my experience, the body fights back. I don't care how many people say it's not true... I'm way hungrier than I was when losing, and I'm eating the same diet, just with more calories. It's hard.6 -
The Biggest Losers is not the best reference, to be honest, as they pretty much starve themselves to lose the weight and just don't learn anything.
I think that yes, your metabolism might be 10% slower or something when you've been obese and lost weight. It's not the end of the world.
But yeah, in my experience, the body fights back. I don't care how many people say it's not true... I'm way hungrier than I was when losing, and I'm eating the same diet, just with more calories. It's hard.
Biggest loser may not be the best reference, but this is pretty true across the board no matter how the weight is lost. Over 80% of the people that lose weight gain it all back within 5 years. A lot of people gain even more weight back. The statistics are out there. Very few people keep the weight off for over 5 years. Franci27 is right. I have been on maintenance for over 2 years and it is way harder keeping it off than it was losing it for me.3 -
I would say that this study represents a really good baseline. As soon as I read it, I wandered what would happen if they used this group as the control and followed a matched group who lost weight much more slowly. How would their BMR and leptin (and other hormones) change?12
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I don't know, but reading this article just depressed me. Weight loss already seems like an uphill battle, and reading this makes it seem just hopeless.
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Nausicca55 wrote: »I don't know, but reading this article just depressed me. Weight loss already seems like an uphill battle, and reading this makes it seem just hopeless.
It is not hopeless, you just have to resign yourself to the fact that you can not eat more calories than you burn as a new way of eating. Simple, but never easy.
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snowflake930 wrote: »Nausicca55 wrote: »I don't know, but reading this article just depressed me. Weight loss already seems like an uphill battle, and reading this makes it seem just hopeless.
It is not hopeless, you just have to resign yourself to the fact that you can not eat more calories than you burn as a new way of eating. Simple, but never easy.
So the answer is to stay on My Fitness Pal all my life. Hmm. That's not so bad.
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gee losing 240lbs in 7 months *kitten* up your metabolism? Whodathunkit?5
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I know from my own experience and losing the same 60 pounds over and over again that this is true. I do not know how to stop the cycle .. If I am not actively losing weight, I am gaining it. I have always been a little bit heavier than my friends and family, it is just how my body is. I build muscle fast. I am really focusing "this time" on my eating habits. Trying just to make better choices and realize that it is what it is. I am 43 and I can't eat like my 16 year old son. Does it suck .. yep. But, this is a better fight than some of the others out there.1
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Jennifer10723 wrote: »I know from my own experience and losing the same 60 pounds over and over again that this is true. I do not know how to stop the cycle .. If I am not actively losing weight, I am gaining it. I have always been a little bit heavier than my friends and family, it is just how my body is. I build muscle fast. I am really focusing "this time" on my eating habits. Trying just to make better choices and realize that it is what it is. I am 43 and I can't eat like my 16 year old son. Does it suck .. yep. But, this is a better fight than some of the others out there.
If you can lose weight, and you can gain weight, you can maintain weight. Do the exact same as when you lose weight, but eat slightly more calories. If you gain a pound then you are eating too much, cut back 100calories and watch the scale again for 2-3 weeks. This is not your metabolism, this is simple calorie counting.10 -
Take a look at a book titled: "Thin for Life: 10 Keys to Success from People Who Have Lost Weight and Kept it Off." which looks at statistics from the National Weight Control Registry. It's a more realistic look on how accomplish your weight loss goal.
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I found the article very interesting, especially the information about the effect of weight loss on hormones like leptin that affect hunger. Unfortunately, the only definite conclusion I can draw from it is that rapid weight loss by means of extreme calorie restriction combined with extreme exercise is a bad idea. I already knew that. I sure would like to see a study of people like me, instead. I've taken over 3 years to lose 80 pounds - about 1/2 pound per week on average and the loss has been relatively steady. I've done it mainly through exercise (but nothing extreme) and I avoid being hungry. I determined pretty early on that if I eat an average of 2000 calories a day, I feel pretty comfortable. So, I exercise enough to be able to eat that much and still lose 1/2 pound a week. I have had to increase the intensity of my exercise in order to do that, however. Exercise that at one time would have me at the point of collapse, or even been beyond my ability, now barely raises my heart rate. Still, I suspect that my metabolic rate is lower than it should be. I don't know if that is because of my current program or because of past weight loss efforts (which didn't incorporate exercise).9
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Theoretically, using the calories in-calories out method that is the basis of MFP, at some point one does reach goal weight, and then RAISE their calories to maintenance. Since you're now smaller than you were before you lost weight, that maintenance number is lower than it was, but it's still higher than the number you were eating to LOSE weight.
What's disheartening about the article is it suggests your body permenantly resets itself after a weightloss to function on significantly less calories than it would have, at the same weight, had you never been overweight to start with. The evidence they present does seem fairly compelling - yes, the biggest loser group is an extreme and unhealthy diet that anyone with any experience trying to keep of weight could probably guess was going to gain it all back, but they also site other studies carried out on larger groups and less extreme weight losses.
What really bothers me there is the question, if we assume that, say, a 180 LB man who has lost 100 pounds burns 600 less calories per day than a similar man who has never weighed more than 180 LB...what is the body giving up on?
The always-thin man's body is doing something with those calories, presumably something necessary - making his immune system function, making his brain work, sending blood around his body, maintaining his bone density, you know, the usual and crucial. If we accept the article's premise that the body re-wires itself to covert those 600 calories immediately into fat in the post-weight-loss man instead of using them for the basic maintenance of his body...something must be suffering. Does the body essentially send anyone who has lost weight into a lifelong state of a kind of malnutrition by privileging our fat cells and depriving the rest of our body of energy unless we feed the fat cells first?9 -
I found the article very interesting, especially the information about the effect of weight loss on hormones like leptin that affect hunger. Unfortunately, the only definite conclusion I can draw from it is that rapid weight loss by means of extreme calorie restriction combined with extreme exercise is a bad idea. I already knew that. I sure would like to see a study of people like me, instead. I've taken over 3 years to lose 80 pounds - about 1/2 pound per week on average and the loss has been relatively steady. I've done it mainly through exercise (but nothing extreme) and I avoid being hungry. I determined pretty early on that if I eat an average of 2000 calories a day, I feel pretty comfortable. So, I exercise enough to be able to eat that much and still lose 1/2 pound a week. I have had to increase the intensity of my exercise in order to do that, however. Exercise that at one time would have me at the point of collapse, or even been beyond my ability, now barely raises my heart rate. Still, I suspect that my metabolic rate is lower than it should be. I don't know if that is because of my current program or because of past weight loss efforts (which didn't incorporate exercise).
I just wanted to say hooray for you. There will never be a reality television show about people who lose weight sensibly and slowly while implementing lifestyle changes, because it's just not as exciting to watch, and that's a shame, because you are a better role model.
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dopeysmelly wrote: »I would say that this study represents a really good baseline. As soon as I read it, I wandered what would happen if they used this group as the control and followed a matched group who lost weight much more slowly. How would their BMR and leptin (and other hormones) change?
This would be interesting to see, I wonder is there a study on this method? I always maintained that slow and steady is best....0 -
Wanted to add now that I've read the article that I've seen bits and pieces of the show but never watched a whole episode, and it sounds horrible! I can hardly believe it's legal, though I'm sure contestants sign some kind of iron-clad contract. This is what someone did post-show to weigh-in in order to win:
"Mr. Cahill set a goal of a 3,500-caloric deficit per day. The idea was to lose a pound a day. He quit his job as a land surveyor to do it.
"His routine went like this: Wake up at 5 a.m. and run on a treadmill for 45 minutes. Have breakfast — typically one egg and two egg whites, half a grapefruit and a piece of sprouted grain toast. Run on the treadmill for another 45 minutes. Rest for 40 minutes; bike ride nine miles to a gym. Work out for two and a half hours. Shower, ride home, eat lunch — typically a grilled skinless chicken breast, a cup of broccoli and 10 spears of asparagus. Rest for an hour. Drive to the gym for another round of exercise."
That made me unbelievably sad.6 -
P.S. Started reading the comment (articles on weight loss always get a lot of comments) and wondering how long it would take to find an MFP recommendation. Second comment I read is from someone who lost weight slowly and steadily on this site.0
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scrittrice wrote: »P.S. Started reading the comment (articles on weight loss always get a lot of comments) and wondering how long it would take to find an MFP recommendation. Second comment I read is from someone who lost weight slowly and steadily on this site.
I also lost all my weight (51-52 lbs) slowly and steadily right here on MFP. Counting calories is what works over the long haul. It took me over a year to reach maintenance and at a healthy weight range for a year + now. MFP works.4 -
Wow, when I read this article it also made me feel disempowered. I know I need to stop feeling like a victim of my body and take control back but it is hard. Last year over 7 months I lost 36 pounds and now in 6 months have gained back 6. I have been freelancing maintenance, trying to not go back to counting and measuring. Now I am afraid if I go back it won't work or that I will have to eat so much less for it to work I won't be able to keep it up.
On the bright side, I find support and inspiration out here and really appreciate the level head who said if my metabolism is permanently slower now, so be it. I just need to understand it and work with it. I have added an hour of exercise to my week which in theory will balance my lower metabolism. Thanks for being out here and sharing so freely!1 -
scrittrice wrote: »P.S. Started reading the comment (articles on weight loss always get a lot of comments) and wondering how long it would take to find an MFP recommendation. Second comment I read is from someone who lost weight slowly and steadily on this site.
I also lost all my weight (51-52 lbs) slowly and steadily right here on MFP. Counting calories is what works over the long haul. It took me over a year to reach maintenance and at a healthy weight range for a year + now. MFP works.
Same here. I was glad to see it mentioned in the comments, if not the article.3 -
scrittrice wrote: »Wanted to add now that I've read the article that I've seen bits and pieces of the show but never watched a whole episode, and it sounds horrible! I can hardly believe it's legal, though I'm sure contestants sign some kind of iron-clad contract. This is what someone did post-show to weigh-in in order to win:
"Mr. Cahill set a goal of a 3,500-caloric deficit per day. The idea was to lose a pound a day. He quit his job as a land surveyor to do it.
"His routine went like this: Wake up at 5 a.m. and run on a treadmill for 45 minutes. Have breakfast — typically one egg and two egg whites, half a grapefruit and a piece of sprouted grain toast. Run on the treadmill for another 45 minutes. Rest for 40 minutes; bike ride nine miles to a gym. Work out for two and a half hours. Shower, ride home, eat lunch — typically a grilled skinless chicken breast, a cup of broccoli and 10 spears of asparagus. Rest for an hour. Drive to the gym for another round of exercise."
That made me unbelievably sad.
The sad thing is people watch this and think "that is what I have to do to lose weight? Forget it!" but they think in the back of their minds "but at least I know I could lose this weight, I just don't want to go through that". So they stay fat.1 -
Weight gain and hunger after successfully losing weight is a complex issue involving "set point" and hormones like ghrelin, leptin, and insulin, among others. Lifestyle, exercise, macronutrient ratio, sleep efficiency, family history, medical conditions, medications, and stress also play a role. This list is not exhaustive.
I would really like to find my "sweet spot" (no pun intended) so I can achieve a reasonable weight for my height and maintain it. The cycle of losing and regaining weight has disheartened me and affected my self esteem. I find it one of the most difficult challenges in my life. I disagree with those that say weight loss/maintenance is simple or easy. It is not a simple matter of calories in/calories out; read current research studies if you are a doubter.
The Biggest Loser study is groundbreaking and important to all of us who struggle with maintaining a healthy weight. I hope everybody reads it. Here is the link to the study if you missed it on earlier posts:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.21538/epdf
I would also like to add that this study did NOT find a link between rapid weight loss and subsequent weight gain:
"Rapid weight loss, such as that experienced by “The Biggest Loser” participants, is sometimes claimed to increase the risk of weight regain, but recent studies have failed to support this idea since weight loss rate per se was not observed to affect long-term weight regain."
(quote from the Biggest Loser study)
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I lost 105lbs in 8 months kept it off for 2 years and only had problems when I changed jobs and then my mother died. I still exercise every day and eat healthy but was giving into binge eating and started gaining which, of course, made me depressed and eat more! Sometimes it doesn't matter what formula you use to lose weight, but needing support in dealing with the demens in your head! I've been using MFP for 4 yrs now, but this is the first time I've engaged in the community forum and it is paying off with my first 3lb weight loss in almost 2 yrs.3
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KarenHatch1 wrote: »Weight gain and hunger after successfully losing weight is a complex issue involving "set point" and hormones like ghrelin, leptin, and insulin, among others. Lifestyle, exercise, macronutrient ratio, sleep efficiency, family history, medical conditions, medications, and stress also play a role. This list is not exhaustive.
I would really like to find my "sweet spot" (no pun intended) so I can achieve a reasonable weight for my height and maintain it. The cycle of losing and regaining weight has disheartened me and affected my self esteem. I find it one of the most difficult challenges in my life. I disagree with those that say weight loss/maintenance is simple or easy. It is not a simple matter of calories in/calories out; read current research studies if you are a doubter.
The Biggest Loser study is groundbreaking and important to all of us who struggle with maintaining a healthy weight. I hope everybody reads it. Here is the link to the study if you missed it on earlier posts:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/oby.21538/epdf
If you lose weight sustainably while maintaining muscle your metabolism will only suffer small temporary effects. The sustainable way to diet is to incorporate refeeds, diet breaks, and sustainable goals. If you do this you will not suffer large permanent metabolic damage. Yes, there are ways your body fights back against fat loss, but they are all manageable with CICO and various exercise strategies. If you crash diet and lose tens of pounds of muscle then yes, you are screwing yourself and you are going to have to adopt a much more stringent diet to keep that weight off. For the average person doing a 1-2lb per week diet metabolic adaptation/slowdown is going to be minimal and hormonal levels should return to normal after about 2 weeks assuming you have taken diet breaks properly as you lose fat.4 -
A while back someone made a comment on "My Home" thread about eating real food: I think that's why most diets fail (Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem, etc.), and you can add “Biggest Loser to the list; you follow their eating/exercise plan, eat their "food," or count points, finish the diet/exercise plan and go back to your old eating habits (and not keeping up w/exercise) and put the weight back on (and then some!). Not only do these programs not teach you good eating/exercise habits ("I can eat all the cake I want as long as I don’t exceed my points for the day"), the foods some of the programs provide are pretty much loaded with sugar (1st ingredient in Slim Fast), excess salt and who knows what chemicals (that are more than likely not good for you). I tried to lose extra 7/8 lbs. by trying different diets (that I found in fitness mags ("clean eating") but had a hard time sticking to their allowable food list and regimen (eating five to six times a day, etc.). What worked was cutting back on sugar and cutting back on overly processed food; I use plain frozen veggies (most of the time) instead of canned, and add my own seasonings, etc. I also use regular half & half in my coffee instead of powdered coffee creamer. But I am realistic, I probably won’t completely eliminate all overly processed food, just try not to eat as much as I used to (I don’t want to give up pizza, etc.). Thing is eat foods you enjoy and like (why try to eat asparagus when you can’t stand it), include indulgences (cake, cookies, ice cream, chocolate, etc.); it needs to be a lifestyle you can maintain for the rest of your life; not a project or "diet" with an end date. Thing about those programs is the people lose the weight, go back to old eating habits, gain the weight back and go back on the program; it’s all about the $$$, not really helping folks lose the weight for good.
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"This is why plans like Nutrisystem and even Weight Watchers failed for me in the past... I could lose the weight by eating their prepackaged foods,
and:
A while back someone made a comment on "My Home" thread about eating real food: I think that's why most diets fail (Weight Watchers, Jenny Craig, Nutrisystem, etc.)"
I am a Weight Watcher Life Time Member and disagree with the above comments.
Firstly, Weight Watchers does not encourage prepackaged foods. They totally encourage real food. It is a wonderful program that is very similar to MFP. I follow both programs. I log my food on MFP because I like the online Diary better. They both follow the same principals. CICO. As a matter of fact, our group leader's topic was exactly that last Friday.
That is why I follow both. I like the online support and diary with MFP, but love the meetings with WW. They work hand in hand.
Both are a life style change, eating real food.
Just my two cents..,1 -
So my very basic question in response to the article is for those here who are successfully maintaining a largish weight loss after a reasonable calorie deficit to lose weight. .5-2 pounds per week. Total loss of, say 40 or more pounds.
Are your maintenance calories what you expect them to be? Can you eat the maintenance calories a standard TDEE calculator gives you for your age/weight/height/sex and maintain your weight?
Or, do you find that you need to eat substantially fewer calories than expected to maintain your weight loss?
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So my very basic question in response to the article is for those here who are successfully maintaining a largish weight loss after a reasonable calorie deficit to lose weight. .5-2 pounds per week. Total loss of, say 40 or more pounds.
Are your maintenance calories what you expect them to be? Can you eat the maintenance calories a standard TDEE calculator gives you for your age/weight/height/sex and maintain your weight?
Or, do you find that you need to eat substantially fewer calories than expected to maintain your weight loss?
I would like to know this too
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