4 Politically Correct Fitness Lies
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Excellent... My wife and I have a variation that goes something like this: "you wanna feel good about yourself? Go accomplish something." Now why doesn't my 14-year old daughter appreciate that statement as much as we do, I wonder...sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I particularly enjoyed the point about self esteem. "Need a self-esteem boost? Do something worthy of esteem. Do work."
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sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »One more thing I've noticed is that one argument often is "it's about their health. They're sucking up valuable resources in our healthcare system!" Few things that bug me about that.
1) You cannot make a snap judgement about a person's health based on looks. You don't know that the health issue caused the weight gain in the first place (although it's often true, you still don't KNOW for certain.) There are people battling cancer that look totally "normal," and you can't tell. Don't judge a book...
2) Why aren't people as passionate about smoking and alcohol. Those are both known to be detrimental to one's health, yet you don't have nearly the same amount of people preaching about the suck on the healthcare system, and the valuable police/ambulance resources they use up when they cause accidents and even death. I've never heard of someone dying because someone else is fat.
Yes, you can judge. But it's taboo in society for a reason. No one like unsolicited preaching, and it's generally not helpful. When the student is ready, the master will appear. Any time before then, you're just being mean.
Huh? This seems way out of left field . . . I'm definitely judging, especially the cancer reference and that student master thing. Not mean. Just judging. Intentional non sequitur?
Also, not sure where the healthcare, smoking, drinking thing came from. Not in the article. If someone is smoking around me though I'm judging. Feel better?
Then again, I'm probably drinking so I can tolerate others while I'm judging them. I could certainly use one now.
I do agree it's out of left field, but I wanted to make this point before anyone thought they could use the "healthcare system" argument, which inevitably always happens when discussing the PCness of weight shaming. Heh.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »One more thing I've noticed is that one argument often is "it's about their health. They're sucking up valuable resources in our healthcare system!" Few things that bug me about that.
1) You cannot make a snap judgement about a person's health based on looks. You don't know that the health issue caused the weight gain in the first place (although it's often true, you still don't KNOW for certain.) There are people battling cancer that look totally "normal," and you can't tell. Don't judge a book...
2) Why aren't people as passionate about smoking and alcohol. Those are both known to be detrimental to one's health, yet you don't have nearly the same amount of people preaching about the suck on the healthcare system, and the valuable police/ambulance resources they use up when they cause accidents and even death. I've never heard of someone dying because someone else is fat.
Yes, you can judge. But it's taboo in society for a reason. No one like unsolicited preaching, and it's generally not helpful. When the student is ready, the master will appear. Any time before then, you're just being mean.
Huh? This seems way out of left field . . . I'm definitely judging, especially the cancer reference and that student master thing. Not mean. Just judging. Intentional non sequitur?
Also, not sure where the healthcare, smoking, drinking thing came from. Not in the article. If someone is smoking around me though I'm judging. Feel better?
Then again, I'm probably drinking so I can tolerate others while I'm judging them. I could certainly use one now.
Ditto! I can relate to this.0 -
callmecarina wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »As expected, some people have thicker skin than others.
Of course. That's the point, and I think that's why all this "PC" stuff was started to begin with.
Not everyone is built that same way you are, and can take the criticisms in stride as you do. My previous posts were a long-winded explanation of that fact. The point is there's nothing wrong with people being more sensitive than you. Just because you don't experience feelings in the same way doesn't mean you can invalidate someone else's feelings. That's how Dani's article came off to me, which is unfortunate because she still did list some great advice.
Good for Dani for being the healthiest person she can be! But as is the case with diet and exercise, in life and in general "your mileage may vary."
I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.
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That's the truth for sure, but I can't turn it off. I care about people and have this funny little thing called empathy. It's the reason why despite the fact that I vehemently don't agree with you, I can still see past that and not attack or judge you personally. (And even though it's apparent that you have thick skin, I still hope you don't take any of this debating personally!sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.)
That's kinda why it boggles my mind that if other people would bother saying anything in the first place. If you can shrug off BS, cool. But why project BS onto others too? If it doesn't actually help others (which there seems to be research and experience that shows that by and large this is the case) then it's only self-serving because it doesn't actually help others, it's just another excuse to go on about yourself and what worked for you.
Why is it that the diet/fitness industry is so lucrative and doing so well if all that humans need is to stop whining, work hard, and shurg off BS. It's likely because this is next to impossible (mentally) for many people.2 -
I like the article. I like it mostly because it's honest. That whole loving the body you have.. you know, I never really bought that. But then I never really spent much time thinking about my body in the first place. I still have the same body - it's just smaller and has lower body fat.
as for #3? hell, yeah, I look a ton better than I did before. I know this because I get "looks" at the gym from guys, who quite frankly could be my kids in another life, and they're giving me "looks" while I'm lifting weights and working out rather than flouncing around and just looking decorative like some of the women their own age are doing.. cough, cough, not judging, of course..0 -
callmecarina wrote: »
That's the truth for sure, but I can't turn it off. I care about people and have this funny little thing called empathy. It's the reason why despite the fact that I vehemently don't agree with you, I can still see past that and not attack or judge you personally. (And even though it's apparent that you have thick skin, I still hope you don't take any of this debating personally!sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.)
That's kinda why it boggles my mind that if other people would bother saying anything in the first place. If you can shrug off BS, cool. But why project BS onto others too? If it doesn't actually help others (which there seems to be research and experience that shows that by and large this is the case) then it's only self-serving because it doesn't actually help others, it's just another excuse to go on about yourself and what worked for you.
Why is it that the diet/fitness industry is so lucrative and doing so well if all that humans need is to stop whining, work hard, and shurg off BS. It's likely because this is next to impossible (mentally) for many people.
Self serving for me is fine. I'm not on here for you. This was put out there for people who don't whine and who take work seriously. No one is actually walking up to people and criticizing them, but part of the message is that if you put yourself out there people will judge you. That's life and it's merely a reminder. Speaking of judgment, you're awfully judgy yourself and yet you complain with every post. If the message bothers you then look in the mirror and figure out why. It's not my problem and I'm not going to make it my problem. You're your own person. Find what works for you. Or don't. If you can't shrug it off then you lose, not me. And, to be clear, this isn't a debate. This approach works for quite a few successful people. I'm not here to be your sounding board or debate you. Again, if you don't like it, deal with it. It works for me.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »
That's the truth for sure, but I can't turn it off. I care about people and have this funny little thing called empathy. It's the reason why despite the fact that I vehemently don't agree with you, I can still see past that and not attack or judge you personally. (And even though it's apparent that you have thick skin, I still hope you don't take any of this debating personally!sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.)
That's kinda why it boggles my mind that if other people would bother saying anything in the first place. If you can shrug off BS, cool. But why project BS onto others too? If it doesn't actually help others (which there seems to be research and experience that shows that by and large this is the case) then it's only self-serving because it doesn't actually help others, it's just another excuse to go on about yourself and what worked for you.
Why is it that the diet/fitness industry is so lucrative and doing so well if all that humans need is to stop whining, work hard, and shurg off BS. It's likely because this is next to impossible (mentally) for many people.
Self serving for me is fine. I'm not on here for you. This was put out there for people who don't whine and who take work seriously. No one is actually walking up to people and criticizing them, but part of the message is that if you put yourself out there people will judge you. That's life and it's merely a reminder. Speaking of judgment, you're awfully judgy yourself and yet you complain with every post. If the message bothers you then look in the mirror and figure out why. It's not my problem and I'm not going to make it my problem. You're your own person. Find what works for you. Or don't. If you can't shrug it off then you lose, not me. And, to be clear, this isn't a debate. This approach works for quite a few successful people. I'm not here to be your sounding board or debate you. Again, if you don't like it, deal with it. It works for me.
If you missed it the first time, I'm with the gal who said that when people take issue with other people poopin' all over other people's self-acceptance. I, personally, happen to have thick skin in that respect (and literally in that I need to lose weight too!
), but I will call out bull when I sees it.
Fair enough, your intention wasn't to make this a debate. But I think what needs to be said is that this approach works for quite a few successful people, but can be detrimental to quite a few others as well. I just wanted to make sure that people don't take this as carte blanche to criticize others and feel okay because someone on a blog said it was.
Yes, I may come off judgy, but let's put it into perspective. I'm critical of the idea that it's okay to be critical to the potential detriment of others, because god forbid we label anything as PC anymore because you're infringing on my rights rather than thinking "well, hell, it's not my body, it's not my issue."
Also, it seems ironic that you're telling me to "deal with it" if I don't like it, because I shouldn't criticize someone else's point that criticizing can be okay.1 -
callmecarina wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »
That's the truth for sure, but I can't turn it off. I care about people and have this funny little thing called empathy. It's the reason why despite the fact that I vehemently don't agree with you, I can still see past that and not attack or judge you personally. (And even though it's apparent that you have thick skin, I still hope you don't take any of this debating personally!sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.)
That's kinda why it boggles my mind that if other people would bother saying anything in the first place. If you can shrug off BS, cool. But why project BS onto others too? If it doesn't actually help others (which there seems to be research and experience that shows that by and large this is the case) then it's only self-serving because it doesn't actually help others, it's just another excuse to go on about yourself and what worked for you.
Why is it that the diet/fitness industry is so lucrative and doing so well if all that humans need is to stop whining, work hard, and shurg off BS. It's likely because this is next to impossible (mentally) for many people.
Self serving for me is fine. I'm not on here for you. This was put out there for people who don't whine and who take work seriously. No one is actually walking up to people and criticizing them, but part of the message is that if you put yourself out there people will judge you. That's life and it's merely a reminder. Speaking of judgment, you're awfully judgy yourself and yet you complain with every post. If the message bothers you then look in the mirror and figure out why. It's not my problem and I'm not going to make it my problem. You're your own person. Find what works for you. Or don't. If you can't shrug it off then you lose, not me. And, to be clear, this isn't a debate. This approach works for quite a few successful people. I'm not here to be your sounding board or debate you. Again, if you don't like it, deal with it. It works for me.
If you missed it the first time, I'm with the gal who said that when people take issue with other people poopin' all over other people's self-acceptance. I, personally, happen to have thick skin in that respect (and literally in that I need to lose weight too!), but I will call out bull when I sees it.
Fair enough, your intention wasn't to make this a debate. But I think what needs to be said is that this approach works for quite a few successful people, but can be detrimental to quite a few others as well. I just wanted to make sure that people don't take this as carte blanche to criticize others and feel okay because someone on a blog said it was.
Yes, I may come off judgy, but let's put it into perspective. I'm critical of the idea that it's okay to be critical to the potential detriment of others, because god forbid we label anything as PC anymore because you're infringing on my rights rather than thinking "well, hell, it's not my body, it's not my issue."
Also, it seems ironic that you're telling me to "deal with it" if I don't like it, because I shouldn't criticize someone else's point that criticizing can be okay.
My guess is that it's detrimental to people who need counseling. Your own profile says you have a long way to go and you're not comfortable in your own skin. You may want to step back and consider that when you're reading the article and think about why it bothers you so much. If you want to succeed then spend some time focusing on your own internal dialogue and triggers. I hope you can find your way and achieve your goals.0 -
Self acceptance is one thing, but having delusions that you're fine the way you are is another. I also think its fine to judge people, but unless its someone close to you, you should be polite. Lets take this lady as an example:
Do you think she has a thyroid issue that's making her obese? Or do you think its her eating habits? I can judge her and say, "I'm not going to end up like that," however I'd never make a negative comment to her and offer encouragement as needed. Also, I bet you judged her too when you looked at the picture.0 -
thefuzz1290 wrote: »Self acceptance is one thing, but having delusions that you're fine the way you are is another. I also think its fine to judge people, but unless its someone close to you, you should be polite. Lets take this lady as an example:
Do you think she has a thyroid issue that's making her obese? Or do you think its her eating habits? I can judge her and say, "I'm not going to end up like that," however I'd never make a negative comment to her and offer encouragement as needed. Also, I bet you judged her too when you looked at the picture.
I seriously doubt anyone on MFP would take it upon himself or herself to walk up to someone like that and criticise her. Judge? Yes, people will judge her, and regardless of what people say openly, they will. My own reaction is one of sympathy quickly followed by a recognition that she's probably past the point where she'll get help and recover. It's quite similar to my reactions when I see someone with any other mental illness. And yes, I'm not thinking thyroid issue, I'm thinking coping mechanism. I know most won't get help.
This is also a good time to distinguish weight loss and fitness goals by type of person: (1) people who are mentally okay but are working on physical self improvement and (2) people who need counseling. You can't treat both types of people the same and what motivates them will be different as their thinking and needs will be different. If someone is mentally ill then they need counseling and/or other treatment during their weight loss process. You can't treat the physical manifestations of mental illness without treating the underlying issue. If you do, then the weight is going to just come right back on.3 -
I thought that article is ridiculous. The "lies" she's refuting are extreme generalisations anyway, which made the whole thing pretty meaningless to me.
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I think Dani Shugart is a bit of a *kitten*. Her ability to convey a good message - work hard for what you want and don't fall into the idea of insincere body positive as justification for abandoning goals - is lost in translation. The idea that there can be good body positive messages and insincere body positive justifications seems to be sidestepped in the article. I completely agree with her when it comes to insincere body positive messages - people telling themselves that failure is okay - but I don't agree with her vague indication that body positive is always insincere (she should clarify). With regard to the cervix and bible verses quip, in my house, sexy time is quite a religious experience. I've been known to call on God frequently.2
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AmandaHugginkiss wrote: »I think Dani Shugart is a bit of a *kitten*. Her ability to convey a good message - work hard for what you want and don't fall into the idea of insincere body positive as justification for abandoning goals - is lost in translation. The idea that there can be good body positive messages and insincere body positive justifications seems to be sidestepped in the article. I completely agree with her when it comes to insincere body positive messages - people telling themselves that failure is okay - but I don't agree with her vague indication that body positive is always insincere (she should clarify). With regard to the cervix and bible verses quip, in my house, sexy time is quite a religious experience. I've been known to call on God frequently.
Yes. Yes, you have. Okay. You win, dear.0 -
dopeysmelly wrote: »I like the article. I like it mostly because it's honest. That whole loving the body you have.. you know, I never really bought that. But then I never really spent much time thinking about my body in the first place. I still have the same body - it's just smaller and has lower body fat.
as for #3? hell, yeah, I look a ton better than I did before. I know this because I get "looks" at the gym from guys, who quite frankly could be my kids in another life, and they're giving me "looks" while I'm lifting weights and working out rather than flouncing around and just looking decorative like some of the women their own age are doing.. cough, cough, not judging, of course..
Nice!0 -
AmandaHugginkiss wrote: »I think Dani Shugart is a bit of a *kitten*. Her ability to convey a good message - work hard for what you want and don't fall into the idea of insincere body positive as justification for abandoning goals - is lost in translation. The idea that there can be good body positive messages and insincere body positive justifications seems to be sidestepped in the article. I completely agree with her when it comes to insincere body positive messages - people telling themselves that failure is okay - but I don't agree with her vague indication that body positive is always insincere (she should clarify). With regard to the cervix and bible verses quip, in my house, sexy time is quite a religious experience. I've been known to call on God frequently.
Ha! I can certainly relate to that last bit.
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Good article, though lacking in nuance. Had to ignore the incredibly stretched definition of political correctness to say that though. Oh was that not politically correct?! YOU CANT SAY ANYTHING THESE DAYS! Rabble rabble.1
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thefuzz1290 wrote: »Self acceptance is one thing, but having delusions that you're fine the way you are is another. I also think its fine to judge people, but unless its someone close to you, you should be polite. Lets take this lady as an example:
Do you think she has a thyroid issue that's making her obese? Or do you think its her eating habits? I can judge her and say, "I'm not going to end up like that," however I'd never make a negative comment to her and offer encouragement as needed. Also, I bet you judged her too when you looked at the picture.
I can't judge her, I feel sorry for her. I've been there, well not THERE but I've stuffed myself with food because I'm miserable. I think she's self destructive and I want to rip that cheese from her hands but judgement? Do I think she's inferior? Does she deserve to be like that? No. I have no idea if she has a thyroid issue but I got sick and I ate and ate to try and not deal with the fact I was sick and my life was changed forever. I became obese through illness and my own choices. She might not have, it might be food and food alone, but my own experiences have shaped my opinion on obesity and until I know the full picture it seems prudent to reserve judgement. Unless you think pointing out eating the cheese is self destructive qualifies as judgement, in which case my whole point is moot!2 -
Meh. Agree with some disagree with some. I don't give a hoot about others wanting to show whatever they want to show, including cleavages, big bellies, selfies and bible verses. Their bodies their problem. I don't feel the need to be politically correct or overtly offensive. I simply don't care enough to do either because what people do does not affect me, but when put on the spot I tend to err on the side of tact and empathy as basic human interaction skills.
I don't have to be head over heels in love with my body, but I also don't see why I need to hate it to achieve something. I don't mind it. I may even like it. How I feel about it is none of anyone's business. Humans are inherently self-absorbed. Faking humility is just as disingenuous as faking self love.
The only one I totally agree with is the last. Train for whatever the hell you want to train for. Personal priorities are personal for a reason, and yours don't need to match mine.
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thefuzz1290 wrote: »Self acceptance is one thing, but having delusions that you're fine the way you are is another. I also think its fine to judge people, but unless its someone close to you, you should be polite. Lets take this lady as an example:
Do you think she has a thyroid issue that's making her obese? Or do you think its her eating habits? I can judge her and say, "I'm not going to end up like that," however I'd never make a negative comment to her and offer encouragement as needed. Also, I bet you judged her too when you looked at the picture.
Having been just as obese my train of thought is a bit different. She likely knows she is obese, and she likely knows why. Not doing something about it does not imply some negative personality trait. It simply means she has different priorities and rationale for her choices just like I had. I don't feel sorry for her or see her in a negative light. I just see her as a person who made a choice, just like everyone else in various other areas. "Not ending up like that again" has nothing to do with her looking the way she looks. It has to do with my personal experience of my heath going to hell when I was morbidly obese.2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »callmecarina wrote: »
That's the truth for sure, but I can't turn it off. I care about people and have this funny little thing called empathy. It's the reason why despite the fact that I vehemently don't agree with you, I can still see past that and not attack or judge you personally. (And even though it's apparent that you have thick skin, I still hope you don't take any of this debating personally!sunnybeaches105 wrote: »I've found that when looking to increase one's mileage in life that a lack of whining, plenty of hard work, and the ability to shrug off a good amount of other's BS go a very long way. If you care more about other's sensitivity to your needs than your own progress then that's fine, but it comes at a cost like it or not.)
That's kinda why it boggles my mind that if other people would bother saying anything in the first place. If you can shrug off BS, cool. But why project BS onto others too? If it doesn't actually help others (which there seems to be research and experience that shows that by and large this is the case) then it's only self-serving because it doesn't actually help others, it's just another excuse to go on about yourself and what worked for you.
Why is it that the diet/fitness industry is so lucrative and doing so well if all that humans need is to stop whining, work hard, and shurg off BS. It's likely because this is next to impossible (mentally) for many people.
Self serving for me is fine. I'm not on here for you. This was put out there for people who don't whine and who take work seriously. No one is actually walking up to people and criticizing them, but part of the message is that if you put yourself out there people will judge you. That's life and it's merely a reminder. Speaking of judgment, you're awfully judgy yourself and yet you complain with every post. If the message bothers you then look in the mirror and figure out why. It's not my problem and I'm not going to make it my problem. You're your own person. Find what works for you. Or don't. If you can't shrug it off then you lose, not me. And, to be clear, this isn't a debate. This approach works for quite a few successful people. I'm not here to be your sounding board or debate you. Again, if you don't like it, deal with it. It works for me.
If you missed it the first time, I'm with the gal who said that when people take issue with other people poopin' all over other people's self-acceptance. I, personally, happen to have thick skin in that respect (and literally in that I need to lose weight too!), but I will call out bull when I sees it.
Fair enough, your intention wasn't to make this a debate. But I think what needs to be said is that this approach works for quite a few successful people, but can be detrimental to quite a few others as well. I just wanted to make sure that people don't take this as carte blanche to criticize others and feel okay because someone on a blog said it was.
Yes, I may come off judgy, but let's put it into perspective. I'm critical of the idea that it's okay to be critical to the potential detriment of others, because god forbid we label anything as PC anymore because you're infringing on my rights rather than thinking "well, hell, it's not my body, it's not my issue."
Also, it seems ironic that you're telling me to "deal with it" if I don't like it, because I shouldn't criticize someone else's point that criticizing can be okay.
My guess is that it's detrimental to people who need counseling. Your own profile says you have a long way to go and you're not comfortable in your own skin. You may want to step back and consider that when you're reading the article and think about why it bothers you so much. If you want to succeed then spend some time focusing on your own internal dialogue and triggers. I hope you can find your way and achieve your goals.
It varies. For the most part, I'm comfortable in my own skin, but when I'm out and about in society, that's when I become aware of the fact that my body literally has to brush against other people's bodies on a crowded train. Ha! Those are the times where I am uncomfortable, but I think it's still more mild than a true discomfort. Is more mildly irritating.
In fact just last Friday I went to Zumba even though I left my shirt at home (jiggly bits EVERYWHERE, with all the moving and shaking). I actually went to a Zumba class in a sports bra as a top and I didn't die of embarrassment, as I might have once thought I would. In fact, I ran into a male coworker on the way to the locker room and I didn't care, and he didn't care. We even had a brief chit chat about yoga before we went our separate ways.
Perhaps part of the reason is that I've accepted the fact that I am working towards my goal, and am in better health than I have been in the past five years. But that's come from a long time of lack of acceptance of my body. Now that I've accepted my body, I feel like I can move past it and just do the best I can. And I'm losing weight and building muscle, one slow pound at a time.
I can pinpoint exactly why the article bugged me. It's because Dani's message was lost in the smug attitude and tone. It's one thing to say "I did it because X, Y, Z worked for me," but it's another thing to say "and that's how it should work for everyone if they have the motivation.*smirk, smirk, smirk*" Because her method doesn't work for all doesn't mean that one lacks motivation. It takes a hell of a lot of courage to step foot in a gym when you're dozens or even hundreds of pounds overweight.
What I guess I'm saying is that she's preaching gospel, but no one but the choir will understand. The rest of folks just hear "judge, judge, poke, poke."
Thanks for wishing me luck in achieving my goals, that's appreciated. 0
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