does anyone else think alcoholics anonymous is a joke?
derek1237654
Posts: 234 Member
in Chit-Chat
I would like to say that if AA actually works for you then thats great.
AA has done nothing for me actually less than nothing. Im forced to go to AA/NA by my employer as i had a addiction to prescription medications....in fact i still have to go even though i dont drink or do drugs or even think about drugs whatsover. In fact its the opposite im disgusted by drugs and alcohol.
I just somehow got better....i found a medication to treat depression i lost 70 pounds and have zero interest in alcohol or drugs....you could say i just aged out or matured i guess.
When i go to AA i dont pay attention at all i just put my headphones in and listen to a podcast or something more productive because i just dont care. All they do is talk about the same garbage over and over again and how they are powerless. Well i dont feel powerless i feel empowered. I CHOOSE not to drink or do drugs because it is retarded....atleast it is to me. I can feel 100 times better by going to the gym than i ever could drinking 1 beer or 10 beers or pills.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Again im not saying dont go to AA im saying that there are much better ways than a 1930s cult
AA has done nothing for me actually less than nothing. Im forced to go to AA/NA by my employer as i had a addiction to prescription medications....in fact i still have to go even though i dont drink or do drugs or even think about drugs whatsover. In fact its the opposite im disgusted by drugs and alcohol.
I just somehow got better....i found a medication to treat depression i lost 70 pounds and have zero interest in alcohol or drugs....you could say i just aged out or matured i guess.
When i go to AA i dont pay attention at all i just put my headphones in and listen to a podcast or something more productive because i just dont care. All they do is talk about the same garbage over and over again and how they are powerless. Well i dont feel powerless i feel empowered. I CHOOSE not to drink or do drugs because it is retarded....atleast it is to me. I can feel 100 times better by going to the gym than i ever could drinking 1 beer or 10 beers or pills.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Again im not saying dont go to AA im saying that there are much better ways than a 1930s cult
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So much anger...4
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Seriously " a 1930's cult"?? How offensive are you? Just because you resent being there, because you just "somehow got better" (lucky you), why don't you stop thinking about "me,me, me", and get involved, share YOUR story, what worked for you and maybe inspire someone else at the meeting... From your other threads you seem to have swapped drug and alcohol addiction for hours and hours of exercise which is wonderful if it's working for you, although I'm not sure how sustainable that plan is, but that's on your other thread.
If you share your story instead of sitting there with your headphones on (how incredibly ignorant, rude and disrespectful to the leader and the other people there), thinking you are better than the others who have clearly failed in your eyes since they are getting help and comfort from the "cult", maybe you might be an inspiration instead of that ignorant man with his headphones on!16 -
Seriously " a 1930's cult"?? How offensive are you? Just because you resent being there, because you just "somehow got better" (lucky you), why don't you stop thinking about "me,me, me", and get involved, share YOUR story, what worked for you and maybe inspire someone else at the meeting... From your other threads you seem to have swapped drug and alcohol addiction for hours and hours of exercise which is wonderful if it's working for you, although I'm not sure how sustainable that plan is, but that's on your other thread.
If you share your story instead of sitting there with your headphones on (how incredibly ignorant, rude and disrespectful to the leader and the other people there), thinking you are better than the others who have clearly failed in your eyes since they are getting help and comfort from the "cult", maybe you might be an inspiration instead of that ignorant man with his headphones on!
I guess i posted this out of anger towards a certain dr who has mandated me to go to aa. I am going to check out smart recovery instead even though i dont need it....maybe i can help someone there....and i think this will meet my requirement for meeting attendance.
I DO resent AA though because it harmed me by telling me that i really had no choice in what i did...that i have to pray to a power constantly or never get better. Im an atheist and do not believe in any higher power at all. So no i do not think i am better than the other people i feel sorry for them because they are trapped in the clutches of a group that tells them the only way to stay sober or get sober is to believe they are powerless. IF that actually works for them then great but i wish i could show people there is another way without constantly practicing introspection about your past instead of doing things now and in the present...live in the present.
Yes it may be a douche move to listen to music while there but i just honestly cannot stomach the incessant negativity that goes on at these meetings.4 -
I'd take some Xanax if I were you.4
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Perhaps you aren't ready for AA.
I have been to AA meetings in the past to celebrate my grandfather's sobriety. He had been sober over 30 years when he died and and mentored many people who wanted to get better and change.
I think you haven't hit the bottom yet. Good luck with everything9 -
As an atheist, it is difficult to listen to all the "higher power" talk that goes on there and remain engaged. I've gone to a couple of AA meetings and I loved them, found them to be quite positive. The people there are working on getting their lives together and share what works and doesn't work for them, it's up to you what you get out of it. By tuning everyone out, you are not only being disrespectful to the group, but you're also cheating yourself out of learning something.
Those who do not follow the program and do their own thing, struggle with addiction and their lives. Those who follow the program are successful. Take the buds out of your ears and listen, you'd be amazed at what you can pick up regardless of your sobriety. Maybe you need a different group to meet with, some groups just aren't a match. SMART Recovery sounds like a good place, but don't be surprised if there is introspection.5 -
You don't have a choice. You are in a position of your own decision making. Once you have fulfilled your obligation, move on. Chalk it up to a lesson learned and don't repeat your mistakes or you'll be right back in AA. Although, the second time, your employer may not give you an opportunity.8
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MsAmandaNJ wrote: »As an atheist, it is difficult to listen to all the "higher power" talk that goes on there and remain engaged. I've gone to a couple of AA meetings and I loved them, found them to be quite positive. The people there are working on getting their lives together and share what works and doesn't work for them, it's up to you what you get out of it. By tuning everyone out, you are not only being disrespectful to the group, but you're also cheating yourself out of learning something.
Those who do not follow the program and do their own thing, struggle with addiction and their lives. Those who follow the program are successful. Take the buds out of your ears and listen, you'd be amazed at what you can pick up regardless of your sobriety. Maybe you need a different group to meet with, some groups just aren't a match. SMART Recovery sounds like a good place, but don't be surprised if there is introspection.
Even though there is a prayer I think that the idea is more community that we work as a community to help each other. My Grandpa was a sponsor for a few, when he died one was calling my dad to ask what he should do he felt helpless...we directed him to another AA person obviously. I think if the OP can find a sponsor/mentor that he clicks with then he will succeed.0 -
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MsAmandaNJ wrote: »As an atheist, it is difficult to listen to all the "higher power" talk that goes on there and remain engaged. I've gone to a couple of AA meetings and I loved them, found them to be quite positive. The people there are working on getting their lives together and share what works and doesn't work for them, it's up to you what you get out of it. By tuning everyone out, you are not only being disrespectful to the group, but you're also cheating yourself out of learning something.
Those who do not follow the program and do their own thing, struggle with addiction and their lives. Those who follow the program are successful. Take the buds out of your ears and listen, you'd be amazed at what you can pick up regardless of your sobriety. Maybe you need a different group to meet with, some groups just aren't a match. SMART Recovery sounds like a good place, but don't be surprised if there is introspection.
Even though there is a prayer I think that the idea is more community that we work as a community to help each other. My Grandpa was a sponsor for a few, when he died one was calling my dad to ask what he should do he felt helpless...we directed him to another AA person obviously. I think if the OP can find a sponsor/mentor that he clicks with then he will succeed.
Absolutely. You have to be a part of the community to help yourself and others. That's what a support group is. I agree finding a sponsor he works well with will make OP successful, but unless he is actually a part of the meeting (doesn't have to speak) and listens, shows that he wants help, a sponsor likely won't take him on. I think you're right that he is not ready for AA. He has to admit to himself that he has a problem, that it didn't go away overnight, that he didn't "age out" and mature. My grandmother decided one day she was done drinking, never touched it again. That's how she handled her problem, by not really dealing with it. Sometimes that seems easier, but it is not helpful because it teaches you to run from problems rather than dealing with the underlying cause.0 -
Well said. My grandfather decided that dating my grandmother (he was technically my step grandfather) was worth more than drinking. My grandmother went to a meeting and got him information which he spent one evening reading and said yep.0
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Well said. My grandfather decided that dating my grandmother (he was technically my step grandfather) was worth more than drinking. My grandmother went to a meeting and got him information which he spent one evening reading and said yep.
That's awesome she was able to reach him so easily, although the rest of the time was likely dark. I gave my mom a choice, she could have everything she wanted in life (me, family, friends, her grandchildren) or she could drink. I don't think I'm the reason she got sober, she was ready for it, just needed a little nudge. She questions whether it was "divine intervention", I don't think she's giving herself the credit she deserves. It takes strength to admit that you're weak/imperfect, admit that you have a problem, admit that you need help AND seek it out. That's human to me, not divinity. Either way, she's sober and happy, that's what is important.
On one hand, I feel it's a shame that AA has that religious aspect because it can turn many people off, but it is also a source of comfort for others. That said, you don't have to buy into that part in order to be successful. If you're dismissing the entire program, not even giving it a chance because of one aspect, you are cheating yourself big time.0 -
The doctor who ordered you to attend AA/NA, is that doctor under contract with your employer? Is there a time limit on this order?0
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It sounds like you have turned your addiction to something else, which is common for for people to do, usually it's jesus. It seems like you think that because the people there believe in something different than you that they are less than you or something. You think that you are some big strong guy, because you "grew out of it" and they are some silly little kids who do whatever somebody else says. Well the thing is they are trying to really understand why they had an addiction so they can try to get past it, when you seem to be burrying it, and almost denying that you really even had one. You say you wish you could show people what worked for you maybe you should take your headphones out and share your story in your words, and what worked for you since you want too so bad instead of holding so much anger towards everyone.2
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I did OA which is based on AA many years ago.
The whole "higher power" talk, while during the foundation of AA was God, in our modern times it can be anything, another deity, a loved one, a pet, the giant spaghetti monster or a pet rock. There is no need to rush to get offended; if other people choose God, please respect their choice while keeping in mind YOUR choice.2 -
no, i do not think it's a joke
i think it saves people's lives and helps family members with al anon too
higher power of your own choosing. could be a sponsor or a home group or a doorknob. because your best thinking hasn't gone so well.
i think it needs to be your own choice to go, forcing people to go is kinda the opposite of the original intent. however, your behavior is disrespectful5 -
MsAmandaNJ wrote: »
Those who do not follow the program and do their own thing, struggle with addiction and their lives. Those who follow the program are successful.
that is inherently false....the AA success rate is thought to be about 5-10% only
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derek1237654 wrote: »I would like to say that if AA actually works for you then thats great.
AA has done nothing for me actually less than nothing. Im forced to go to AA/NA by my employer as i had a addiction to prescription medications....in fact i still have to go even though i dont drink or do drugs or even think about drugs whatsover. In fact its the opposite im disgusted by drugs and alcohol.
I just somehow got better....i found a medication to treat depression i lost 70 pounds and have zero interest in alcohol or drugs....you could say i just aged out or matured i guess.
When i go to AA i dont pay attention at all i just put my headphones in and listen to a podcast or something more productive because i just dont care. All they do is talk about the same garbage over and over again and how they are powerless. Well i dont feel powerless i feel empowered. I CHOOSE not to drink or do drugs because it is retarded....atleast it is to me. I can feel 100 times better by going to the gym than i ever could drinking 1 beer or 10 beers or pills.
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Again im not saying dont go to AA im saying that there are much better ways than a 1930s cult
Here's the thing: It's not meant for people like you. AA was designed to address the problems facing a certain type of alcoholic; the most hopeless. They specifically describe situations like yours and differentiate from the problem they are addressing. The fact that you are in fact empowered kind of excludes you from the steps they practice.
Now, they are open to anyone who has a desire to stop drinking, so it's not like you aren't welcome, but you will find that a lot of the information is not applicable to your type of drinking and Narcotics use.
I find in life, that it is always helpful to try to get the most out of any situation you are in. You never know when this experience will prove to be helpful later on in life. Steve Jobs had a graduation speech in which he talked about how having a calligraphy class in college provided him with concepts he used to formulate the basic typeface for apple computers. You never know when you might encounter the type of alcoholic that needs AA and having knowledge of the program (even though you don't need it) could prove useful.0 -
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i found a medication to treat depression
^^^^
This is like an alcoholic saying "I am just drinking beer. I'm cured!"1 -
Did you ever think maybe you didn't just magically get better? Did you ever think that by taking pain meds you were self medicating your depression and once the depression was properly treated you no longer needed the pain meds?3
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McCluskey1128 wrote: »Did you ever think maybe you didn't just magically get better? Did you ever think that by taking pain meds you were self medicating your depression and once the depression was properly treated you no longer needed the pain meds?
That's a pretty bold diagnosis for someone you don't know personally.2 -
Oh nice use of the r word OP. That's one of the most insulting and degrading words around and so now people with drug addictions and alcoholics are r?1
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Yes you are absolutely right about the AA success rate of 5 to 10 %. It barely has a better success rate than if you do nothing at all. That being said i think i do believe it has something to offer most people. And i have a sponsor who has become more of a good friend than anything. We talk about a lot of different things ...our general struggles etc....but he doesnt push me to do the steps or anything hes just happy that i found a way to be sober. And for those who would say im a "dry drunk"...i think you are misinformed. The only aspect of my life in which im angry is having to go to AA because it gets in the way of more productive things that i could be doing. I guess its hard to accept that there are people who can be fine without AA....because i am happy and i dont drink or want to drink. So IF things change and i at some point feel the urge to use then ill reconsider AA.
I just rationally cannot put effort into a program that is faith based. I believe in science not pseudoscience. So no i cannot call my higher power a doorknob or the group....because there is no higher power than yourself. In the end we all will die but only some of us will have really lived....you get one life and that is it. Anything else is just speculation.
The problem with AA is that if i take my headphones out and try to help people in the way i helped myself...i will be shunned for being in denial. That is my experience in the past.
Am i in denial that i am an addict...no i am not in denial about that ...but i ask you this question...if i dont use drugs or think about them and am not miserable in life then why would i need to revisit the idea of being an addict all the time?1 -
i found a medication to treat depression
^^^^
This is like an alcoholic saying "I am just drinking beer. I'm cured!"
No, it's not. I know the old timers insist that ALL medications must be avoided, but depression is a medical condition, and for some that includes psychotropic medications. To shun his antidepressant would be equivalent to skipping his blood pressure medication.
OP, while I think you could phrase your feelings a bit better to avoid insulting those that are in the program, I do relate to where you are coming from. I have gone to AA meetings for work (escorting my patients who are in recovery) and yes, it felt like a religious cult. At least the one I went to. They basically said that if you don't take a higher power and accept powerlessness, you will not succeed. There was also a chapter in the big book called "To the Agnostic", which felt like an attempt at conversion. Now mind you that book was written a LONG time ago, so I let it pass (it's also horribly misogynistic). As a fellow atheist, I'd be upset as well if I was mandated to go.
I like the idea of SMART recovery, because the point of that program is identifying the unhealthy thinking you were stuck in and changing behaviors to obtain and maintain recovery. Other options are SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) and Lifering.3 -
I agree with the OP. . to a point. AA is very helpful to a very specific personality type. However, it's adherents push it as the one and only solution to addiction for everybody. It isn't and it actually has the opposite effect on MANY!. . Like the OP the idea of powerlessness and the notion that you WILL fail that were drilled into my head simply fed the 'beast' within. I swear I went out and drank after EVERY AA meeting. .It was utterly depressing and damaging to my self-control.
I see in this thread the AA talk. .They love to tell any former addict that they either aren't really an addict or they aren't really a former addict ant that they WILL FAIL!. . attack attack attack . . It's impossible for them to believe that someone can kick it without AA so they ridicule and dismiss.
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i found a medication to treat depression
^^^^
This is like an alcoholic saying "I am just drinking beer. I'm cured!"
So you are comparing medication designed with science for the purpose of helping people with a brain disorder such as depression to alcohol discovered millenia ago and used to get drunk and temporarily forget about your problems? I think there is a reason why doctors prescribe antidepressants and not alcohol to people.2 -
sunn_lighter wrote: »reddevil614 wrote: »MsAmandaNJ wrote: »
Those who do not follow the program and do their own thing, struggle with addiction and their lives. Those who follow the program are successful.
that is inherently false....the AA success rate is thought to be about 5-10% only
That's right.
OP, Google "Orange Papers"
Forced participation in a religious organization, which all 12 Step groups are, is in violation of the U.S. Constitution.
If you are in the U.S., an organization called Rational Recovery can assist you in helping you legally disentangle yourself from the 12 Step train wreck.
It's not the only game in town. There are other modes of recovery besides the disease model of addiction where the so called treatment is divulging your personal information in front of a group of chronic relapsers while conceding that a doorknob should be your higher power.
www.rational.org
everything here ^^^ +1
rr is an awesome program
indeed1 -
It might be more help to you if you took off your headphones and paid attention. Seems like the chip on your shoulder is preventing you from seeing that everyone (even you?) can use a little self reflection.3
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