Help me learn to squat

mreichard

I'm a 49 year old, 200lb 6'2" guy and I started doing stronglifts 5x5 about a month ago. I recently videoed myself and realized my squat form was terrible and that I was not going as low as I thought.

This is a clip from today of my 4th set at 135 lbs. This is better than the set I videoed last week, but the problem I have here is that when I go anywhere close to parallel (see the last rep), my chest comes forward and I end up lifting with my back and struggling, even though I don't feel this in my legs much at all.

Any advice and tips are welcome. I assume I need to lower the weight and learn the form. How much should I lower the weight? Should I be squatting lower than I am in the last rep of this set?

Thanks!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S7GplMEHVc

singingflutelady

One thing I notice is that it looks like you are starting the squat with your knees instead of your hips

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oph296

From the first sight: keep your barbell lower; no hip hinge; widen your stance


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hips-dont-lie-3-drills-to-nail-hip-hinge.html

good example from Pauline Nordin
https://youtu.be/Ri7exRwxHhc

another one more technical and in details for heavy squats
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/how-to-squat-tutorial.html

Obeg

You probably should have bailed out on that last rep - your form was so far off on that one you are risking injury especially with bigger weight. Don't be ashamed to bail out especially when you have support bars in place. Live to fight another day.

Also - you might check out this site and get a membership. It is pretty dead right now... but the gist of the community is supposed to be support for those doing 5x5 and similar strength routines. You can browse the other's members training journals where you will see videos of this and the other basic Olympic lifts.

http://crazystrength.com/

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mreichard

Thanks folks. I will work on getting hips back and pushing off my heels. To answer some questions: I did 5 squats with the empty bar to warm up. I did not do any stretching before.

singingflutelady

_MistahJ_ wrote: »

Mark Rippetoe

https://youtu.be/kawBY5p29fQ

Don't watch the wannabe MMA fighter on how to squat.

I really like Alan Thrall's squat video too

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bs_Ej32IYgo

hill8570

I'd do box squats during the warm-up sets before hitting working weight. That will give you a reference for depth, and help teach you to get the butt back and use the posterior chain to come out of the hole. Focus on keeping your knees pushed out going down and coming up, too -- if your knees collapse in, your posterior chain recruitment goes way down.

You'll want to deload significantly, 'tho -- pretty obvious your form is going bye-bye at the weight you're currently on. Glad you were able to catch the problem before you injured yourself.

BekahC1980

One thing I also noticed is you are doing the same thing I used to with going forward a little. It really helps if you gaze upwards instead of straight on.

SonyaCele

the first couple actualy didnt' look so bad, your form fell apart a little when you started to fatigue but you struggled to keep your chest up which is great. . you really gotta squeeze your glutes , spread the floor, torque your knees out, etc. Whatever cue works for you to push up with your glutes and not bend forward. i actually didn't think your form was all that bad. And you were way below parallel in every rep, you might not need to go that low.

kimdawnhayden

I've seen some people place small weight plates under their heels. I think it helps keep them upright instead of tilting forward. You can google the benefit or lack of it. Something to look into.

FabianRodriguez94

I think an extra bit of warm up and stretching will definitely help. I like to do each for 5 reps: bar, 95lbs, 135 lbs. Use whatever weights you'd say are pretty light for you, as long as you slowly and comfortably progress up to your working sets (so maybe for you: bar, 65 lbs, 85 lbs). Then after I will start my working sets after a bit of stretching. I find that my form suffers when jumping straight into my sets with no stretching or warm up. Might have something to do with lactic acid, I don't know, but my form is much stronger with a proper warm up.

JennELKA_78744

I think that working on your form and lowering the weight for now would be a good idea, the last thing you need is an injury. I have had trainers show me two ways to practice best form. Just like in those videos, chest open, chin up but then try both of these (1) One face the wall, with no weights, and do a squat. If you tend to lean forward, this is definitely going to show you what you're doing wrong! (2) Another way is to sit on the edge of a chair that is the right height to get your femur parallel to the floor, stand up, then try to sit back without actually touching the chair and then go back up. Maybe at the gym the bench press is at a good height for you? Too tall for me, I'm only 5'5". Both of those will teach your brain how to do a perfect

DopeItUp

oph296 wrote: »

From the first sight: keep your barbell lower; no hip hinge; widen your stance


http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/hips-dont-lie-3-drills-to-nail-hip-hinge.html

good example from Pauline Nordin
https://youtu.be/Ri7exRwxHhc

That might be the worst squat tutorial I've ever seen. And I've seen a lot of them.

oph296

Here's what you need to know... [source]

1. When you squat, use your hips. This will require a more horizontal back angle than you think.
2. You may have heard that you must stay upright when you squat, with as vertical a back angle as possible. You've heard wrong. Think "rigid," not "vertical."
3. The angle of hip flexion must equal the back angle if the spinal relationships are to remain neutral.
4. The cue to "Point your nipples at the floor" works very well for the squat.
5. Looking up when squatting does nothing but fight against the correct back angle. Look down.
6. If your hamstrings get sore when you squat, you're doing something wrong.

SideSteel

I have some thoughts, will post in a bit.

SideSteel

Here's my assessment. This isn't complete and it's for good reason -- You shouldn't focus on 10 different things when you squat or you'll never learn any of them effectively.

If you try this out, feel free to repost a video from BOTH the side view AND the front or back view so I can see what happens at the ankle and at the knee from the opposite view.

The biggest issue I see is lateral collapse at the ankle. It's very pronounced in your right foot and it's typically indicative of mobility issues at the ankle.

See here for a more detailed explanation and some mobility drills:
http://deansomerset.com/foot-and-ankle-stuff-for-meatheads/


You might benefit from a squat shoe with a raised heel. If you dont want to spend too much, look at the Wei Rui brand. Elevated heels will reduce ankle dorsiflexion demands.

The other thing I'd like you to do is to take about 40lbs off the bar and start squatting often at a lower intensity. Don't push to the point of grindy reps. Practice frequently (3+ days/week) but keep set and rep ranges low so that you're not accumulating much fatigue on any given set, so movement quality stays high on each individual rep.

Frequent practice will help a ton if the practice is higher quality.

As far as adjusting the technique and your question:
1) You should squat deeper if you can do so safely and effectively.

You likely can't at the moment (especially at that load) but hopefully soon. You're not far off though. One rep looked shallow to me and others were close.


If you're not going to compete then don't worry too much about it honestly.


2) Think about screwing your feet into the floor such that you are pressing into the floor and attempting to screw the feet outwards (left foot applies a counterclockwise torque, right foot clockwise). This may help the ankle collapse a bit by giving you a better feeling of solid contact into the floor. Focus on feeling the outer edges of your feet firmly planted into the floor.

Post a video from the back once you've tried 2).


Consider light goblet squats to a low box daily as this may improve mobility and help groove the motor patterns faster too.

mreichard

Thanks everyone. SideSteel, my right ankle was repeatedly injured years ago and is pretty stiff. I see it collapsing in now that you mention it. I'll look through the link you provided and also focus on grooving the motion at lower weight.

mreichard

Today, for the first time since I started trying to do them, squats seemed to make sense to me.

I've been working at a lower weight (and doing some light goblet squats) to try to learn the motion. Today, for the first time I felt like I was using my whole legs and glutes to push up. Really cool --- felt much easier.

The cues that seemed to help the most were pushing my knees out and having my weight on the outsides of my feet. That felt like it brought in other muscles that I was not using before.

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47Jacqueline

Start with a large balance ball against a wall, progress to wall squats, start free squatting, add free weights, then start with the heavy equipment.

Don't be stupid and ruin your knees while you're heavy or you'll just have issues as you age.

SideSteel

mreichard wrote: »

Today, for the first time since I started trying to do them, squats seemed to make sense to me.

I've been working at a lower weight (and doing some light goblet squats) to try to learn the motion. Today, for the first time I felt like I was using my whole legs and glutes to push up. Really cool --- felt much easier.

The cues that seemed to help the most were pushing my knees out and having my weight on the outsides of my feet. That felt like it brought in other muscles that I was not using before.

Excellent

lizzelspark

Check out Layne Norton squat video there's so many things to remember to do with the squat try wearing a weight lifter belt so you can feel if your filling up your belly with air which helps and when you come up engage your glutes don't ever lose your form once you feel your loosing it rack it you don't want to get hurt .

ArmyofAdrian

Glad you're seeing progress. The squat is a challenge for me as well. One thing that helped me a bit was to flex the glutes at the beginning and at the top of each rep. This got my hips in line with my feet.

I'm going to try what you're doing with pushing the knees out and weight on the outsides of my feet; I get lateral hip pain after squats that stays around for a few days. Hopefully that will help.

Walter__

Ditch those shoes.

Squatting with cushioned shoes is like trying to squat on top of a mattress - unstable.

Use some flat shoes or go barefoot.


Seems like everyone has addressed your other issues already about pushing your knees out and keeping your feet firmly planted without collapsing.

theWODdoll

Keep your chest up in ALL of your reps. You just have some limited range of motion in your thoracic spine (middle back) which is causing you to lean forward during your squat, not bad tho! Work on the mechanics before adding weights. I'm gonna post some videos on MFP soon if you're interested in learning some techniques!

codsterlaing95

Get better footwear. Do not using running shoes to squat/deadlift/etc.

mreichard

Yeah, I forgot to mention in my update above - the other thing that I did was to start squatting barefoot. Feels much more stable.