Few calories = WEIGH GAIN

nlhill79

This whole theory derailed all of my attempts at weight loss. I still can't comprehend how people can say that you will GAIN WEIGHT by not eating enough calories. Your body can't go into starvation mode if you are eating! This is such a crazy and dangerous non-scientific theory that throws people off. Or hey, maybe I am wrong. I'd love to see some information on this. So say for example a person has gastric bypass and they are only eating 900 calories per day because that is all they can eat? Are their bodies going into starvation mode? NO. They eat very few calories per day because that is all they can eat, and they lose a lot of weight because of the deficit. Now, on the other hand, they might not get all the nutrients they need, but they will still lose weight. If you are a person who believes that you can GAIN WEIGHT by not eating ENOUGH calories please elaborate and link us to the science you use for your belief. Please.

ladynocturne

What people MEAN to say is that once you eat below your BMR long enough, you'll lose most of your lean muscle mass, lowering your metabolism.

Once you try to eat "normal" again, you cannot maintain your weight on the same amount of calories that a person of the same weight and height could. Thus gaining fat due to a damaged metabolism.

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy, so if you don't eat enough calories (your BMR), it will take your skeletal muscles to run itself, and it uses more energy than most people realize.

Extremely obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently than someone who has less than 50lbs to lose.

Greenrun99

And here... We.. Go...


Search function, find all the stuff you want.

bcattoes

Some people on MFP are just crazy with this "large deficit = weight gain" stuff. Not long ago I saw someone argue that eating nothing (literally nothing) for 2 days after surgery caused them to gain 6 lbs. :laugh:

sarahlynnmartin

http://www.builtlean.com/2010/04/27/starvation-mode-are-you-eating-enough/

Your body burns a certain amount of calories throughout the day. You also burn calories with exercise. Not eating enough calories to counteract what you burned will starve your body of the energy and nutrients. You need to at LEAST eat your daily goal plus some of what you burned to lose weight in a healthy way.

EDIT: I refused to eat my work out calories for a month and didn't lose a single pound. I gave up and decided to try eating my work out calories and I lost 2 pounds in the first week.

shadow2soul

I'm not sure where the weight gain thing came from, but your metabolism could slow down to match your intake. Which in turn would prevent you from losing weight. For example, the thread I linked to below.


http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/238282-700-calories-a-day-and-not-losing-redux?hl=700+calories+and+obese

AverageUkDude

Wow, this is still a topic of conversation.

nlhill79

What people MEAN to say is that once you eat below your BMR long enough, you'll lose most of your lean muscle mass, lowering your metabolism.

Once you try to eat "normal" again, you cannot maintain your weight on the same amount of calories that a person of the same weight and height could. Thus gaining fat due to a damaged metabolism.

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy, so if you don't eat enough calories (your BMR), it will take your skeletal muscles to run itself, and it uses more energy than most people realize.

Extremely obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently than someone who has less than 50lbs to lose.

When your body starts consuming muscle for energy your body odor will change. You will smell like straight ammonia. When your body consumes muscle it will change your breath. Your breath will smell like some type of chemical. It is a really horrible smell that alerts you that something is really wrong. Your sweat will be so strong of ammonia that you won't be able to tolerate the chemical smell.
Also please explain how obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently.

Showcase_Brodown

This thread again?

There is something legitimate about starvation mode, but it is generally misunderstood. It is usually used as another term for adaptive thermogenesis. When you lose weight, you'd expect your basal metabolism to decrease by a certain amount because of the weight lost. You require fewer calories to maintain less weight. When you are eating way less than you should for a period of days or weeks, your body may start to try to compensate by slowing the basal metabolism by a small amount (maybe 15%) to preserve some energy. This is a slow in the metabolism greater than what would be expected from the weight lost alone. However, that small decrease is most likely not enough to make up for a large deficit, and as long as the calories in are less than calories out, weight will be lost since the energy has to come from somewhere in your body.

I don't have a link, but you could read up on the "Minnesota Study."

sexymuffintop

What people MEAN to say is that once you eat below your BMR long enough, you'll lose most of your lean muscle mass, lowering your metabolism.

Once you try to eat "normal" again, you cannot maintain your weight on the same amount of calories that a person of the same weight and height could. Thus gaining fat due to a damaged metabolism.

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy, so if you don't eat enough calories (your BMR), it will take your skeletal muscles to run itself, and it uses more energy than most people realize.

Extremely obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently than someone who has less than 50lbs to lose.

When your body starts consuming muscle for energy your body odor will change. You will smell like straight ammonia. When your body consumes muscle it will change your breath. Your breath will smell like some type of chemical. It is a really horrible smell that alerts you that something is really wrong. Your sweat will be so strong of ammonia that you won't be able to tolerate the chemical smell.
Also please explain how obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently.

WTF? I have never once in all my life come across anyone dieting or not that has a body odour that smells of ammonia.

ladynocturne

What people MEAN to say is that once you eat below your BMR long enough, you'll lose most of your lean muscle mass, lowering your metabolism.

Once you try to eat "normal" again, you cannot maintain your weight on the same amount of calories that a person of the same weight and height could. Thus gaining fat due to a damaged metabolism.

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy, so if you don't eat enough calories (your BMR), it will take your skeletal muscles to run itself, and it uses more energy than most people realize.

Extremely obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently than someone who has less than 50lbs to lose.

When your body starts consuming muscle for energy your body odor will change. You will smell like straight ammonia. When your body consumes muscle it will change your breath. Your breath will smell like some type of chemical. It is a really horrible smell that alerts you that something is really wrong. Your sweat will be so strong of ammonia that you won't be able to tolerate the chemical smell.
Also please explain how obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently.

Never heard of that.

What Is Ammonia?

The chemical make-up of ammonia is NH3. This means that there is one Nitrogen atom bound to three Hydrogen atoms. Ammonia can be a weak acid or a weak base, depending on what type of chemical it is suspended in. Ammonia has a strong, pungent odor that is easily recognizable in cleaning products, cat urine, and, for some people, sweat!

The key to ammonia in urine and sweat is the nitrogen. The only macronutrient in your body that contains nitrogen is amino acids, the building blocks of protein. In fact, many bodybuilders are always seeking a "positive nitrogen balance" meaning that less nitrogen leaves their body than enters their body. Since nitrogen is in every amino acid, and amino acids are the building blocks of muscle, someone in positive nitrogen balance is more than likely gaining muscle mass.

Your body uses amino acids for energy every day. There is no way to avoid this. Your body constantly goes into catabolic (tissue breakdown) and anabolic (tissue building) phases. When you accumulate mass (lean or fat), your anabolic phases exceed your catabolic phases, but you still experience both phases. When your body uses an amino acid for energy, it must convert the amino acid to a useable form of energy.

It does this by stripping the nitrogen atom off of the molecule. The skeleton molecule that is left behind is then further converted into glucose and used as fuel. In order to get rid of the excess nitrogen, your body typically processes the nitrogen in your kidneys and forms urea, CO(NH2)2 - basically, a carbon dioxide molecule bound to nitrogen and hydrogen. Urea is then excreted in the urine. If your kidneys cannot handle the load of nitrogen, then the nitrogen will be excreted as ammonia in your sweat.

One other factor to consider is water intake. The methods used for getting rid of excess ammonia, such as urine and sweat, all require water as a transport mechanism. If you are not getting adequate fluid, then the solution (ammonia + water) will not be diluted. Therefore, water plays a definite role. If you are not drinking enough fluids to have at least one or two clear urinations every day, you should drink more.

Based on this explanation, it is clear that your sweat will smell like ammonia only if an excessive amount of amino acids are being used for energy, or you are not receiving adequate water. This helps us find a solution to the problem.

Doesn't That Mean My Protein Intake Is Inadequate?

Many people mistakenly believe that ammonia sweat means that their protein intake is not high enough. The body will only utilize protein for energy when it does not have a sufficient supply of fats and carbohydrates. Muscles can use glucose and fat for energy, but your brain requires glucose. Since there is no direct metabolic pathway from fat to glucose, your body will use amino acids instead. If your protein intake is high, there is a chance that the amino acids that supply energy will come from ingested food and not your hard-earned muscle tissue - but why take that chance?

Let's look at an oil lamp. If you fill that lamp with Citronella oil, it will have a distinct odor when you light it. To eliminate that odor, do you add more Citronella? No! That's just fanning the flames. You'd use a different type of oil instead. The same goes for the ammonia smell - this is just the smell of amino acids being "burned" in your body. You don't solve that by adding more amino acids. Instead, you need to supply the fuel that your body prefers - the fuel that can be easily broken down to glucose in order to supply energy to your muscles and your brain - carbohydrates!

The key to avoiding that ammonia smell is to ingest sufficient carbohydrates. If you eat an ample amount of carbohydrate with every meal, then you should have plenty to fuel your exercise activity. Even people who work out on an empty stomach should have some glucose in their bloodstream upon rising - unless they subscribe to the myth that cutting out carbohydrates before bed helps you lose fat. If you find that the ammonia smell persists (even when you consume carbohydrate with every meal), try having a low glycemic carbohydrate before you workout.

and...


You are in all likelihood smelling acetone on your breath which can have a metallic quality or smell just like ammonia like you are describing. Acetone is one of three ketone bodies, and ketones are the byproduct of fat metabolism. They occur in the body when people go on low carbohydrate diets, when people lose weight, when people do lots of aerobic exercise, or any combination of the three. Ketones are common and generally not dangerous unless you have type 1 diabetes, as they generally do not rise to dangerous levels before the body metabolizes them. They are a source of fuel for skeletal muscle as well as the brain and will not interfere with your performance. Make sure you stay well hydrated.

All I could find on how obese people handle VLCDs differently are that the risks out weigh their health problems. In either case, it isn't sustainable for either the obese or the non-obese:

Health benefits

A 1997 study concludes that the short-term use of a VLCD is very effective in rapidly improving glycaemic control and promoting substantial weight loss in obese patients with Type 2 diabetes.[3] Moreover, a VLCD increases insulin sensitivity and reduces the substrate for gluconeogenesis. Thus VLCD treatment may improve glycaemic control more than calorie restriction alone. A VLCD is typically undertaken by an obese patient who wishes to lose a lot of weight quickly, as the risk to health that obesity presents is considered much greater than any risks of the diet itself, so long as it is undertaken with medical supervision

Very low calorie diet (VLCD) is a diet with very or extremely low daily food energy consumption. It is defined as a diet of 800 kilocalories (3,300 kJ) per day or less. VLCDs are formulated, nutritionally complete, liquid meals containing 800 kilocalories or less per day. VLCDs also contain the recommended daily requirements for vitamins, minerals, trace elements, fatty acids and protein. Carbohydrate may be entirely absent, or substituted for a portion of the protein; this choice has important metabolic effects.[1] The VLCD products are usually a powder which is mixed with water or another low-food-energy liquid. The VLCD is prescribed on a case to case basis for rapid weight loss (about 1.5 to 2.5 kilograms or 3 to 5 pounds per week) in patients with Body Mass Index of 30 and above.

I'll keep looking.

Showcase_Brodown

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy

Look up ketones.

ladynocturne

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy

Look up ketones.

Didn't find anything related to the brain with Ketones, but did with Ketone bodies.

"The brain gets a portion of its energy from ketone bodies when glucose is less available (e.g., during fasting, strenuous exercise, low carbohydrate, ketogenic diet and in neonates). In the event of low blood glucose, most other tissues have additional energy sources besides ketone bodies (such as fatty acids), but the brain has an obligatory requirement for some glucose. After the diet has been changed to lower blood glucose for 3 days, the brain gets 25% of its energy from ketone bodies."

Interesting, but still not enough energy to run it.

"When the rate of synthesis of ketone bodies exceeds the rate of utilization, their concentration in blood increases; this is known as ketonemia. This is followed by ketonuria – excretion of ketone bodies in urine. The overall picture of ketonemia and ketonuria is commonly referred as ketosis. Smell of acetone in breath is a common feature in ketosis."

"Individuals who follow a low-carbohydrate diet will also develop ketosis, sometimes called nutritional ketosis, but the level of ketone body concentrations are on the order of 0.5-5 mM whereas the pathological ketoacidosis is 15-25 mM."

"Ketoacidosis is a metabolic state associated with high concentrations of ketone bodies, formed by the breakdown of fatty acids and the deamination of amino acids. The two common ketones produced in humans are acetoacetic acid and β-hydroxybutyrate."

"Ketoacidosis is a pathological metabolic state marked by extreme and uncontrolled ketosis. In ketoacidosis, the body fails to adequately regulate ketone production causing such a severe accumulation of keto acids that the pH of the blood is substantially decreased. In extreme cases ketoacidosis can be fatal."

"Ketoacidosis occurs when the body is producing large quantities of ketone bodies via the metabolism of fatty acids (ketosis) and the body is producing insufficient insulin to slow this production. The excess ketone bodies can significantly acidify the blood. The presence of a high concentration of glucose in the blood (hyperglycemia) caused by the lack of insulin can lead to further acidity. In healthy individuals this normally does not occur because the pancreas produces insulin in response to rising ketone/blood glucose concentration."

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

nlhill79

What people MEAN to say is that once you eat below your BMR long enough, you'll lose most of your lean muscle mass, lowering your metabolism.

Once you try to eat "normal" again, you cannot maintain your weight on the same amount of calories that a person of the same weight and height could. Thus gaining fat due to a damaged metabolism.

Your brain cannot use your fat stores as energy, so if you don't eat enough calories (your BMR), it will take your skeletal muscles to run itself, and it uses more energy than most people realize.

Extremely obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently than someone who has less than 50lbs to lose.

When your body starts consuming muscle for energy your body odor will change. You will smell like straight ammonia. When your body consumes muscle it will change your breath. Your breath will smell like some type of chemical. It is a really horrible smell that alerts you that something is really wrong. Your sweat will be so strong of ammonia that you won't be able to tolerate the chemical smell.
Also please explain how obese people's bodies handle VLC diets differently.

Never heard of that.

What Is Ammonia?

The chemical make-up of ammonia is NH3. This means that there is one Nitrogen atom bound to three Hydrogen atoms. Ammonia can be a weak acid or a weak base, depending on what type of chemical it is suspended in. Ammonia has a strong, pungent odor that is easily recognizable in cleaning products, cat urine, and, for some people, sweat!

The key to ammonia in urine and sweat is the nitrogen. The only macronutrient in your body that contains nitrogen is amino acids, the building blocks of protein. In fact, many bodybuilders are always seeking a "positive nitrogen balance" meaning that less nitrogen leaves their body than enters their body. Since nitrogen is in every amino acid, and amino acids are the building blocks of muscle, someone in positive nitrogen balance is more than likely gaining muscle mass.

Your body uses amino acids for energy every day. There is no way to avoid this. Your body constantly goes into catabolic (tissue breakdown) and anabolic (tissue building) phases. When you accumulate mass (lean or fat), your anabolic phases exceed your catabolic phases, but you still experience both phases. When your body uses an amino acid for energy, it must convert the amino acid to a useable form of energy.

It does this by stripping the nitrogen atom off of the molecule. The skeleton molecule that is left behind is then further converted into glucose and used as fuel. In order to get rid of the excess nitrogen, your body typically processes the nitrogen in your kidneys and forms urea, CO(NH2)2 - basically, a carbon dioxide molecule bound to nitrogen and hydrogen. Urea is then excreted in the urine. If your kidneys cannot handle the load of nitrogen, then the nitrogen will be excreted as ammonia in your sweat.

One other factor to consider is water intake. The methods used for getting rid of excess ammonia, such as urine and sweat, all require water as a transport mechanism. If you are not getting adequate fluid, then the solution (ammonia + water) will not be diluted. Therefore, water plays a definite role. If you are not drinking enough fluids to have at least one or two clear urinations every day, you should drink more.

Based on this explanation, it is clear that your sweat will smell like ammonia only if an excessive amount of amino acids are being used for energy, or you are not receiving adequate water. This helps us find a solution to the problem.

Doesn't That Mean My Protein Intake Is Inadequate?

Many people mistakenly believe that ammonia sweat means that their protein intake is not high enough. The body will only utilize protein for energy when it does not have a sufficient supply of fats and carbohydrates. Muscles can use glucose and fat for energy, but your brain requires glucose. Since there is no direct metabolic pathway from fat to glucose, your body will use amino acids instead. If your protein intake is high, there is a chance that the amino acids that supply energy will come from ingested food and not your hard-earned muscle tissue - but why take that chance?

Let's look at an oil lamp. If you fill that lamp with Citronella oil, it will have a distinct odor when you light it. To eliminate that odor, do you add more Citronella? No! That's just fanning the flames. You'd use a different type of oil instead. The same goes for the ammonia smell - this is just the smell of amino acids being "burned" in your body. You don't solve that by adding more amino acids. Instead, you need to supply the fuel that your body prefers - the fuel that can be easily broken down to glucose in order to supply energy to your muscles and your brain - carbohydrates!

The key to avoiding that ammonia smell is to ingest sufficient carbohydrates. If you eat an ample amount of carbohydrate with every meal, then you should have plenty to fuel your exercise activity. Even people who work out on an empty stomach should have some glucose in their bloodstream upon rising - unless they subscribe to the myth that cutting out carbohydrates before bed helps you lose fat. If you find that the ammonia smell persists (even when you consume carbohydrate with every meal), try having a low glycemic carbohydrate before you workout.

and...


You are in all likelihood smelling acetone on your breath which can have a metallic quality or smell just like ammonia like you are describing. Acetone is one of three ketone bodies, and ketones are the byproduct of fat metabolism. They occur in the body when people go on low carbohydrate diets, when people lose weight, when people do lots of aerobic exercise, or any combination of the three. Ketones are common and generally not dangerous unless you have type 1 diabetes, as they generally do not rise to dangerous levels before the body metabolizes them. They are a source of fuel for skeletal muscle as well as the brain and will not interfere with your performance. Make sure you stay well hydrated.

All I could find on how obese people handle VLCDs differently are that the risks out weigh their health problems. In either case, it isn't sustainable for either the obese or the non-obese:

Health benefits

A 1997 study concludes that the short-term use of a VLCD is very effective in rapidly improving glycaemic control and promoting substantial weight loss in obese patients with Type 2 diabetes.[3] Moreover, a VLCD increases insulin sensitivity and reduces the substrate for gluconeogenesis. Thus VLCD treatment may improve glycaemic control more than calorie restriction alone. A VLCD is typically undertaken by an obese patient who wishes to lose a lot of weight quickly, as the risk to health that obesity presents is considered much greater than any risks of the diet itself, so long as it is undertaken with medical supervision

Very low calorie diet (VLCD) is a diet with very or extremely low daily food energy consumption. It is defined as a diet of 800 kilocalories (3,300 kJ) per day or less. VLCDs are formulated, nutritionally complete, liquid meals containing 800 kilocalories or less per day. VLCDs also contain the recommended daily requirements for vitamins, minerals, trace elements, fatty acids and protein. Carbohydrate may be entirely absent, or substituted for a portion of the protein; this choice has important metabolic effects.[1] The VLCD products are usually a powder which is mixed with water or another low-food-energy liquid. The VLCD is prescribed on a case to case basis for rapid weight loss (about 1.5 to 2.5 kilograms or 3 to 5 pounds per week) in patients with Body Mass Index of 30 and above.

I'll keep looking.

Thank you for this information!!

Showcase_Brodown

Interesting, but still not enough energy to run it.

It's one of those beautiful things about the body. The brain doesn't have to rely on glucose entirely. The use of the ketone bodies can offset that need.

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

Maybe not. Ketosis is kind of the hinge-pin of things like Atkins. I'm no advocate of that diet, but ketosis is probably safe for most people.

ladynocturne

Interesting, but still not enough energy to run it.

It's one of those beautiful things about the body. The brain doesn't have to rely on glucose entirely. The use of the ketone bodies can offset that need.

Doesn't sound like a good idea.

Maybe not. Ketosis is kind of the hinge-pin of things like Atkins. I'm no advocate of that diet, but ketosis is probably safe for most people.

Yeah I agree, I'm always finding out new things about the human body that amaze me. I really need to invest in a good medical book so I have a permanent reference available.

What I don't understand is why anyone would choose to do that to themselves when they could lose weight in a much safer way. Just sounds miserable to me.

myofibril

Weight gain? Perhaps (low calorie dieting is notorious for prompting water retention...)

Fat gain? No.

lukester19

The more you know, the more you realize how much you really don't know. Relax and enjoy the food! Typically a healthy body will tell you how much to consume based on activity level.

devil_in_a_blue_dress

Oh god, really? Is the search button broken today too?

Your post is full of opinions and literally no scientific support.