the real science
pilot2007
Posts: 9 Member
Like most of us, we hear about the latest praise over some diet that is going to make us all lose weight. Adkins, south beach, paleo, and the raw food diet are a few that I have heard of. But what I am asking here, does anyone know the real science behind losing weight. I understand a good amount through my own research but not everything. Do not eat large meals, try to break it up in to smaller meals through the day to maintain your metabolism. Try to stay away from foods with a high glycemic index so your blood sugar does not spike telling your body to store. And maintain a lower calorie intake than what you have burned for the day to lose weight.
Is it that simple? Does the law of thermal dynamics rule our bodies? I do not know, so I turn to all of you in the same situation. Any information on the science would help. It would draw a much clearer picture on how to overcome this hurtle!
Is it that simple? Does the law of thermal dynamics rule our bodies? I do not know, so I turn to all of you in the same situation. Any information on the science would help. It would draw a much clearer picture on how to overcome this hurtle!
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Replies
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The only sentence that applies to actual science of weightloss is eat less calories than you burn. That's it. Size of your meals, how often you eat, what time you eat has little to no effect on weightloss. Stick to a moderate caloric deficit and succeed.
Edited to add, the reason all of these "diets" exist is you can't make money by telling people to eat less than they burn.. so the fitness industry has to devise "plans" to sell to people who want to think fad diets will make it easy..11 -
AlphaCajun wrote: »The only sentence that applies to actual science of weightloss is eat less calories than you burn. That's it. Size of your meals, how often you eat, what time you eat has little to no effect on weightloss.
Fortunately for you you, OP, you've come to the one of the few places online where true science and reason reign - MFP . The above advice is the only one you will ever get here (well mostly)
And it is the correct one.
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Like most of us, we hear about the latest praise over some diet that is going to make us all lose weight. Adkins, south beach, paleo, and the raw food diet are a few that I have heard of. But what I am asking here, does anyone know the real science behind losing weight.
Yes. A lot of people do. The basics got figured out a while ago. Problem is, there are a lot of people in the world who are very clever. Some of them figured out that they can make a living by telling you what your dietician doesn't want you to know and your doctor will hate this site, send money now.
You eat food. It has calories in it. You go about your day, burning calories. If you take in more calories than you put out, you gain weight; if the numbers are the same, you stay the same weight; if you eat fewer calories than you burn, you lose weight. That's all there is to it.
There's some legitimate question over what's the best way to do that. Fibrous vegetables, protein, and fat, tend to be the things that make you feel full. I mean, you could wake up in the morning and eat spoonfuls of sugar until you hit your calorie allotment for the day, eat no more, and lose weight. You'd be starving but it would shrink your tummy, but most people wouldn't stick to a diet like that because constant starving is just too much. The challenge with losing weight isn't science, it's will power, and finding ways that make it easier for you as an individual.2 -
Tweak calories for weight management. Tweak diet for calorie management and optimal health.
All the fluff is created to earn money from desperate, impatient, lazy and/or ignorant people, because there's a lot of money there.3 -
Like most of us, we hear about the latest praise over some diet that is going to make us all lose weight. Adkins, south beach, paleo, and the raw food diet are a few that I have heard of. But what I am asking here, does anyone know the real science behind losing weight. I understand a good amount through my own research but not everything. Do not eat large meals, try to break it up in to smaller meals through the day to maintain your metabolism. Try to stay away from foods with a high glycemic index so your blood sugar does not spike telling your body to store. And maintain a lower calorie intake than what you have burned for the day to lose weight.
Is it that simple? Does the law of thermal dynamics rule our bodies? I do not know, so I turn to all of you in the same situation. Any information on the science would help. It would draw a much clearer picture on how to overcome this hurtle!
Calories in vs. Calories out.1 -
CICO. Use a calorie deficit to lose weight. It can be created either by counting or by numerous diets.
Protein and fat are often very satiating. Focus on those over carbs and see if it helps.
Make sure you get sufficient fiber and micronutrients from whole foods.
Avoid partially hydrogenated oils and too much processed meats.
Cardio for health and extra calories, strength training for body composition.0 -
AlphaCajun wrote: »The only sentence that applies to actual science of weightloss is eat less calories than you burn. That's it. Size of your meals, how often you eat, what time you eat has little to no effect on weightloss. Stick to a moderate caloric deficit and succeed.
Edited to add, the reason all of these "diets" exist is you can't make money by telling people to eat less than they burn.. so the fitness industry has to devise "plans" to sell to people who want to think fad diets will make it easy..
All of this!!0 -
I appreciate everyone's response. Its shocking sometimes to think how simple the concept is of losing weight. The real struggle is with our basic human needs and drives for survival. Well here is to day 1, and tank you all again.4
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I appreciate everyone's response. Its shocking sometimes to think how simple the concept is of losing weight. The real struggle is with our basic human needs and drives for survival. Well here is to day 1, and tank you all again.
I think so too. Resisting temptation in this world of plenty is hard enough, we don't need all that confusion on top of it. But, confusion is money.3 -
I appreciate everyone's response. Its shocking sometimes to think how simple the concept is of losing weight.
I saw something on TV once, one character says "you just need to exercise more and eat less," the other character said "darling, if it was that simple, everyone would be doing it."2 -
It is calories in and calories out but please remember some foods are more nutritious than others. 150 calories worth of twinkie is 150 calories worth of broccoli but one will take you further than the other and with more nutrients.1
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emmydoodles83 wrote: »It is calories in and calories out but please remember some foods are more nutritious than others. 150 calories worth of twinkie is 150 calories worth of broccoli but one will take you further than the other and with more nutrients.
Nutrition vs. weight loss. If it's just about weight loss, it doesn't matter. Obviously with nutrition it matters a lot.0 -
It's not truly calories in calories out. People's metabolisms differ. Processed foods are easier to chew digest, so you get more calories out of them. There are all sorts of other variables such as time of day, sleep patterns, etc. You may require more of a calorie deficit than someone else of the same sex, height and weight.
That said, calorie counting generally works. Most diets are just complicated ways to cut calories by limiting your food choices.1 -
Espressocycle wrote: »It's not truly calories in calories out. People's metabolisms differ. Processed foods are easier to chew digest, so you get more calories out of them. There are all sorts of other variables such as time of day, sleep patterns, etc. You may require more of a calorie deficit than someone else of the same sex, height and weight.
There is a lot in this paragraph that is scientifically false.
Unless there is a serious health issue, metabolisms are not that different.
If I eat 100 calories of processed food or 100 calories of celery, I'm getting 100 calories into my body. The type of food does not matter.
Time of day food is consumed does not matter.
Sleep does impact cortisol levels and that can impact weight loss, so a gold star to you for that.
It takes 3500 extra calories to gain a pound. It takes a deficit of 3500 calories to lose a pound. That does not vary from person to person. Yes, people at different weights and heights and activity levels have a different baseline.
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The science of "will power" has proven that it is a diminishing resource. You can use it, but you will lose it if you do use it, so the trick of successful weight loss is to slowly adjust your habits so that week-by-week you ease into new habits which you quickly become comfortable with. Once you are comfortable, body and mind, with consuming hundreds of calories less than before, the weight falls off without 'acts of will' or such that you can't sustain.2
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »The science of "will power" has proven that it is a diminishing resource. You can use it, but you will lose it if you do use it, so the trick of successful weight loss is to slowly adjust your habits so that week-by-week you ease into new habits which you quickly become comfortable with. Once you are comfortable, body and mind, with consuming hundreds of calories less than before, the weight falls off without 'acts of will' or such that you can't sustain.
The concept of ego depletion has actually come under quite serious scrutiny lately, to the point that some people in the psych field are considering it disproven.
I'm quite interested in it conceptually since willpower plays a huge role in dieting/etc.0 -
MissusMoon wrote: »Espressocycle wrote: »It's not truly calories in calories out. People's metabolisms differ. Processed foods are easier to chew digest, so you get more calories out of them. There are all sorts of other variables such as time of day, sleep patterns, etc. You may require more of a calorie deficit than someone else of the same sex, height and weight.
There is a lot in this paragraph that is scientifically false.
Unless there is a serious health issue, metabolisms are not that different.
If I eat 100 calories of processed food or 100 calories of celery, I'm getting 100 calories into my body. The type of food does not matter.
Time of day food is consumed does not matter.
Sleep does impact cortisol levels and that can impact weight loss, so a gold star to you for that.
It takes 3500 extra calories to gain a pound. It takes a deficit of 3500 calories to lose a pound. That does not vary from person to person. Yes, people at different weights and heights and activity levels have a different baseline.
The type of food can matter. Example 1: The thermic effect of food. Some foods burn slightly more calories to digest than others do (e.g., protein has a higher TEF than carbs or fat). That can affect the "CO" side of CICO. Not saying it's enough to really matter, but it's there.
Example 2: We digest fewer calories from almonds than previously thought (~20% fewer).
An interesting post on the topic of calories:
http://blogs.scientificamerican.com/guest-blog/the-hidden-truths-about-calories/
That said, from a practical perspective, worrying about this probably unnecessarily complicates things. Eat food, evaluate results, adjust.1 -
The type of food matters to me, only in that I find it much easier to get through the day in comfort if I get my calories in the form of high-fiber foods with low calorie density. If I'm not comfortable enough, it's harder to stick to it. Most of the useful information you can get about tweaking this or that has to do with comfort, which relates to the necessary willpower to keep it up. There are a million different ways to hack your own brain for this purpose, some of which you'll have to find by experimentation. I always like reading about what other people have found to work.
But what's been the most important thing for me is this: my calorie budget is iron-clad. If something makes my budget harder to meet, I change whatever that something is, but I don't change my daily accomplishment of staying within budget. That's non-negotiable. Over time, I've found approaches that keep me happy with the daily accomplishment, so I start every day knowing it's not only possible but inevitable.0 -
I appreciate everyone's response. Its shocking sometimes to think how simple the concept is of losing weight. The real struggle is with our basic human needs and drives for survival. Well here is to day 1, and tank you all again.
Right. Pretty much every other piece of advice you get (beyond things that aren't just complete bunk, like not eating carbs and fat at the same meal or the Beverly Hills Diet -- although even fad diets are just super low cal diets with made-up rationales) is simply a strategy that some people find helps them eat less than they burn.
That's why LCHF and paleo work for some, why eating lots of little meals works for some and intermittent fasting works for others, why some think eating breakfast is important and others find skipping it a good strategy, why some do better eating dinner late (me) and others do well with a hard cut-off after which they will not eat. It's all about you and what you find helps you keep a deficit. For me not snacking and eating on a (mostly) regular schedule helps. Some things probably make it easier for many people (eating more satiating foods, eating enough protein, understanding what you are eating, getting enough sleep). But it's all stuff we need to figure out for ourselves and anyone who claims that any of these rules is necessary or helpful for everyone is, basically, lying.0 -
Just like anything else, some thrive on others ignorance. When I was younger, I thought if your were very active, you could eat like crap. It's not until I started with a trainer that I truly understood the process. It's not rocket science, but there is a lot of bad information on the internet.0
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I am a former Diamond Leader / Weight Watchers Corporate Accounts Leader. About 10 years ago I lost 83 pounds at Weight Watchers. I ate from ALL your basic food groups. That being said, you still need to watch your calories and watch your portions. If you eat less than your body needs you will lose weight. Just try and make healthier choices as much as you can. I have tried all kinds of diets. I think the best diet is one that you can stick with over a period of time and own as a lifestyle change.0
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Calories in vs. Calories out is all that counts -- is the standard message that gets thrown at everyone and it's not true. It tells you that you that it's your fault and you lack self control. It's much more complicated. Why is it that some people stay slim and never count calories?
It's like saying a forest fire makes the trees go away cause they burn. Thats' only the secondary reason - you have to ask what caused the fire[or what caused the eating]
What about dry weather, lack of rain, lightning, a camper leaving a fire burning, etc.?
How about emotional states, food cravings, lack of nutrition knowledge, "science" that changes the rules every couple of years - don't eat eggs, only eat 3 eggs a week, only eat egg whites, eat as many eggs as you want.
I eat low carb keto, high fats, lots of cheese and eggs, minimal sugar. I have treats that satiate me - without triggering cravings e.g 72% chocolate is ok, milk chocolate cannot be within walking distance. That's what works for me. My blood levels are normal even though I still have 40 lbs to lose and I don't need any medications.
You have to do your own research and testing to find what works for you.
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CICO for weight loss...macros for health and nutrition and body comp.
All these people touting TEF and the whys are of no recourse when it comes to weight loss.
It is as simple as eating less food than the body requires for it's activity.
The food you use for those CI is a personal choice. You can eat McDonalds everyday and lose weight as long as you keep your calories in lower than required....there was a teacher who did this experiment and lost weight, lowered his blood pressure and his blood labs were better.
The reason for eating is a personal thing as well but that doesn't negate the science behind CICO...
Meal timing, TEF, LCHF, Keto etc are all irrelevant....
The important thing to understand is the science behind the weight loss..and if you are ready to lose the weigh it does all click...really it does...and I am speaking from personal experience and watching others.0 -
Why is TEF irrelevant?0
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Why is TEF irrelevant?
Based on anything I have read the TEF for CICO equation is.
It is relevant for satiety and the feeling of fullness which I guess can lead to a secondary relationship to weight loss but I haven't seen anything that conclusive to state TEF is that important.
*very willing to learn something new however.0 -
All awesome advice. But from a different perspective. It is NOT always CICO. For some of us with Thyroid disease, Lupus and other autoimmune conditions, or even just fad dieters that have lowered their metabolism. It does matter. It is important to eat smaller meals, to watch what foods we put into our bodies. I can eat at 1200-1400 a day and if i am active, more, and not lose a lb. Just cutting calories, or burning more than I eat does not work...for me and many others. But limiting carbs to under 100g for me, and upping good fat intake, keeping blood sugar steady works. Not all of us its as simple as math. It also depends on your metabolism. If you have tried fad diets and severely low calories. Have you damaged your metabolism? Many, many factors besides just CICO. I can eat 1200 cal a day of ALL junk, and put on 10 lbs vs 1200 of good healthy, non processed food and it will do the opposite.
I understand for many, it CAN be the simple math. But not for everyone. You need to find your sweet spot. For example My macros are 30% carbs (good healthy complex carbs), 40% Fat (good fat, omega 3s) and 30% Protein. This is my sweet spot. Once I upped my Good fats, My high cholesterol went down, I feel full and I have much better metal clarity and weight id pouring off! This is my spot. Every one is different. If I eat more carbs than this, NO matter what my calorie intake is, I get puffy, put on several lbs of water weight, and my intestines are sluggish. Even at a perfect 1200 cal a day. It does not matter that 1200 a day when I burn 2400 a day on average. I am not losing 2 lbs a week. Period. If I eat 1800 a day and watch my macros, I am Losing 2 lbs a week.
So its is not a one size fits all. Ive been a nurse along time, and teach Nutrition and diabetes education. I would bet money if more people threw out the calorie number and focused on macros in a way that works for them, then people would feel better, learn sustaining methods of keeping weight off and boost weight loss!
Sorry for the story Every one has approached this different for them and some have been successful Just doing CICO. But if that was truly the cure all for everyone, we wouldn't have SO many posters who walk the walk and talk the talk, not losing weight..... 2 -
Espressocycle wrote: »It's not truly calories in calories out. People's metabolisms differ. Processed foods are easier to chew digest, so you get more calories out of them. There are all sorts of other variables such as time of day, sleep patterns, etc. You may require more of a calorie deficit than someone else of the same sex, height and weight.
That said, calorie counting generally works. Most diets are just complicated ways to cut calories by limiting your food choices.
This. It does matter. Sleep loss raises Cortisol. Cortisol is a stress response, people that have adrenal fatigue or chronic stress have a WAY less chance of losing weight, even if CICO is on par. Metabolisms vary greatly! Different fad diets put an extreme amount of stress on the body, lack of sleep, poor food choices, genetics, childbirth, excersising too much etc etc etc All effect metabolism.0 -
Great article, worth the read! http://www.precisionnutrition.com/metabolic-damage0
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