how many calories do you deficit for cut with minimal muscle loss.

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degenerationwhy
degenerationwhy Posts: 31 Member
edited May 2016 in Fitness and Exercise
In a cut maintaining a 300-500 calorie deficit a day before factoring in calories burned through weight training and cardio 5-6 times a week each. Just wondering what other peoples strategies are for minimal muscle loss.

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  • jessef593
    jessef593 Posts: 2,272 Member
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    High protein, with occasional carb refeed days of maintenance or slight surpluses. You seem to have it somewhat figured out though. Make sure to really focus on maintaining your strength though. I also consume BCAAs while I'm cutting. Just for that extra help with retaining muscle mass.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.
  • ekat120
    ekat120 Posts: 407 Member
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    sijomial wrote: »
    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.

    How do you structure the maintenance and deficit days around your different workouts? I'm thinking of doing something like this for marathon training (with weights twice a week).
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    ekat120 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.

    How do you structure the maintenance and deficit days around your different workouts? I'm thinking of doing something like this for marathon training (with weights twice a week).
    @ekat120
    I use the MFP "eat back exercise calories" method to my total calorie allowance changes daily in line with my workouts. Works much better than a fixed average TDEE method when you do endurance cardio and have some large and very variable burns.

    On cardio/cycling days I find it very easy to create a large deficit as I have a high volume of food anyway, cardio isn't a big hunger trigger for me. Find it harder on weight training days to create much of a deficit with a far smaller exercise calorie addition.

    So I just leave my calorie allowance on my maintenance goal and take a deficit from that partly on "feel", partly on fitting in social events and life in general. Quite a relaxed regime really, anything under maintenance is progress and I don't feel compelled to stick to a low calorie goal or feel overly restricted.
  • ryry_
    ryry_ Posts: 4,966 Member
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    sijomial wrote: »
    ekat120 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.

    How do you structure the maintenance and deficit days around your different workouts? I'm thinking of doing something like this for marathon training (with weights twice a week).
    @ekat120
    I use the MFP "eat back exercise calories" method to my total calorie allowance changes daily in line with my workouts. Works much better than a fixed average TDEE method when you do endurance cardio and have some large and very variable burns.

    On cardio/cycling days I find it very easy to create a large deficit as I have a high volume of food anyway, cardio isn't a big hunger trigger for me. Find it harder on weight training days to create much of a deficit with a far smaller exercise calorie addition.

    So I just leave my calorie allowance on my maintenance goal and take a deficit from that partly on "feel", partly on fitting in social events and life in general. Quite a relaxed regime really, anything under maintenance is progress and I don't feel compelled to stick to a low calorie goal or feel overly restricted.

    I literally just switched to trying this this morning. Seems like its working well for you. Just seems mentally healthier to say okay I created a 2000 deficit this week rather than I went 1500 over my calorie goal.

    Curious how you calculate how many calories extra are burned? Do you just take MFP's gross for exercise or do you modify it at all?

  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    ryry62685 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    ekat120 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.

    How do you structure the maintenance and deficit days around your different workouts? I'm thinking of doing something like this for marathon training (with weights twice a week).
    @ekat120
    I use the MFP "eat back exercise calories" method to my total calorie allowance changes daily in line with my workouts. Works much better than a fixed average TDEE method when you do endurance cardio and have some large and very variable burns.

    On cardio/cycling days I find it very easy to create a large deficit as I have a high volume of food anyway, cardio isn't a big hunger trigger for me. Find it harder on weight training days to create much of a deficit with a far smaller exercise calorie addition.

    So I just leave my calorie allowance on my maintenance goal and take a deficit from that partly on "feel", partly on fitting in social events and life in general. Quite a relaxed regime really, anything under maintenance is progress and I don't feel compelled to stick to a low calorie goal or feel overly restricted.

    I literally just switched to trying this this morning. Seems like its working well for you. Just seems mentally healthier to say okay I created a 2000 deficit this week rather than I went 1500 over my calorie goal.

    Curious how you calculate how many calories extra are burned? Do you just take MFP's gross for exercise or do you modify it at all?
    @ryry62685
    Estimate my calories burned in various ways:
    Strength training: impossible to measure and very low burn anyway. I just use the MFP numbers.

    Walking: I just use a phone app (Runkeeper). It over-estimates but is very convenient.

    Gym cardio: mostly use the figures from my Polar FT60 HRM (it's been custom been calibrated with my tested max HR and VO2 max). (Used a Polar FT7 a few years ago and it read high by about 10 - 20%)
    I find Concept2 rowers and ARC trainer (elliptical) give very accurate numbers as well, eSpinning bike appears about 10% high.

    Indoor cycle trainer: I use a power meter equipped bike, virtually identical numbers to my HRM until I get very hot then the HRM massively over-estimates, I use the power meter numbers for calories.

    Outdoor cycling: Garmin Edge HRM/GPS unit or Strava phone app. Both under-estimate, Garmin is dreadfully under for low intensity rides but closer for mid to high intensity.

    General activity: such as long/strenuous gardening, I just make a random guess if I can be bothered.

    As you can see accuracy really isn't that crucial. Average burn in winter about 3500 a week and far more in summer but much more variable as I cycle long distances.
  • ekat120
    ekat120 Posts: 407 Member
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    sijomial wrote: »
    ekat120 wrote: »
    sijomial wrote: »
    I cut at roughly 1lb/week average, keep my protein at about 1g / 1lb of LBM, normal training pattern is cardio (mostly cycling or cycle related, between one to several hours) and weights on alternate days. I'm very focussed on cycling at this time of year and prioritise that over weights.

    I eat in a mixture of maintenance days and deficit days, mostly as everyday deficit bores me but it also supports my training energy levels and recovery better. Before a big event (Century ride) I will taper off training and eat at maintenance for almost a week.

    Down 9lbs in last 10 weeks - lost 2" off my waist, maintained quad, chest and arm measurements virtually unchanged despite neglecting my weight training a little. Legs and arms in particular are far leaner.

    How do you structure the maintenance and deficit days around your different workouts? I'm thinking of doing something like this for marathon training (with weights twice a week).
    @ekat120
    I use the MFP "eat back exercise calories" method to my total calorie allowance changes daily in line with my workouts. Works much better than a fixed average TDEE method when you do endurance cardio and have some large and very variable burns.

    On cardio/cycling days I find it very easy to create a large deficit as I have a high volume of food anyway, cardio isn't a big hunger trigger for me. Find it harder on weight training days to create much of a deficit with a far smaller exercise calorie addition.

    So I just leave my calorie allowance on my maintenance goal and take a deficit from that partly on "feel", partly on fitting in social events and life in general. Quite a relaxed regime really, anything under maintenance is progress and I don't feel compelled to stick to a low calorie goal or feel overly restricted.

    Don't know why I didn't see this before...But thanks. I've been thinking about doing something similar, because the daily deficit wears on me. Seems like it would be better to just eat up to maintenance, but not force myself to get there and take the deficit on days my body's agreeable to it. Good to know it's working for you and jives with a high-cardio routine.

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