Horrible last long run - Marathon in 3 weeks

Somebody_Loved

Hi everyone,

I'm running my first marathon on June 18th and have been following the Hal Higdon plan. This past weekend was my last long run before tapering and was supposed to be 20 miles. I didn't finish - I made it 18 miles and felt I couldn't go any longer. I developed a blood blister, my knee was swelling, and my legs felt exhausted.

I know that physically running 18 instead of 20 doesn't make a huge difference, but the impact to my mental game has been rough and my confidence has been shaken.

This weekend I'm scheduled to run 12 miles... My question is if I should add more miles to have one successful last long run, or just follow the original plan?

Thanks!

BrikcRunner

I'd suggest following the original plan and doing 12, assuming your fully recovered of course. Like you said, there isn't much difference between 18 and 20 and if you've been following the HH training plan up to this point, you'll be just fine for the marathon. Good luck!

Somebody_Loved

@BrikcRunner - You're right, it has been a good plan, and I do trust it. Just lost my mojo there for a minute. Thanks for the feedback!

lporter229

Stick with the plan. You will not be recovered enough from a 20 mile run and that 26.2 will be that much harder. That's why we taper. You will get lots of energy and adrenaline from the crowd support and the race environment. Just make sure not to go out too fast and you will be fine. Best of luck!!

Somebody_Loved

lporter229 wrote: »

Stick with the plan. You will not be recovered enough from a 20 mile run and that 26.2 will be that much harder. That's why we taper. You will get lots of energy and adrenaline from the crowd support and the race environment. Just make sure not to go out too fast and you will be fine. Best of luck!!

That makes sense, I'll stick to the original plan. Thanks so much for the feedback!

_Waffle_

Somebody_Loved wrote: »

This weekend I'm scheduled to run 12 miles... My question is if I should add more miles to have one successful last long run, or just follow the original plan?

Thanks!

Ah ha! Wait till your next long run is 8 miles and the week before when you just have a few runs that feel like nothing more than a warm up. Taper mania! Not to mention those phantom injuries that seem to crop up when you taper. Those are the worst.

Relax. You'll be just fine. Trust the plan and stick with it. Best of luck.

Somebody_Loved

_Waffle_ wrote: »

Ah ha! Wait till your next long run is 8 miles and the week before when you just have a few runs that feel like nothing more than a warm up. Taper mania! Not to mention those phantom injuries that seem to crop up when you taper. Those are the worst.

Relax. You'll be just fine. Trust the plan and stick with it. Best of luck.

I've heard of that happening! I already feel myself going a little nuts. Every time I feel something "off" I freak out that I'm getting an injury and won't be able to run the marathon. Mind games. I'm trying to relax as best I can - thanks so much!

heybales

Didn't catch if anything was learned from the failed 20 miles though. Perhaps this was already thought of.

Are socks best if blisters gotten?
I'll get calluses, but rarely blisters unless something is just wrong.

Was it because pace was too fast for energy source available?
Which if it allowed only 18 to be possible, 26 is going to be ugly.

Was it because you weren't recovered from prior run that was scheduled properly?
Are you in a diet that is impairing recovery - perhaps too big a diet for schedule given?
For sure come out of diet the days leading up to marathon - not the time to be glucose depleted in muscles which would be the normal case in diet.

Was pace done requiring mid-race fueling and that didn't happen as planned, or it was done but not the desired effects?
Pace still may be too fast, either to digest the carbs for use, and/or not enough processed for use at pace gone.

Bad night sleep day or two before?
Might have to think of what can assist with that before race, though night before never seems great.

Just throwing some other things out there since this is your first marathon and perhaps not coming to mind.

Only thing I'd suggest to modify plan if the mental game disturbs you, is estimate your total race time with realistic pace. Now how long is that 12 mile run supposed to take likely?
Add the extra time as walking before and after, and maybe in the middle of that long run, equal times. That way at least you'll have the foot time you plan on having, but not nearly the stress of running the whole time. Plus allow testing out that feeding if making changes, or socks, ect.

DrifterBear

Stick to the plan! Regardless, you've put in the work, it's time to have fun. The extra long run may do more harm than good, follow the taper and trust in your training. You may have had a hard time because your body needs the taper, so enjoy it and the payoff of all your hard work.

DrifterBear

By the way, pace yourself at the start of the race. Adrenaline causes a lot of people to go out too strong. Don't worry about your time, enjoy the event. If you came in a little slow, you'd have that much more opportunity to improve your PR.

rsclause

Just curious because I have only run a half and don't really have trouble with that distance or the long runs prior to it. When doing a 20 mile long run do you carry water or stop at a fountain?

Somebody_Loved

heybales wrote: »

Didn't catch if anything was learned from the failed 20 miles though. Perhaps this was already thought of.

Are socks best if blisters gotten?
I'll get calluses, but rarely blisters unless something is just wrong.

Was it because pace was too fast for energy source available?
Which if it allowed only 18 to be possible, 26 is going to be ugly.

Was it because you weren't recovered from prior run that was scheduled properly?
Are you in a diet that is impairing recovery - perhaps too big a diet for schedule given?
For sure come out of diet the days leading up to marathon - not the time to be glucose depleted in muscles which would be the normal case in diet.

Was pace done requiring mid-race fueling and that didn't happen as planned, or it was done but not the desired effects?
Pace still may be too fast, either to digest the carbs for use, and/or not enough processed for use at pace gone.

Bad night sleep day or two before?
Might have to think of what can assist with that before race, though night before never seems great.

Just throwing some other things out there since this is your first marathon and perhaps not coming to mind.

Only thing I'd suggest to modify plan if the mental game disturbs you, is estimate your total race time with realistic pace. Now how long is that 12 mile run supposed to take likely?
Add the extra time as walking before and after, and maybe in the middle of that long run, equal times. That way at least you'll have the foot time you plan on having, but not nearly the stress of running the whole time. Plus allow testing out that feeding if making changes, or socks, ect.

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply.

I am definitely able to contribute a few things to the poor run. I had a poor night's sleep several nights leading up to the run, so I was already tired going into it.

As far as the blisters - my pinky toes curl under the next toe so I essentially run on them the whole time, creating pinch blisters. I use band aids and toe separators to try and prevent this from happening, but for some reason the separators came loose during the run, resulting in the blister.

I feel like my pace is realistic and was manageable in my previous long runs of 18 and 19 miles but I think I could definitely improve my mid-run fueling. Thanks for the feedback, a lot of good things to consider!

Somebody_Loved

rsclause wrote: »

Just curious because I have only run a half and don't really have trouble with that distance or the long runs prior to it. When doing a 20 mile long run do you carry water or stop at a fountain?

I carry a hydration pack for runs longer than 13 miles.

Somebody_Loved

DrifterBear wrote: »

By the way, pace yourself at the start of the race. Adrenaline causes a lot of people to go out too strong. Don't worry about your time, enjoy the event. If you came in a little slow, you'd have that much more opportunity to improve your PR.

I've done 3 HMs going into this race so I've learned pretty well to pace myself (learned that lesson my first HM - could barely make the last 2 miles). The race is offering pacers and I'm contemplating joining a pace group but haven't decided on that yet. I'm trying my best not to set a time goal because really, I just want to finish, but it's hard not to have a goal in mind!

ETA: I know pacing for a marathon is different than a HM, I meant more specifically that I've learned not to go out to quickly.

mavsfan2009

Just as a piece of encouragement - my 20 mile training run was a MILLION times worse than the 26.2. The adrenaline of race day, the fans along the course, knowing you've worked your butt off in your training runs - all of that counts so much more in the actual run.

That said, I would definitely try to get the blister situation taken care of - if your separators fall off, stop and fix them. If certain parts of your body start to hurt, stop and stretch. Drink water and electrolytes. Take care of your body throughout the run.... because after all, FINISHING the race is what's important. If you don't hit your anticipated time, but finish you've done something most humans haven't done. Good luck!

rsclause

So true on race day pace. On my most recent half it was very cold at the start but was going to warm during the race so I dressed for the later temp.. The start line was outside and the school building was locked up. I couldn't feel my feet and was really cold. When I got to mile 1 and my phone called out my pace I freaked, I was running way too fast.

lporter229

My apologies if this advice sounds like beating a dead horse to you, but I think it's critical, so just wanting to make sure you are informed on pacing and fueling. If you are planning on going out with a pace group, I would suggest at least 1 minute/mile slower than your half marathon pace. The number one reason for a miserable marathon is going out too fast. Remember that they key to a successful marathon is having sufficient fuel to get you through to the end. You have to preserve those glycogen stores, as this will be the main difference between the full and the half. Plan on fueling at least every 45 minutes along the way. If you wait until you feel like you need it, it's probably too late.

Somebody_Loved

mavsfan2009 wrote: »

Just as a piece of encouragement - my 20 mile training run was a MILLION times worse than the 26.2. The adrenaline of race day, the fans along the course, knowing you've worked your butt off in your training runs - all of that counts so much more in the actual run.

That said, I would definitely try to get the blister situation taken care of - if your separators fall off, stop and fix them. If certain parts of your body start to hurt, stop and stretch. Drink water and electrolytes. Take care of your body throughout the run.... because after all, FINISHING the race is what's important. If you don't hit your anticipated time, but finish you've done something most humans haven't done. Good luck!

That's super encouraging to hear! I'm trying my best to get the blister situation under control and will definitely stop during the marathon if need be. Thank you!

lporter229 wrote: »

My apologies if this advice sounds like beating a dead horse to you, but I think it's critical, so just wanting to make sure you are informed on pacing and fueling. If you are planning on going out with a pace group, I would suggest at least 1 minute/mile slower than your half marathon pace. The number one reason for a miserable marathon is going out too fast. Remember that they key to a successful marathon is having sufficient fuel to get you through to the end. You have to preserve those glycogen stores, as this will be the main difference between the full and the half. Plan on fueling at least every 45 minutes along the way. If you wait until you feel like you need it, it's probably too late.

Not at all - thank you for the advice! I haven't decided on the pace group yet or not. My HM pace is 9:25 and my pace goal for the marathon is 10:07. Up until my 20 mile attempt, the 10:07 pace has been manageable during my 17-19 mile long runs (and I think the 20 mile fail was more about blisters/pain than pace).

I get what you're saying, though, and it's so tough as a first timer to get it right. I still haven't nailed the fueling down and am kind of out of chances to do so. I've been using honey stingers every hour which has seemed ok, but I could switch it to every 45 minutes. My stomach tends to bother me once I start fueling, so I go through the packages really slowly.

ETA: The 10:07 pacing group is closest to what I run during my long training runs which is why I'm debating running with them. My overall goal is to finish, but I'd be elated to finish in under 4:30 (which is about a 10:18/mile).

heybales

You might follow the recommendation on the package - usually they are basing their req on the studied avg amount of carb absorb you can get while exercising at a certain level and what their product contains - don't recall what that VO2% is, but it's decent effort.

But not everyone is average, some really lack blood flow to stomach, and get nothing from fueling during the race unless just going so slow it's not worth it, so food/gels sit in stomach and causes problems until you stop, then it's too late to do any good.
Those folks have to rely on proper pace to make muscle glucose stores just last the whole time.
Sometimes just the energy drink can be handled better, since usually the right ratio to encourage absorption - unless they mix it wrong - which is not unheard of with volunteers at aid stations that don't know.

I'd say if stomach already feels iffy, don't eat more. Perhaps less, but drink the gatoraide.

And you can still test on that 12 mile run - it's just not required then, but still useful to do it. Testing the drink may require bringing some with you. 16 oz in an hour, starting at 45 min, should do it.
That's actually not enough, properly mixed, I'll do 32 oz/hr on long bike rides. But that would still test it out.

I think that pacing group sounds great, later if things are feeling good, you go out faster.

Somebody_Loved

@heybales - That's a good idea. All I've tried thus far is gels + water and honey stingers + water. My stomach does better with the honey stingers but still not great. I have some Nuun at home I could try out during my 12 mile this Saturday and see how I do. Thanks!

heybales

I did my last chews for running 2 years ago. Marathon end of Nov, Gobbler Grind - started out 5 F, maybe got up to 15 F.
Not only was water at aid stations frozen where they had put it out early, some volunteers didn't show up either.
And when they were there shaking and shivering, breaking through ice to get some flow - you got maybe 2-3 oz of water after long line.
The few chews I'd taken prior to arriving at aid station I new coming up, sat in stomach since so cold little blood flow there, besides the water problem.
Held on way too long with digestion issue before finally stopping to .... huh .... take care of it. Once that was done, the prior pace for so long had been so much slower than normal/desired, I really picked it up and finished about where I'd planned anyway. But I still use the Clif Bloks on the bike since I have my own water, and last tri I tried jelly beans on run since carrying my own water. Those didn't work well since different mix of sugars than best.