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Debate on sugar that seems to support weight loss side effect and more?

GaleHawkins
GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
edited June 2016 in Debate Club
webmd.com/vitamins-supplements/ingredientmono-827-ribose.aspx?activeingredientid=827&activeingredientname=ribose
Short summary from WebMD.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17109576
The use of D-ribose in chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia: a pilot study.

drmyhill.co.uk/wiki/d-ribose
A UK doctor thoughts and one reason I eat up to 30-60 grams daily out of my hand.

storefronts.supplysideshow.com/~/media/Files/Storefronts/supplyside/resources/179877/480-Scientific%20Rationale%20for%20the%20Nutritional%20Use%20of%20D-Ribose%20to%20Support%20Skeletal%20Muscle%20Health%20and%20Function.pdf
May be interesting to biology geeks.

care2.com/greenliving/lose-weight-with-sugar.html
Keep in mind this is not one the six carbon kind of sugars we typically eat today. The only study that I have seen that supports this angle was with mice or rats but it was interesting to me.

smart-publications.com/articles/d-ribose-is-awesome-interview-with-dr-jacob-teitelbaum
D-Ribose is Awesome! - Interview with Dr. Jacob Teitelbaum. This is a name you will see if you research under any of these names: Ribose, Beta-D-ribofuranose, D-ribosa, D-ribose, Ribosa that D-Ribose is called in the literature.

lifeextension.com/magazine/2008/5/d-ribose-energize-your-heart-save-your-life/page-01
This research has 50 references at end and comes from a seller of supplement.

The validity of the above info is not been reviewed by myself and is just a random sample of about 50 links I have read and countless personal reviews after starting to eat this 5 carbon sugar.

While this is a processed carb it is sugar that the body makes and is contained in all of our cells if we are living.

The max daily taken in organized research that I read was 60 grams a day. I am eating from my hand 30-60 grams daily because I love the taste of sugar but after 20 months I am still off the six carbon sugars that can make up much of the calories in a SAD.

If someone personal experience of any kind with D-Ribose or have studied the subject I would be interested in hearing them. Others feel free to post as well.

After the past few weeks when I started to experimenting taking D-Ribose I have lost 4 pounds but that may have been more due to the air condition being broken as temps are starting to rise.

Actually I have lost my interest/taste in eating high fat and just have been less hungry in general since I have been using D-Ribose but working out in the heat seems to cause that effect all of my life and was when I would lose my winter fate. Even with 60 grams of D-Ribose daily added to my normal carbs I still am staying in nutritional ketosis most all of the time.

Note it can drop one's glucose level for a few hours so if low glucose levels is your problem you need to be aware. It seems to be due to a huge Insulin spike yet does not become glucose from what I could read. This is a totally new area of my personal research on how to eat for max health benefits.

I am trying it for muscle fatigue plus for the heart should I have a heart attack to lessen heart muscle cell death. Some report a delayed response, some fast and some zero effect.

Replies

  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    Side effects from your first link:

    Ribose seems to be LIKELY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth for short-term use or when given intravenously (by IV) by a healthcare provider. It can cause some side effects including diarrhea, stomach discomfort, nausea, headache, and low blood sugar.

    There isn’t enough information about the safety of long-term use.

    So, definitely not for me. I'm wondering why anyone would take this without a physician's advice to do so.

    Just about everything looks good when compared to the SAD. So, don't eat the SAD and maybe supplements aren't needed.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Need2Ex your current cellular ribose levels may be just fine anyway.

    The below from one of the links at my age sounded interesting to me.

    "WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: D-RIBOSE

    Fatigue and exhaustion often occur as a result of depletion of the vital molecule called ATP in human muscle.

    Injured or heavily used muscle is particularly vulnerable to low ATP supply and is slow to recover those levels.

    A simple sugar molecule, D-ribose, is one of the key components of ATP. The more D-ribose that is available, the faster ATP levels return to normal.

    D-ribose supplementation has been shown to boost heart muscle function following heart attacks, and to improve blood pumping in people with congestive heart failure.

    Better heart muscle function after D-ribose supplementation can lead to better delivery of energy-rich blood to skeletal muscles, revving them up for increased activity.

    Increased ATP levels in skeletal muscle following D-ribose supplementation can help to reduce the muscle pain and fatigue that prevent people from keeping up their vital exercise regimens.

    Cardiologists and exercise physiologists are increasingly turning to D-ribose as a means of “rejuvenating” their patients’ cardiac and skeletal muscles and improving their quality of life."
  • rankinsect
    rankinsect Posts: 2,238 Member
    Well, your body certainly needs ribose - it is needed for the synthesis of DNA, RNA, cAMP, ATP, and other critically important biological molecules.

    I don't think there's likely need to supplement with it, though, since there are pathways in the body to convert glucose to ribose effectively, and everyone always has blood glucose to convert.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    It was news to me when after a heart attack the cells for a short will kind of going into hibernation before they just die. By mouth or IV some research indicates ribose has the potential to wake these cells from hibernation and become functional cells instead of just dying. I find the below from Dr. Myhill's site of interest.

    "Even when glucose supply is plentiful, production of D-ribose in the cell by the glucose pentose shunt is very slow.

    D-ribose as a nutritional supplement is therefore useful because it is immediately available for the generation of new ATP

    Because D-ribose is a simple sugar, it is extremely well absorbed. The clinical experience of cardiologists using D-ribose to treat heart failure due to mitochondrial failure is that it is very effective and free from side effects. The dose depends on the severity of the illness, but the clinical experience is that sufferers should be started on high doses and then it can be adjusted to a maintenance dose.

    Therefore I recommend that my CFS patients use 5 grams (1 scoop) three times a day. Effects should be seen within a few days. Whilst levels of energy improve and continue to improve then I recommend staying on 15 grams daily. At the point at which it levels off, experiment with lower maintenance doses. However, should the sufferer overdo things on a particular day then it is as well to take extra D-ribose in order to rescue the situation."

  • Unknown
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  • paulgads82
    paulgads82 Posts: 256 Member
    Oh joy, Sarah Myhill. As someone with ME/CFS (pick your name I don't care) I just love seeing her mentioned. She has a rather devoted and loyal following, from what I hear she is a very nice and compassionate doctor, but she seems to charge through the roof and has some very questionable views, not just on ME/CFS but vaccines and, well, the usual stuff. She has also developed some ATP profile test which is untested or peer reviewed or anything but you can pay for one of course. As for D-Ribose no idea, I was at a wedding on Saturday and had a glass of coke, it helped some of my symptoms and got me through the day, so I'm inclined to believe any effect D-Ribose has is little more than an energy boost you'd get from having any sugar. There are a wide range of supplements aimed at this illness and the price can build up, with only a slight improvement in symptoms, luckily I've never been suckered into spending the thousands that some have, either with Myhill or any of the others who offer various quack treatments. I'm rambling a little now but here's the TL:DR Myhill not that credible.
  • Need2Exerc1se
    Need2Exerc1se Posts: 13,575 Member
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Need2Ex your current cellular ribose levels may be just fine anyway.

    The below from one of the links at my age sounded interesting to me.

    Not sure what your age is but if you are experiencing a problem why not consult a physician for advice instead of the internet? And if you aren't experiencing problems then why try to fix something that isn't broken?
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Need2Exerc1se wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Need2Ex your current cellular ribose levels may be just fine anyway.

    The below from one of the links at my age sounded interesting to me.

    Not sure what your age is but if you are experiencing a problem why not consult a physician for advice instead of the internet? And if you aren't experiencing problems then why try to fix something that isn't broken?

    As you know I do not request or give advice by the way of social media. I am just researching supplements on the market today and their impact on humans. After having been off sugar and all forums of all grains for nearly two years all of my known health issues have resolved on their own as far as I know.

    Having a background from earning my OD degree back in 1986 from SCO in Memphis TN and studying the subject of human health on my own for over 40 years due to my Ankylosing Spondylitis I am just spending more time researching the health related literature. It is done with my family and others in mind.

    Two years ago when I was seriously considering starting Enbrel injections for muscle and joint pain I got to studying cancer prevention and cures from Europe and Asia which brought me back to the subject of using food for medicine. This seems to be especially productive for cancer, Type 2 Diabetes, stroke, Alzheimer's, heart attack, etc prevention or delaying.

    No one lives past 120 from the research I have read so death is in the future for us all. Where in my case it is soon or 50 years from now my personal goal is to be walking and talking until my death.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Jane it is the web. There are no credible sources to act on. It all is just for info. Even if there was a creditable source someone would call it other wise. You asked if I had a health issue I was trying to fix and I was trying cover why. I do agree with your disclaimer and that all making a post about what to or not to eat should be used by all posting on such subjects.

    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only. Patterns develop over time that aids in deciding what is worth exploring and what info to ignore.

    If you have read all the links in the OP you will see the sources were from mixed sources. I like WebMD even though they are greatly biased they are good at hitting the fear factor. If you ever watch and Rx meds ads on TV it seems the fear factor does not stop people from wanting the meds.
  • chocolate_owl
    chocolate_owl Posts: 1,695 Member
    It's generally accepted that scientific journals are credible sources. They present data and peer-reviewed methodology. They present their conclusions, but you're welcome to examine it critically and draw your own. If a media source or celebrity health guru references a study with their spin, you can and should go verify the study actually says what is claimed. Often, a sensational excerpt is taken out of context to generate hits or sell a product.

    You posted one scientific study. If I had fibromyalgia, I could act on this source by reading the study, trying to understand its limitations, and asking my doctor if this might be applicable to or beneficial for me. It doesn't mean I should self-medicate or do experiments on myself.
  • MissusMoon
    MissusMoon Posts: 1,900 Member
    It appears that it's time to post this again. I sincerely hope the OP will take the time to watch it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rnq1NpHdmw (NSFW language)
  • kgeyser
    kgeyser Posts: 22,505 Member
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only.
    Say, what? Why would you bother reading at all, then, if the quality of the info isn't of concern? <baffled>

    It's called exploratory research and is useful in creating one's own research design. You survey all the information currently available, not necessarily on the basis of validity, but to identify areas for further exploration. It's often done by researchers creating surveys to reduce potential blindspots by not asking the right questions, and therefore preventing them from collecting data that could be of use to them.
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    Jane it is the web. There are no credible sources to act on. It all is just for info. Even if there was a creditable source someone would call it other wise. You asked if I had a health issue I was trying to fix and I was trying cover why. I do agree with your disclaimer and that all making a post about what to or not to eat should be used by all posting on such subjects.

    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only. Patterns develop over time that aids in deciding what is worth exploring and what info to ignore.

    If you have read all the links in the OP you will see the sources were from mixed sources. I like WebMD even though they are greatly biased they are good at hitting the fear factor. If you ever watch and Rx meds ads on TV it seems the fear factor does not stop people from wanting the meds.


    I was not the one who asked if you have a health issue. I've read your other posts about your health and I'm glad you've been able to improve it.

    It wasn't my disclaimer, it's from one of the sites you linked. I would say that such a disclaimer is especially necessary for anyone who references their medical degree in a conversation about dietary supplements.

    The quality of the source absolutely matters. There are many sources whose #1 goal is to convince people to buy whatever they are selling or to promote themselves or their agenda. These are biased sources and can mislead people. I know you have good intentions and want to help others, but when you reference biased sources you risk doing more harm than good, and you harm your own reputation as a poster of reliable information that is worth reading.

    I did see your sources were mixed. But, did you mean to say that WebMD does a good job motivating people out of fear, or that you like it despite the "fear factor" that it hits?
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only.
    Say, what? Why would you bother reading at all, then, if the quality of the info isn't of concern? <baffled>

    It's called exploratory research and is useful in creating one's own research design. You survey all the information currently available, not necessarily on the basis of validity, but to identify areas for further exploration. It's often done by researchers creating surveys to reduce potential blindspots by not asking the right questions, and therefore preventing them from collecting data that could be of use to them.

    Well if Gale's 'research' is exploratory in nature as you seem to suggest, why does he only post links that support his point of view? That sounds more qualitative to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploratory_research

    TL;DR: You can't suck and blow at the same time. :)

    Charlie did you not realize you are one the Debate forum. :)

    You should know it is it is dangerous for one reading research to strongly hold to any one point of view. Today I hold no point of view when it comes to nutritional info that I will not change when other research or my n=1 research proves to me that I need to make a new decision based on new data.

    Some here state I am against people eating sugar and grains which is false. I eat next to no processed food which automatically cuts out major sources of sugar and grains (wheat starch for example).

    I am not in ketosis this evening because I had a double scoop of Lemon Ice from Culvers where my daughter worked along with a grilled chicken sandwich and gave the bun to my dog.

    Normally I am in a state of nutritional ketosis for pain management.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    Back to the subject of this D-Ribose sugar thread.

    To keep down cost I seldom do a ketone blood level test I just use the $15 alcohol breath analyzer to track my acetone levels as to where I am in nutritional ketosis or not.

    Last night when I got home I blew 0.041 and about 30 minutes after I dissolved 5 grams of D-Ribose sugar in my mouth I blew 0.030.

    Some question has been raised if the body uses the 5 carbon Ribose like it uses the 6 carbon sugars. That I still do not know but I do know in my body D-Ribose acts as just another carb in that I will decrease my ketone level.

    I have never taken more than 60 grams in one day because no research I have found used more than 60 grams daily over time.

    Dr. Myhill recommended dosage of 5 grams 3x daily seems to be the norm that other doctors also recommend.

    I can not detect if the D-Ribose sugar is doing anything for me and expect my recent weight loss after maintaining at 200 pounds for the last year on 2500 calories daily is due to the heat and my taste for fats greatly reduction.

    Some if the literature talks about the sugar causing a surge in Insulin but without causing a surge in glucose level which is while one with low glucose levels need to be aware of this apparent medical fact about D-Ribose sugar. I sense this myself but since I typically am in the 80-90's range it does not impact my balance in my case. If one was at 60 level of glucose that would be why one should only do it with a licensed health care professional.

    If one is interested in D-Ribose there is research out there to read. I notice reviews by Ribose users on Amazon are mixed and many contain no useful info when they just say it shipped fast.
  • paulgads82
    paulgads82 Posts: 256 Member
    I have an illness this is suggested for. I will not take it until I speak to my doctor nor would I on Myhill's advice. There is a huge debate about the validity of self report in CFS trials, both with pharmaceutical treatments (Rituximab) and behavioural (Graded Exercise Therapy) as well as supplements like D Ribose. Dr Myhill is just an individual private doctor and, unless something has changed, has never actually published anything. Although this isn't a discussion on CFS it's something I've had for 8 years so I've built up a knowledge base, Myhill is in it and she's not credible.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only.
    Say, what? Why would you bother reading at all, then, if the quality of the info isn't of concern? <baffled>

    It's called exploratory research and is useful in creating one's own research design. You survey all the information currently available, not necessarily on the basis of validity, but to identify areas for further exploration. It's often done by researchers creating surveys to reduce potential blindspots by not asking the right questions, and therefore preventing them from collecting data that could be of use to them.

    Well if Gale's 'research' is exploratory in nature as you seem to suggest, why does he only post links that support his point of view? That sounds more qualitative to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploratory_research

    TL;DR: You can't suck and blow at the same time. :)

    Charlie did you not realize you are one the Debate forum. :)

    How is a list of unreviewed or vetted links a "debate" topic? I just don't understand. You also ask:
    If someone personal experience of any kind with D-Ribose or have studied the subject I would be interested in hearing them. Others feel free to post as well.

    This seems more appropriate to the general health questions topic, and putting it in debate may be why people (including me) were reading it as an argument for using d-ribose or a kind of recommendation.

    I wonder if it would be useful to have a thread in this topic to discuss (or debate) the kinds of threads that ought to be started here, vs. the other sections. (Obviously some get moved because they develop into debate.)
  • JaneSnowe
    JaneSnowe Posts: 1,283 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    kgeyser wrote: »
    snickerscharlie wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    When doing research on any subject the quality of the source is not a concern when reading for info only.
    Say, what? Why would you bother reading at all, then, if the quality of the info isn't of concern? <baffled>

    It's called exploratory research and is useful in creating one's own research design. You survey all the information currently available, not necessarily on the basis of validity, but to identify areas for further exploration. It's often done by researchers creating surveys to reduce potential blindspots by not asking the right questions, and therefore preventing them from collecting data that could be of use to them.

    Well if Gale's 'research' is exploratory in nature as you seem to suggest, why does he only post links that support his point of view? That sounds more qualitative to me.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploratory_research

    TL;DR: You can't suck and blow at the same time. :)

    Charlie did you not realize you are one the Debate forum. :)

    How is a list of unreviewed or vetted links a "debate" topic? I just don't understand. You also ask:
    If someone personal experience of any kind with D-Ribose or have studied the subject I would be interested in hearing them. Others feel free to post as well.

    This seems more appropriate to the general health questions topic, and putting it in debate may be why people (including me) were reading it as an argument for using d-ribose or a kind of recommendation.

    I wonder if it would be useful to have a thread in this topic to discuss (or debate) the kinds of threads that ought to be started here, vs. the other sections. (Obviously some get moved because they develop into debate.)



    This is a good idea, but I think people would still start whatever threads they want here. :/
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,159 Member
    After eating one kilo of D-Ribose 5 carbon sugar over the last four weeks I have lost about 8 pounds but I can not say it was due to D-Ribose or not. At the same time I started eating this new carb source I cut way back on fats for some reason. I ate between 15-60 grams of D-Ribose most days.

    I am not sure if it helped me in anyway. About the same time I started eating more whole carbs as well so basically I have been out of the state of nutritional ketosis for about one month while losing this weight.

    I had some return of joint and muscle pain and my softer skin has hardened up some with some dermatitis like skin patches.

    Going forward I may use 5 grams each morning for heart health prevention and will be keeping my daily carbs < 50 grams so I can stay in nutritional ketosis. I have one people testing it for chronic fatigue.

    It is strange in how it seems to cause an Insulin spike but yet no glucose spike like regular 6-carbon sugar.

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