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Fasting to correct autoimmune diseases??
Replies
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AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHH
This is my well - thought out and reasoned response to the entire concept of fasting to cure an autoimmune disease.
I am pulling my hair out and banging my head against the wall quietly muttering "No.... No.... Just.... No"5 -
I think evidence points to fasting helping people with autoimmune diseases vs improving your immune system and worsening your auto immune disease.
The first study is recent and is pretty interesting. The second journal article is a review of existing studies.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27239035
Abstract
Dietary interventions have not been effective in the treatment of multiple sclerosis (MS). Here, we show that periodic 3-day cycles of a fasting mimicking diet (FMD) are effective in ameliorating demyelination and symptoms in a murine experimental autoimmune encephalomyelitis (EAE) model. The FMD reduced clinical severity in all mice and completely reversed symptoms in 20% of animals. These improvements were associated with increased corticosterone levels and regulatory T (Treg) cell numbers and reduced levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines, TH1 and TH17 cells, and antigen-presenting cells (APCs). Moreover, the FMD promoted oligodendrocyte precursor cell regeneration and remyelination in axons in both EAE and cuprizone MS models, supporting its effects on both suppression of autoimmunity and remyelination. We also report preliminary data suggesting that an FMD or a chronic ketogenic diet are safe, feasible, and potentially effective in the treatment of relapsing-remitting multiple sclerosis (RRMS) patients (NCT01538355).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24434759
Abstract
Periods of deliberate fasting with restriction of solid food intake are practiced worldwide, mostly based on traditional, cultural or religious reasons. There is large empirical and observational evidence that medically supervised modified fasting (fasting cure, 200-500 kcal nutritional intake per day) with periods of 7-21 days is efficacious in the treatment of rheumatic diseases, chronic pain syndromes, hypertension, and metabolic syndrome. The beneficial effects of fasting followed by vegetarian diet in rheumatoid arthritis are confirmed by randomized controlled trials. Further beneficial effects of fasting are supported by observational data and abundant evidence from experimental research which found caloric restriction and intermittent fasting being associated with deceleration or prevention of most chronic degenerative and chronic inflammatory diseases. Intermittent fasting may also be useful as an accompanying treatment during chemotherapy of cancer. A further beneficial effect of fasting relates to improvements in sustainable lifestyle modification and adoption of a healthy diet, possibly mediated by fasting-induced mood enhancement. Various identified mechanisms of fasting point to its potential health-promoting effects, e.g., fasting-induced neuroendocrine activation and hormetic stress response, increased production of neurotrophic factors, reduced mitochondrial oxidative stress, general decrease of signals associated with aging, and promotion of autophagy. Fasting therapy might contribute to the prevention and treatment of chronic diseases and should be further evaluated in controlled clinical trials and observational studies.
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Lots of confusion here. A 3-day fast works by stimulating production of a variety of proteins that are not typically expressed (FOXO for example) which results in accelerated autophagy and increased cell proliferation (following reintroduction of food). Basically, your body breaks down old/weak/damaged cells, and then when you start eating again produces a bunch of new healthy cells. Research is still emerging on this topic, but there is enough evidence to suggest that a 72-hour fast every 6-12 months can help with general health.
Honestly, fasting for 72 hours is not any harder than fasting for 24 hours... once you make it past the first day the physiological hunger goes away. If you have issues with shorter fasts, that is generally a sign of impaired glucose metabolism (e.g. prediabetes). You may want to look into intermittent fasting for a bit until that normalizes before trying a longer fast.4 -
Eat healthy. Follow your doctors advice. The Internet is full of dangerous and unhelpful opinions and advice.4
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TannedTiger wrote: »I have been fasting for 8 days, (sunrise to sunset, no water either) and I seem to be doing fine. I lost 6lbs, even though I don't want to lose weight.
Which AI illness do you have?0 -
TannedTiger wrote: »I have been fasting for 8 days, (sunrise to sunset, no water either) and I seem to be doing fine. I lost 6lbs, even though I don't want to lose weight.
I don't think that's the fasting they are talking about. It sounds more like it is a complete fast.1 -
I also have alopecia (areata, though at one point I did have totalis and then got regrowth with DCP treatment) and occasionally I do intermittent fasting. It hasn't helped. I also have ITP, where my immune system attacks my blood platelets. Thankfully I had a course of rituximab in January 2015 and my platelets have been at normal levels ever since, though my AA is still active. I don't personally believe a fast would help with something that is in our genetics. Even if it temporarily helps, new cells would still have your genes, and still attack the follicles.4
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TannedTiger wrote: »I have been fasting for 8 days, (sunrise to sunset, no water either) and I seem to be doing fine. I lost 6lbs, even though I don't want to lose weight.
Oh, Ramadan cures autoimmune diseases?
Interesting...6 -
MarziPanda95 wrote: »I also have alopecia (areata, though at one point I did have totalis and then got regrowth with DCP treatment) and occasionally I do intermittent fasting. It hasn't helped. I also have ITP, where my immune system attacks my blood platelets. Thankfully I had a course of rituximab in January 2015 and my platelets have been at normal levels ever since, though my AA is still active. I don't personally believe a fast would help with something that is in our genetics. Even if it temporarily helps, new cells would still have your genes, and still attack the follicles.
I have no strong convictions about fasting and auto immune diseases, but I might argue that just because AI is genetic does not mean that a fast couldn't significantly reduce symptoms. Many people suffer "bouts" of increased activity. Maybe something is triggering that increased activity. It doesn't seem impossible that something like periodic fasting could prevent it being triggered, shorten the duration or lessen the severity.
"Cure" doesn't seem like a word you could use here. Even the phrase "completely reversed symptoms in 20% of animals" raised my eyebrows. Reducing symptoms alone is interesting enough.
Btw, sorry that IF hasn't helped you. The journal articles I posted spoke of RA and MS only. Still, if it were me, I would consider trying the 3-day FMD stuff (lower calories and especially lower protein). Perhaps there is a difference between your version of IF and this 3-day FMD.
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You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.
My beef with the above statement is, it is untrue. We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP. It was a long 6yrs but we did it and I have no issue giving full credit to the natural doctors that helped us and the unbelievable amount of work it was to manage diets to make it happen (practically living in the kitchen). AI's can be healed. Given what it needs, the body was created to heal. To each his own, but I'm happy we're on the other side. And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction. If it doesn't work for them, then so be it. But they have the right to explore, research, and try just as those who wish to try whatever drugs are offered to them do.
On the issue of fasting for resetting the immune system I don't really have an opinion as we haven't tried it specifically for that (we've done 24hr fasts for other reasons). A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing. Who knows? And they don't really care. Whatever works........
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »You can't heal autoimmune. That's why "visiting numerous doctors" hasn't helped.
My beef with the above statement is, it is untrue. We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP. It was a long 6yrs but we did it and I have no issue giving full credit to the natural doctors that helped us and the unbelievable amount of work it was to manage diets to make it happen (practically living in the kitchen). AI's can be healed. Given what it needs, the body was created to heal. To each his own, but I'm happy we're on the other side. And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction. If it doesn't work for them, then so be it. But they have the right to explore, research, and try just as those who wish to try whatever drugs are offered to them do.
On the issue of fasting for resetting the immune system I don't really have an opinion as we haven't tried it specifically for that (we've done 24hr fasts for other reasons). A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing. Who knows? And they don't really care. Whatever works........
@ronjsteele I'm curious what was done to treat ITP. I also have ITP, and it has been under control (thankfully) for 25 years now because my spleen was removed, but I am very curious what you did to reverse it.
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Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.2
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It's dangerous to tell people that they should just change their diet and stop drugs to "cure" autoimmune diseases. That doesn't work for people with severe forms of AI. i would be dead without meds. No amount of natural products could help my intestines. Also type 1 diabetes is autoimmune. I don't think it is wise for them to stop their insulin3
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Science doesn't work that way. It's a process, and over time many studies are rejected or superseded by other studies. Over and over again I see a study cited here or in the media as "proving" something, but what most people don't seem to understand is that a single study doesn't "prove" anything. That's not at all how science works.
If you're looking for medical advice or confirmation in forums like this one, you're asking for trouble. Research things online, but ask your doctors about what you find. I question my doctors all the time but realize that ultimately they're the ones who have made a formal study of medicine and who are up to date on the most recent research. And if questioning shows they don't keep up with the latest research, they're not going to remain my doctors.
I believe giving medical advice is a violation of the terms of service here, by the way.1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »It's dangerous to tell people that they should just change their diet and stop drugs to "cure" autoimmune diseases. That doesn't work for people with severe forms of AI. i would be dead without meds. No amount of natural products could help my intestines. Also type 1 diabetes is autoimmune. I don't think it is wise for them to stop their insulin
I never told anyone to stop their drugs or just change their diet for their AI's. Sometimes it takes using them for years while the body goes through a healing process. I had to do both for a long time. And yes, type 1 is a different story. I do believe if caught early enough it can be stopped or slowed, but not completely reversed. I think the majority of AI's are fixable - but there is at least one exception (I would put type 1 diabetes in that realm).
BTW, it was Hippocrates, the father of modern medicine, that said, "let your food be thy medicine and thy medicine thy food."3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.
We'll just have to politely agree to disagree. And it is NEVER one thing that does it. Every person is different and everyone (literally) will require different routines and protocols to make it happen. That's part of what makes it so difficult. Medicine likes to do everything *mostly* (note I did not say exactly) the same person to person. "You have 'x', we give you 'y' for that." No two people are the same and no two people will ever need the same routine.
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Well the scientific world and I disagree with you too. Heck I was on tpn and npo and that didn't help. Lots of kids with IBD are on feeding tubes for years and npo without being cured. I guess we just aren't trying hard enough.2
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Again you are flat-out wrong. Autoimmune conditions can't be healed. Some can go into remission but never healed. Please provide some proof that any AI disorder can cured. My guess is youll have some excuse as to why you can't.ronjsteele1 wrote: »
Sorry this is just not true. My guess is the quacks you so deparately love misdiagnosed you. Neither can be cured. ITP in a child can clear up on its own, in adults the best you can hope for is remission. IC can't be cured either. If this was true your quack would have a Nobel prize.We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP.
No. They. Can't.AI's can be healed.
Citations please. But we know you won't produce one, you never do. Again you'll have some excuse why don't
Sorry untreated AI disease can't be fatal. So I will discourage anyone from going down the rabbit hole of "natural" medicine.And please don't discourage others who are working in that direction.
Probably just went into remission on its own and has nothing to do with diet or natural treatments.A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing.
They should, it's their sons life they really playing games with.And they don't really care.2 -
My untreated at the time Crohn's at the time almost killed me and I was very into fitness and eating clean when that happened3
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ronjsteele1 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »Remission yes, cured no. You should tell your cure to researchers as haven't found it yet.
We'll just have to politely agree to disagree. And it is NEVER one thing that does it. Every person is different and everyone (literally) will require different routines and protocols to make it happen. That's part of what makes it so difficult. Medicine likes to do everything *mostly* (note I did not say exactly) the same person to person. "You have 'x', we give you 'y' for that." No two people are the same and no two people will ever need the same routine.
This statement alone just about proves you have absolutely no idea how the human body, biology, science and research work.4 -
I don't think I know any two people on the exact same treatment plan. It is individualized0
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There is no cure for auto immune diseases, but proper medical treatment can help control the symptoms. A lot of people are being misled by snake oil salesmen and being fed this idea of the perfect diet that will "get them off medications". Getting off medications has become this weird holy grail elite status when the real goal should be feeling better and living a full life. For some people this is only possible with medication and there is no shame in that.6
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seekingdaintiness wrote: »There is no cure for auto immune diseases, but proper medical treatment can help control the symptoms. A lot of people are being misled by snake oil salesmen and being fed this idea of the perfect diet that will "get them off medications". Getting off medications has become this weird holy grail elite status when the real goal should be feeling better and living a full life. For some people this is only possible with medication and there is no shame in that.
+1!!!
I do know people who have mild versions of AI diseases who can achieve remission from diet alone though the damage can eventually catch up to them. I don't know anyone with severe disease able to control it by diet. It is annoying when people come around with their holier than thou attitude that they are better than those of us who can't get off meds0 -
Sorry this is just not true. My guess is the quacks you so deparately love misdiagnosed you. Neither can be cured. ITP in a child can clear up on its own, in adults the best you can hope for is remission. IC can't be cured either. If this was true your quack would have a Nobel prize.We've had two autoimmune diseases in my home and both have been completely healed. Neither with drugs. IC and ITP.
Probably just went into remission on its own and has nothing to do with diet or natural treatments.A close friend's son has JRA and his rheumatologist just this week told them they know (but don't understand why) that short term fasting *can* (not always) be helpful in modulating the immune system. In their case (they had an unintended "fast" due to illness) it actually did work for him. He's now been 10 weeks without methotrexate for the first time in 7 years. And it could be a combination of the not being able to eat for 3 days and/or all the natural treatments they've been doing.
Really? 14yrs of IC and I didn't know that's what I had? Everyone that saw me for 14yrs misdiagnosed me? Wow. You think even less of the medical community then I do. You're a *kitten*. Plain and simple. And no, my child's ITP did not go away on it's own. He was refractory to all treatments and they had no hope or plan for him. They were happy to offer rituxin, splenectomy (which is rarely done anymore), nplate, or pramacta (now available for kids). We chose not to go there. If others do/have, then good on them. Our method worked and is still working and I don't discourage others from trying it. And BTW, I've been around the ITP community a long time and it's a complete and absolute lie that kids normally go into remission on their own. You probably need to hang around a bit more. Doctors love to say that but the real world experience of parents is that it's not true. Especially these days.
No, my friend's son still has JRA. It did not go into remission. What I said was he was able to go without the methotrexate for the last 10 weeks. Do you not read, or do you just like to see what you think someone says? The accidental fasting clearly made a difference - EVEN HIS DOCTOR SAID SO.
You can believe what you want. But we worked our *kitten* off this past 6yrs to heal bodies in our family. You can believe and do whatever you like. But you are dead wrong to discourage anyone else from trying what they want to. I'm not telling anyone not to do their drugs and follow their doctors. I'm just telling them there are other options. What are you afraid of? That one of those options might work for someone and you'll look like an idiot?
I do not know why I even engage you idiots. Except that I feel for the one person that may be searching for answers like we were and one lone voice said, "have you tried this? Or looked into this?" It sent me searching and it was worth it.
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But you are claiming there is a cure when there is no cure. It's irresponsible go around saying that. If you are not having symptoms it doesn't mean you are cured3
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There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S02715317120018201 -
lithezebra wrote: »There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531712001820
IF and complete fasting are completely different things.2 -
Many here will tell you that that there isn't a connection between food and autoimmune diseases and they are wrong. If you are able to speak and understand other languages beside English, go to countries in Europe and read up on it. There is proof, there is lots of proof!
I have an autoimmune disorder myself and, like you, I was desperate to get better. I didn't want to take all these medications. Plaquenil, Prednisone, Methotrexate to name a few. I watched a movie on Netflix called "Sick fat and nearly dead," and some of it makes sense. This guy fasted for 60 days, drunk juices only and tried to heal his disease. I have to work, so it was out of the question.
While we cannot heal our disease -yet- you can heal your gut. Many believe that any autoimmune disorder is caused by a leaky gut (look up leaky guts syndrome).That makes so much sense. Nobody knows what really causes autoimmune disorders, so they really can't tell you what to do, they will just put you on heavy medications.
A leaky gut, that makes sense to me. For many years I ate and drunk everything that didn't eat me first. Alcohol, processed food, GMO manipulated food, fast food...a long list.
I looked further into in and found doctors here in the U.S. who also believes that some foods cause the inflammation. I can send you the link if you are interested.
Many will just try to make money and will try to sell you a "book" or a program. Don't be fooled...there is no easy fix. There is no magic wand. It will take time and discipline.
I juiced for 10 days and I was pain free...but also hungry. Fasting is a quick relief when you have a bad flare, but only a temporary fix. Fast for a few days and then start an elimination diet. Add food to your diet, wait 48 hours and when nothing happens add the next. It takes time but it is worth it. Any elimination diet starts with some sort of fasting for at least 2 days.
We all are different, what works for me, might not work for you and vice versa. You will have to live a very disciplined life style after you will be in remission.
I don't eat chicken, eggs or any dairy products, because I react badly to all of it. I gave up coffee, hardly eat sugar and don't touch sodas. (Hard to believe I got fat right?) It's not that hard, food that causes you pain won't be attractive anymore.
I don't take any medications other then an OTC painkiller now and then and a bunch of supplements. However, one chicken salad or egg whites and I am in agony.
I am not sure if I am allowed to add links here, but you can send me a message and will share my "wisdom" with you.
Please, just remember. Nobody knows anything about autoimmune disorders, you know as much as your doctor. No cure -so they say. Whatever feels good to you and makes sense, do it...don't listen to others. This is your life, your body and your healthy.5 -
singingflutelady wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »There is support in the medical literature for the idea that fasting can have beneficial effects on autoimmune diseases. That doesn't mean it's a cure, only that it might be a tool for managing your condition. You should read up on your specific condition in peer reviewed literature. Here's one, general example, not intended to prove anything.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531712001820
IF and complete fasting are completely different things.
How are you defining complete fasting? People do IF in a variety of ways, including periods of complete fasting lasting for at least a day. It doesn't matter anyway. I suggested that the OP search the literature for her own information, not just for one paper that restricts itself to fasting for Ramadan.0
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