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Orthorexia
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »Meh, I think it's much less a concern than the millions of people killing themselves with piles of crap.
Unless you happen to have it.12 -
Suppose someone has all of the behavioral aspects of orthorexia but is actually not doing any physical harm, and only minimal aspects of mental health overall being affected. Is it really orthoexia/an ED?0
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ForecasterJason wrote: »Suppose someone has all of the behavioral aspects of orthorexia but is actually not doing any physical harm, and only minimal aspects of mental health overall being affected. Is it really orthoexia/an ED?
I believe that if it isn't doing physical harm and is not obsessive to the point it adversely affects your day to day life, then it is not "orthorexia". EDs cause serious physical and emotional harm. So if you are passionately interested in eating healthy, and maybe sometimes your friends think you're a pain in the butt about it, but you don't avoid social situations just to avoid temptation or you don't suffer health issues due to a limited diet, then you are just a healthy eater. To be orthorexia it needs to be an "obsession".5 -
I like that explanation.ForecasterJason wrote: »Suppose someone has all of the behavioral aspects of orthorexia but is actually not doing any physical harm, and only minimal aspects of mental health overall being affected. Is it really orthoexia/an ED?
I believe that if it isn't doing physical harm and is not obsessive to the point it adversely affects your day to day life, then it is not "orthorexia". EDs cause serious physical and emotional harm. So if you are passionately interested in eating healthy, and maybe sometimes your friends think you're a pain in the butt about it, but you don't avoid social situations just to avoid temptation or you don't suffer health issues due to a limited diet, then you are just a healthy eater. To be orthorexia it needs to be an "obsession".
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VintageFeline wrote: »What's wrong with saying you can get a little obsessive about things? Since when did we need to use real or as yet not added to the DSM of real conditions (probably just a matter of time) to describe our behaviours? And this only happens with mental illnesses. And yes I'm more sensitive to it than most but that's because I have a diagnosis and when people use that diagnosis in casual language to describe behaviours on the spectrum of normal it's frankly insulting.
Because the DSM doesn't rule language or it's use. Historically is has been politically manipulated and still contains errors and omissions that are constantly challenged.
A diagnosis is not a fixed thing - disorders come in a variety of intensities, flavours and manifestations. If you get upset, and you want to "own" your disorder and render it exclusive from the casual use of language, it is possibly something you need to deal with internally - because the idea that one is going to be able to censure societies use of clinical terms to describe either nascent or observable "normal" behaviour is is probably not the best coping mechanism.
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NorthCascades wrote: »
"Things not in the DSM" hasn't prevented doctors from diagnosis. We have EDNOS classification.
Eating Disorder Not Otherwise Specified.
It is, clinically speaking, one of the most used classifications (over 50% of ED diagnosis in the US) because many ED observed in patients do not fall into the neat classification categories or hit one or more exclusion categories. Or overlap.
NB: "We" is used as society here, not to suggest I am a doctor.2 -
I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?0
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I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Except OCD is different... By that logic Anorexia Nervosa would be OCD.1 -
I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
What's an excuse? There's literally nothing in the diagnosis that would vilify a healthy lifestyle. Obsession is an unhealthy lifestyle. Mental health is just as important.4 -
I would say someone like Freelee is a great example.4
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I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
So having a mental breakdown in a restaurant because you don't know the exact macro composition of the food is a healthy lifestyle?
Only eating Kashi products, organic fruit and veggies, and drinking organic wine while not addressing fat or protein needs is a healthy lifestyle?
Being scared to eat fruits and veggies because of pesticides is a healthy lifestyle?
Orthorexia is not about being healthy as we understand it; it's about having strict criteria for food to be able to feel safe consuming it and avoiding anything that doesn't meet that criteria. At its worst, it can lead to malnourishment and social isolation.11 -
If youthiosulfate wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Except OCD is different... By that logic Anorexia Nervosa would be OCD.
Anorexia is related to OCD.0 -
I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.3 -
I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.3 -
lithezebra wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.
People who would be considered orthorexic tend to cut out a lot of different food types at once, so the total affect causes nutritional deficiencies. I'm sorry if I didn't finish that thought. And there are people who won't eat fruit or most vegetables because they are avoiding "sugar", in other words cutting out too many healthy foods because they are taking a reasonable idea too far. That's what makes it an ED.
I don't understand why you are saying what you do, did someone say you have an ED?1 -
lithezebra wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.
Then you don't have it. Well done.6 -
lithezebra wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.
People who would be considered orthorexic tend to cut out a lot of different food types at once, so the total affect causes nutritional deficiencies. I'm sorry if I didn't finish that thought. And there are people who won't eat fruit or most vegetables because they are avoiding "sugar", in other words cutting out too many healthy foods because they are taking a reasonable idea too far. That's what makes it an ED.
I don't understand why you are saying what you do, did someone say you have an ED?
I'm saying that you can be on a restrictive diet, even one that cuts out fruit and vegetables, without being orthorexic. People can have medical reasons for not eating vegetables. I think that avoiding social situations might be a flag for orthorexia, though I admit that someone having trouble sticking to a diet for diabetes, for celiac disease, or for a seizure disorder might find it easier not to be in situations where a lot of forbidden foods are staring them in the face.0 -
lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.
People who would be considered orthorexic tend to cut out a lot of different food types at once, so the total affect causes nutritional deficiencies. I'm sorry if I didn't finish that thought. And there are people who won't eat fruit or most vegetables because they are avoiding "sugar", in other words cutting out too many healthy foods because they are taking a reasonable idea too far. That's what makes it an ED.
I don't understand why you are saying what you do, did someone say you have an ED?
I'm saying that you can be on a restrictive diet, even one that cuts out fruit and vegetables, without being orthorexic. People can have medical reasons for not eating vegetables. I think that avoiding social situations might be a flag for orthorexia, though I admit that someone having trouble sticking to a diet for diabetes, for celiac disease, or for a seizure disorder might find it easier not to be in situations where a lot of forbidden foods are staring them in the face.
Well, yeah, if you have a medical reason for being on a restrictive diet, then it doesn't mean you have an ED, it means you have a medical concern. I'm sorry, I thought that went without saying.2 -
CattOfTheGarage wrote: »Yes I agree, from all I've read about mental health, that is generally the threshold. You can be as weird as you like, but are you functional? Able to get on with day to day life and cope with ordinary circumstances? Yes? Then you don't have a disorder.
I do wonder about this need for everything to be specifically diagnosed, and I agree it probably has more to do with insurance company paperwork than medical benefit. There certainly doesn't seem to be the same drive to diagnose here, where funding is not subject to insurance approval. I would say I suffer from anxiety, for example, and I am on medication for it, but I have not been diagnosed with Generalised Anxiety Disorder or anything like that - the doctor just noted my symptoms and said I could try this medication to see if it would help.
As for orthorexia, I believe it is a type of OCD (as is anorexia) and since it lacks the immediate danger of death associated with anorexia, and its effects are more similar to regular OCD, I can understand why it doesn't have its own category. If someone needs treated for it, can't they just be diagnosed with OCD?
OCD is not an eating disorder. OCD by diagnostic criteria is an intrusive, unwanted, ego-dystonic thought (obsession) and a behavior that the person does to reduce the fear/anxiety caused by that thought (compulsion). It does not have to do with body image, weight, etc. While some other disorders can carry over and present as similar to OCD, it's really about the intrusive nature of the obsessions.2 -
lithezebra wrote: »lithezebra wrote: »I think it's an excuse to order a Big Mac and large fries and to sit on the couch watching TV for hours. If there really is an obsession, it should be considered OCD. There's no reason to vilify a healthy lifestyle unless you're trying to avoid putting in the work. Yeah, there's an extreme, but what's next? Are we going to label ex-smokers who can't stand to be around cigarette smoke? Former alcoholics who refuse to be in situations that involve alcohol?
Unfortunately, some people will avoid all social situations, because they will only eat whole foods they prepare themselves. They stop going to family holiday celebrations. They become obsessively fearful that people they care about are going to get diabetes or cancer because they eat processed foods. They start missing work because they exercise for hours a day. They start exhibiting signs of nutritional deficiencies due to cutting all grains or all "sugars" or some other food out of their diet. The point is they go so far trying to be healthy, they become unhealthy.
I don't avoid social situations. I take my own food. And there's nothing unhealthy about cutting out sugar and grains, which contain nothing and little, respectively, in the way of nutrients, other than calories.
People who would be considered orthorexic tend to cut out a lot of different food types at once, so the total affect causes nutritional deficiencies. I'm sorry if I didn't finish that thought. And there are people who won't eat fruit or most vegetables because they are avoiding "sugar", in other words cutting out too many healthy foods because they are taking a reasonable idea too far. That's what makes it an ED.
I don't understand why you are saying what you do, did someone say you have an ED?
I'm saying that you can be on a restrictive diet, even one that cuts out fruit and vegetables, without being orthorexic. People can have medical reasons for not eating vegetables. I think that avoiding social situations might be a flag for orthorexia, though I admit that someone having trouble sticking to a diet for diabetes, for celiac disease, or for a seizure disorder might find it easier not to be in situations where a lot of forbidden foods are staring them in the face.
Well, yeah, if you have a medical reason for being on a restrictive diet, then it doesn't mean you have an ED, it means you have a medical concern. I'm sorry, I thought that went without saying.
It should go without saying, but people diminish and misinterpret unseen medical conditions all the time.1
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